if i decide to use a optic plate, can you use the iron sights that come stock on the slide or will it be too low?
@jonmichael1974Ай бұрын
Without the plate I've got ~ lower 1/3 cowitness. With a plate I would *guess* you'll see the top of your front sight. Not sure about the rear sight.
@ubreakitirepairit35693 ай бұрын
It's interesting how people call this hacking up their slide as if they'll ever see those milled down lugs again. Once that optic is installed, it should never have any reason to be taken off.
@tyanunzio3 ай бұрын
Is there really no optic that fits a non cut slide??
@GranTigerGaming2 ай бұрын
There are many optics that fit without modifying, Vortex defender CCW is a great option, roughly $200 USD, direct mounts with no adapter, has full co-witness. Some other options are shield rmsc, and crimson trace 1550, but I think the vortex is better of these options. I like Holosun, its a bummer they use a "modified" footprint that ALMOST fits, I would prefer a 507k ACSS vulcan but I prefer direct mount without modifying, so the Vortex CCW is the best option I found.
@moechawki72515 ай бұрын
Did this to my HCP. Looks great 👍
@brucecook5026 ай бұрын
This is an uneducated opinion here, I am for the first time here soon going to put an optic on one of my handguns and I have been doing lots of research on optics, optic plates, and all sorts of related stuff and my question is, instead of grinding those posts off the slide, couldn't it be possible to just drill holes deep enough on the underside of the optic itself so you could take advantage of all four mounting posts on the slide? Like I said, my suggestion is an uneducated opinion because I have never had an optic before, but I just thought it would make more sense to do the modification on your optic rather than your more expensive gun itself, or would it cause damage to the optic? I would have guess if the bottom of the optic is thick enough to have holes on the front, wouldn't it be thick enough to do the same on the back so you don't have to modify your slide?
@jonmichael19746 ай бұрын
I asked Holosun this question. Their response was two-fold: 1. It will break the waterproof seal. 2. They cannot tell you where any electronics are located and would therefore in all likelihood break the optic.
@brucecook5026 ай бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 oh damn, that sucks. Well anyways thanks for the response 🙂
@dans64767 ай бұрын
Does it co witness with the irons?
@jonmichael19747 ай бұрын
Yes. ~ Lower 1/3.
@dans64767 ай бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 Excellent, Thanks for the input. Buying a hellcat pro shortly
@galnadjar2 ай бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 do you mean u have 1/3 of the front exposed or 1/3 hidden
@jonmichael19742 ай бұрын
@@galnadjar it means that you can see the iron sights through the lower 1/3 of the optic window.
@ele10177 ай бұрын
I would like to do this but I’m afraid of the possible rust raw metal exposed
@jonmichael19747 ай бұрын
No rust for me after ~ 3 years. I also don't take the Hellcat on underwater missions. :-) If you're concerned there are plenty of products you could dab on when you're done (nail polish, Rustoleum, etc.)
@stephenboldrey99738 ай бұрын
If your putting the plate on under the optic why mill anything out . The plate correct’s everything . If you want the sight to cowitness. Better just get the replacement sights for the suppressor height sights . No hacking up your gun is required that way
@jonmichael19748 ай бұрын
If you're using a plate you don't need to mill the lugs, nor should you. However, your optic will sit higher because of the plate. Therefore your factory irons will not cowitness. With the flush mount and the 507k I have roughly a lower 1/3 cowitness. So with a plate, you won't have backup irons or you'll be buying taller ones (NightFision is a great option).
@jeffburch59039 ай бұрын
This may be a stupid question, but here goes, why not mill the mrd instead?
@jonmichael19749 ай бұрын
I actually asked Holosun this before, I started. They gave me 2 answers. 1. You will break the waterproof seal. 2. Some electronics will likely get damaged if you cut into the optic. Obviously, I couldn't risk the success of an underwater mission because the optic on my Hellcat failed. 😉
@jeffburch59039 ай бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 4 posts are better than 2. 1 or both of these manufacturers are assholes for not collaborating on a standard. All of them. Plates are crap. They all piss me me off. I'm not cutting up my gun. I refuse to use a plate.
@truthtalker777411 ай бұрын
Nice video. Well done. What is the real benefit of co witness? Doesn't it make the irons a distraction from the red dot?
@jonmichael197411 ай бұрын
It's not a distraction for me. I actually prefer it and the dot generally sits above the front sight. You can kill the dot; still practice with irons, and on the off-chance your dot fails, they're there for you. Personally the only thing I ever found distracting was a green dot, b/c my tritium irons glow green.
