Anger is an expression of care - and hope. When one has given up hope there is no anger or protest. Connecting with all of it. The anger and pain and unmet need that gives rise to the anger must all be experienced and expressed. Fascinating conversation.

Fantastic conversation. I love all the layers!

This was outstanding, and it was a privilege to hear you two in discussion. Aspasia’s point on how anxiety pushes down while anger pushes up, and how anxiety and anger can then collide and cause all sorts of trouble when we don’t have a healthy understanding about anger-that was really powerful. I also really appreciated you, Michael, sharing your story, which really brought out the importance of conversations like this one. I agree that anger brings out this Gordian knot of emotions that we can’t easily name, leading to us wanting to pretend like we don’t feel the anger, which leads to trouble. My mind keeps orbiting anger as some kind of revelation about how we can motivate ourselves so suddenly and powerfully from out of nowhere; in anger, we feel like we can do anything (for bad). A good form of this can be seen in drive, when we feel like we can do anything (for good, for overcoming, etc.). My mind keeps orbiting that…I also really felt when Aspasia was speaking how the ability to “just notice the feeling” of anger is basically a superpower at the heat of human agency. Again, thank you both for this discussion and space. It was wonderful.

This was such a wonderful discussion, and South Africa is near and dear to our heart! I love what Amelia said about being “too naïve to be careful but too cautious to be dumb”-that’s a great orientation to life! I also loved the reflections on music and “just being in the sound.” Wonderful from you both!

Thank you for sharing your experience Michael. I also have these conflicting parts. I'm curious if and how they were present for the recording of this video?