@matthewblocher6315 Жыл бұрын
So I got the rear lugs flush, left the front ones alone because if I hold the optic on the slide, there is 0% light coming through. However, once I torque down the screws, there is the tiniest bit of light coming through - maybe the height of a piece of paper. If I back the screws out, the front is again perfectly flush. Is this gap anything to worry about?
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure about that one, but if I had to guess it's probably because you left the front lugs alone. Personally, I'd want it flush.
@kevin86670 Жыл бұрын
Did this on my xd osp for the 407k and the screws won’t work that come with it. One set to short and other set to long
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
And the right size is nearly impossible to find. I spent WAY too much time rooting through all the bins at Ace Hardware :-) The best thing to do is find a nut that fits, put it on the longer screw so only a few threads show at the bottom and then cut it off and grind it smooth. Without the nut on there it's easy to take too much off or end up with an angle that won't let you thread it.
@kevin86670 Жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 thanks for the info
@matthewblocher6315 Жыл бұрын
per Calculated Kinetics, right is 8.75mm, left is 10mm - they will sell you a set.
@JesseWalker-ti2qp2 ай бұрын
@@matthewblocher6315I have questions regarding these numbers. Not saying there wrong what so ever. But how did you come up with the numbers.
@gsj0810 Жыл бұрын
I want to do mine as well...do you regret it?
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
Nope. Not even a little bit. Still holding zero. Factory sights cowitness. Got the no-plate footprint I wanted.
@gsj0810 Жыл бұрын
I really want the co witness improved from my plate. Thanks for the how to because I will do mine this weekend
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
@@gsj0810 you may have to trim down one of the screws. At the time mine came with a shorter set so I didn't have to. If you do, put a nut on it so it's even and you can control the # of threads you take off. I did the same thing on my 43x MOS and it worked well.
@gsj0810 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tip! I may have some that fit but prob not
@gsj0810 Жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 I just finished and good call on the screws....I had to grind them down to fit. Thanks for the video!
@t3webb Жыл бұрын
And we still don’t have a direct mount from Holosun do we? I haven’t found one at least.
@stevewendling8480 Жыл бұрын
My shortest screws are too long. Do you know what length screw you used ? thanks
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
My Holosun is old. It came with a long set and short set. They don't anymore. Best advice I can give is to put a bolt on your screws as a guide and then grind them down a few threads until you got the right length.
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
That said, I *think* M4 torx 8mm will do the trick.
@matthewblocher6315 Жыл бұрын
8.75 right, 10mm left, per calc Kinetics
@ysidroavila6454 Жыл бұрын
How's the cowitness working? Factory sights? Thanks for sharing
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
photos.app.goo.gl/MgGqGSyMTQEC3UgaA
@fazoodle7972 Жыл бұрын
I wish you would've shown co witness. Since that was the point of this Dx
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
photos.app.goo.gl/MgGqGSyMTQEC3UgaA
@fazoodle7972 Жыл бұрын
Why the F does this gun have these dumbass metal pieces lol I just bought the gun too
@captainamer71 Жыл бұрын
To try and sell their own optics
@baconatordoom Жыл бұрын
@captainamer71 The Hellcat has an RMSc footprint. The same as the Shield, Trijicon, Romeo, Swampfox, etc, and they all direct mount without a plate or modification. Springfield optics have the same footprint as the others. It's the Holosun that changed the footprint, not springfield. Holosun says it's for more room for the internal electronics so they could keep the side battery tray on such a small optic.
@anthonyortiz4538 Жыл бұрын
Hey bro what size screws did you use? I did this and now obviously the screws are too long
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
My Holosun came with a set of short screws, but they don't anymore. Put a nut on your longer screws and grind them down a few threads.
@selfdefensejujitsu-mizumar7221 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this video! I’m going to have to do this to mine as well now for to reasons. 1. So I can see my sites better 2. So if the battery ever dies on me or Red dot brakes I’ll still have the fixed sites available.
@TXLorenzo2 жыл бұрын
Use a vise dude.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
If I had one ...
@TXLorenzo2 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 Harbor Freight, $19.97
@Tools-at-work2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the detail of the video. After mounting the optic are you able to use the iron sights
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
Yep. They cowitness nicely.
@brandongraf872 жыл бұрын
That's exactly what I was in the comments for
@t3webb Жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 did you ever have any problems with rust after doing this? Or have you taken the red dot off to ever see?
@jonmichael1974 Жыл бұрын
@@t3webb No rust. My Holosun glass cracked a year ago, so it's been off to confirm. I trail run with my Hellcat, so it does get some regular sweat.
@t3webb Жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 okay thanks for sharing that. That was my concern with doing this. Did you go back with Holosun or try something new? I want to have co witness for sure. Haven’t been impressed on what I have heard/read about hex wasp and SMSc. Any other suggestions?
@joshuabruce99202 жыл бұрын
I just put a hellcat on layaway today. Had a 507k on it, hardly used for 469. Basically new. Someone made maybe 2 trips to the range with it. As I was looking at it I seen light under the dot and thought that's not right and I could see those locating lugs and figured that was the fix. Glad to know it's an easy fix. I don't want no damn plate lol to hell with that. Just another failure point and possibility to shift zero
@davidmoore50992 жыл бұрын
Did this co witness after words? I want to do that but don’t want to do it if it it won’t co witness like the wasp will. But not a big fan of the wasp.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
Yes. Cowitness is good.
@sandworminc.69412 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t you just drill out the holes on the front of optic a bit, so it had better support rather than milling the slide.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
I actually asked Holsoun about this before I started. (1) It would for sure break the waterproof seal. (2) They also said the odds were high something electrical would be damaged if drilling into the optic.
@benparker27352 жыл бұрын
For future viewers 28 thousandths on front lugs. Use a caliper cheap from harbor freight. Anti rust or ceracote shaved area. And please torque screws withlock tight blue.
@JesseWalker-ti2qp2 ай бұрын
Is this taken off or what the height of them should be?
@KendrasEdge7572 жыл бұрын
😂 OR buy a plate from C&H 🤷♂️
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
OR ... check the date this was posted. No plates existed at the time. :-) Further, any plate will reduce the cowitness % so it's still a great option. As of today, I'd either still take the same approach or hold out for a Holosun SCS direct fit.
@TheCubanGeneral2 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 I bought one and it arrived faulty. Loose af, light shining through so its not flush. FML now I gotta deal with customer service.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
@@TheCubanGeneral are Cuban soldiers issued Hellcat's or just the generals? 😁
@midiaz13192 жыл бұрын
great video, thanks for sharing.
@scoeybrabham21192 жыл бұрын
Can I do this for the XDM Elite 10mm compact?
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
The 507c (or others that same size) would be a better fit on that slide.
@scoeybrabham21192 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 thanks
@blakechadwell2392 жыл бұрын
Are factory sights still usable?
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
Yes
@DKCUSTOMJEWELRY2 жыл бұрын
IM A JEWELER AND HAVE BEEN IN METAL MANUFACTURING FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND I WORK WITH ROTARY TOOLS EVERY DAY ALL DAY AND YOU NEED TO HOLD THE DREMEL BITS HORIZONTALLLY FROM THE SIDE USING THE TIPS IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY AND NEVER START SO AGRESSIVE U WANT TO TAKE OFF A LITTLE AT A TIME TO MITIGATE IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE IF YOU NEED FURTHER TIPS LET ME KNOW I AM A GUNSMITH SO THIS KIND OF MADE ME CRINGE
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
Comments in all caps and run-on "sentences" make me cringe.
@robertflocco14452 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 Well said, Michael!
@robertflocco14452 жыл бұрын
Sorry...I meant... Well said, Jonathon!
@YouLookinAtMe-Bro Жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974And what he doesn't understand is... Those lugs are REAL close to the slide, and the bit would mar the slide if held horizontally. Great job bro! I did the same thing to my Shield Plus. I wasn't sure if it would rust, so I just dabbed a little black Rust-Oleum on the bare metal. Thanks for sharing. Liked and subbed.👍 Be safe!✌️
@bearbrewer85172 жыл бұрын
Great video man. Been looking for one like this that shows how you mount it. You should post more 👊🏼
@Mike-cu6gk2 жыл бұрын
Just out of curiosity why didn’t you purchase the plate adapter?
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
Two reasons: 1. There weren't any plate adapters available at the time (They came out after I made the video). 2. I wanted as much cowitness as possible with the factory sights. So even now I'd still take the same approach. In fact I just did with my 43x MOS / 507k. 😁
@Mike-cu6gk2 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 thank you for the reply. With the plate can you use the sights at all ? I’m asking because I don’t want to grind mine and then later on I can’t use a different red dot so I’m not busting chops or anything just wondering that’s all.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
@@Mike-cu6gk I've never used the plate on my Hellcat but ... I did it on my 43x. There wasn't enough cowitness for me, so I returned it and milled those lugs too. :-)
@DonHawkinsPhoto2 жыл бұрын
I saw on another video that at least one of the screws was a little too long so they milled it down so it wouldn’t interfere with that spring inside the slide. Did you do that? If not, do you know if the screw protrudes down too far into that space? Im wondering if you can see it with the back plate removed.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
@@DonHawkinsPhoto I have a gen 1 507k that came with a short and long set of screws. I did not have to cut the shorties down. With the new ones I think you're right b/c I had to do it for my 43x. Put a nut on the screws when you cut/file it down to get a straight cut. GL.
@threebanger2 жыл бұрын
What screws did you go with? My 507k screws are too long.
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
My 507k was a gen1 and came with 2 sets. I used the shorter ones. If you gotta cut/grind your screws down use a nut so you can keep it straight and count the threads. GL.
@jevtec22862 жыл бұрын
My holosun 407k didnt cane with screws I dont know why. Can you let ne knoe what is the correct bolt tread pattern to instal the red dot ? I will apreciate the info thanks
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
@@jevtec2286 I *think* M4 torx 8mm but I'd check w Holosun to confirm.
@jevtec22862 жыл бұрын
Thak u SR m4 by 8mm you save me 50 bucks
@chrispass1012 жыл бұрын
My POS CT 1500 finally died on my xds mod 2 osp. Just got my 507k yesterday, it is the same footprint as the hellcat so I should have no problem doing this right? And is the optic still holding strong... I had already planned to only take off as little as possible up front before seeing your video
@edcaddict95383 жыл бұрын
Did you have to grind dow the screws that can with the optic also????
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
I did not. However, if you have the X2 I'd probably take a little off.
@edcaddict95383 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 gotcha. Thanks for hitting me back!!!!
@penname50502 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 What do you mean by X2?
@jonmichael19742 жыл бұрын
@@penname5050 X2 is the second/latest version of the 507k. X1 was what they called their first release.
@penname50502 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 So, if I got the X2 would I then need to file down the short screws if I did what you just taught me in the video?
@dcooper19943 жыл бұрын
CHPWS now makes an adapter plate for the 407k/507k if you don’t want to take a file to the slide.
@UncleDanBand643 жыл бұрын
Nice work! I would assume going this way your sights are still visible through the optic window?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Yes. The cowitness is great.
@UncleDanBand643 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍@@jonmichael1974
@jn37503 жыл бұрын
I'd wait for the new version that fits the hellcat without modifications.
@tyranitarxd28193 жыл бұрын
there's a new version coming out?
@jn37503 жыл бұрын
@@tyranitarxd2819 They must; otherwise, swampfox, rsmc, springfield... will eat them alive. My guess is within 6 months the revised version will come out. Right now, you can get one from the above manufactures that drop right in without any mods.
@michaelmontanez21373 жыл бұрын
@@jn3750 holosun is better then all those IMO
@captainamer71 Жыл бұрын
And here it is a year later and holosun never did.
@MrScott-yk4kr3 жыл бұрын
I have a Swampfox on mine but it cuts the front sight in half when you co witness. Doe this show the full front sight or does the housing split the front sight as well?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
I have the full front sight.
@ColeDedhand3 жыл бұрын
After watching a bunch of reviews of the shield optic, the romeo zero, the hex wasp, the RMRcc, and the HS507k I see the clear winner is the HS507k. If I have to modify my gun to work with the best optic then so be it.
@Jamie-pn2xj3 жыл бұрын
I’d use a plate from C&H precision myself just my opinion that’s what I’m gonna do I just bought a hellcat. Would be nice if it were directly on the slide though. 🤙🏻
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
There weren't any plate options when I got mine but, as you know, the lower it sits the better the co-witness. So even now, I'd still lean towards the slide mod for that reason. You also probably saw too, C&H will mill it for you.
@UncleDanBand643 жыл бұрын
Did you go the plate route and if so, can you still use your irons?
@Turbo60193 жыл бұрын
I had to cut the screws down on mine for some reason by 3 threads but the guide pins on min looks almost flat compared to original.
@black79montecarlo1233 жыл бұрын
So you used the factory fat screws?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Yes. There were 2 sizes that came with my 507k; used the smaller ones.
@zdw49143 жыл бұрын
The screws that came with my 507k will not work help?
@black79montecarlo1233 жыл бұрын
@@zdw4914 do like I did. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and head to the fastener section and grab you a couple of cap screws. M4 - .7 x 10mm. I filed a little off the end just to be on the safe side. You can also just file down the screws that came with it. They are 12mm. I would shorten them by 3mm and add a tiny bit of blue Locktite to the first 3 threads then torque them down to wrist tight. Zeroed in fine, no movement and I've been carrying it for a little over a month. Zero is still spot on.
@joeberryhill063 жыл бұрын
Hey Jonathan so you've had no issues with your screws? Just wanted to double check I had the romeo Zero on there an I had to file the screws down a bit so they would fit. Just wanted to make sure I didn't need to modify the 507ks screws. I did get the 507k x2 I'd assume it comes with the same screws tho.
@black79montecarlo1233 жыл бұрын
@@joeberryhill06 you will have to replace or file them down or they will hit the extractor spring. Unless they sent him shorter screws. Mine were 12mm. About 3mm too long.
@robluxuryvegas3 жыл бұрын
Once you do this, Can you go back to a Shield optic ?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Sure, you can go back. The difference is the 507K does not have recesses for the lugs; the Shield does. "Going back" would just mean the Shield is now only held by the front lugs and rear screws.
@wmurphy3416ify3 жыл бұрын
Very helpful video I thought I had to cut the screws down which was going to be a lot more tedious. The slide cut was quick and easy. Thanks!!!
@subbiesalaki3 жыл бұрын
I just got 507K as well for my Hellcat. What do you think about drilling small hole into the Holosun red dot itself instead of altering the slide. Is that even possible? I know I can get CHPWS plate but I like the idea of better cowitness but w/o removing some metal.
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
The 507k is waterproof, so for sure that would break the seal. I also don't know where anything "electrical" is located. Personally, I would not go that route.
@subbiesalaki3 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 Thank You for the reply! You are right.. I wish we knew the thickness of the Holosun base :) Running Swampfox Sentinel now on mine but I like Holosun better like on my full size. Thinking of changing it to 507k. Do you know if this 507k's adjustment is tactical click or freely turns w/o clicking?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
@@subbiesalaki It clicks. I looked pretty hard at Swampfox. They're from my home state of CO which made it hard, but like you, I have Holosun's on some other pistols and also some rifles. Standardizing on a brand won out along with the fact that the large circle-dot works better with my astigmatism vs. the single tiny dot.
@MrScott-yk4kr3 жыл бұрын
I have the Swampfox and it covers the bottom 2/3 of the front sight. How much of the front sight shows through that cowitness notch in the Holosun?
@masterbuilder63753 жыл бұрын
Hey man! You did a damn good job EXCELLENT! I noticed a few others that mounted any optics on any hand gun use a little blue lock tight but whatever lol great damn job!!!🤩🤩🤩
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Thanks, MB. The screws included from Holosun already had some thread locker pre-applied. Otherwise, yes a *little* bit of blue Loctite is always a good idea.
@masterbuilder63753 жыл бұрын
@@jonmichael1974 Cool! Awesome job! Thank u
@hammer1013 жыл бұрын
Or ..."SAHC-HOLOk - Springfield Hellcat w/ RMSc Footprint to Holosun 407k / 507k Adapter Plate - C&H Precision Weapons" chpws.com/product/springfield-hellcat-to-holosun-407k-507k-adapter-plate
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Definitely a good option, Hammer. Thanks for the link. Obviously, a plate will reduce the percentage of co-witness. For this small of a pistol, I'm a point-shooter first, then I pick up front sight, and then red-dot then falls into place for me. I wanted that optic as low as possible.
@thegreatchancho3 жыл бұрын
Any advice on treating the metal after you grind it? I’ve heard that blueing still will allow rust and in a humid part of Texas, I really don’t want to deal with rust on my EDC weapon.
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
Sorry man ... I'm not sure. However, since the optic completely covers it, it could be as simple as a little black Rustoleum dabbed on there with a QTip?
@jonmichael19743 жыл бұрын
@Jason Sinatra All blemishes are 100% covered up by the optic. If I chose to remove the optic the OSP plate would also cover them completely. Springfield professionals have already adapted the slide with the OSP model. I just undid 1% of their work to accommodate the 507K.