Battlerite don't have lane and is a MOBA

Favourite podcast episode of all time, not biased at all 🤙

I think where sc2 really struggles on ladder is coin toss builds. and also recover mechanics becoming overrun mechanics when your opponent doesn't know how to respond

Does Lorimbo plan to make any beginner Zerospace content for the beta? I was in the previous alpha and got completely overwhelmed by how many powers/choices there were, even though I liked the look/feel. I tend to learn best following a guide first, then slowly building on top of that

im with hart here, we need to steal moba elements. Imagine yone, ksante, and briar in sc2. Oh wait thats zerg

RTS have always been distinctive between different titles. dow 1 vs C&C vs sc vs wc3 vs Supreme commander vs AoE. The difference between RA2 and AoE is as big as battlefield and rainbow 6 siege, and even more with supreme commander. I have no doubt an indie RTS will come up and take the spotlight. There's a very large passionate RTS group across different titles, BAR is the highlight how much love the genre has

There are actually a lot of parallels between RTS and the tournament table soccer scene. Small community means that everyone who plays is pretty good. Even the rawest tournament player is better than any bar players. New people often show up, get stomped, and never come out again. You have to program events/formats specifically for those players to retain them, and even then some just won't stick, aren't interested in practicing, which is totally understandable. The one advantage is that it's by default a team game (teams of 2). Almost no new player likes singles-they don't have the skillset yet. But those same players can enjoy contributing alongside a stronger player, and it's often motivating to be paired up with a beginner. I love Blizzard style RTS, but I think in order to break into wider appeal, the emphasis has to be on team play. It's so much easier to get someone to join in with you than to to get them to stare down a 1v1 queue.

We don't need another moba rts, what we need is something new, not a rehash of an 14 year old game. Look at what platform games achieved in that same time: Ori, Mario Odyssey, Hollow Knight. All we got is some old microwave reheated ready dinner. Nah thanks i will stick to Age of Empires and Total War until you guys figure out there are other ways of playing real time strategy. People living in the past wasting our time and money.

Underappreciated fact about incentives in regards to game engine is that companies want widely available engines like UE or Unity for safety and flexibility. If you're forced to make your own engine then you also need to maintain it, if your employees leave then they leave with pretty idiosyncratic knowledge so their replacement needs to be trained for months before they get productive to sensible degree. Which of course doesn't happen with UE or Unity because there are tons of people on the market with that knowledge so there's no risk and there's no need for extensive onboarding. If any of these engines had tools and design that would be supportive of basic RTS dynamics then things would probably look a lot different. And there's no real incentives for that support either given how investors or whatnot see RTS genre at large. Outside of engine thing and difficulty of stuff like netcode or pathfinding which disincentivize working on RTS I would also add that modern expectation is for everything to be multiplatform and game being coherent/identical between different platforms and that is also very hard to execute in this genre (if not impossible). Grim Dawn devs are making an RTS game and their lead had an interview semi-recently that touched on that - during talks with publishers when he pitched their RTS game publishers were annoyed and said that they could do something else that could reach people on consoles as well. I don't know whether there is any realistic sensible solution to these difficulties and it is not something that developers (no matter how passionate they are) can solve by themselves. For that reason I find it very unlikely for RTS games to be big like people think they used to be back in the day. At the moment they are in healthy state being practically an average video game genre in terms of numbers, engagement or what have you and keeping it that way will be great enough success, imo.

Talk about grey goo you COWARDS

Great podcast as always, but please consider adding timestamps in the video, would be great to know which part is for what so I could selectively watch if I don't have a few hours to go thru the whole thing. Thanks for the video, keep it up!

Comment section so busy no one can see I like league

bestest podcast in the world ‼

44:51 This is a really key point imo. A lot of the basic units are not interactive enough yet, you just have to kite or get kited. I never thought I'd pine for Stim, but Stim at least makes Terran have to weigh when to use it.

U guys are missing the point. You just need a well executed RTS. There's a lot of space to explore there without being reduced to a "clone". I think aoe4 is actually a good example of this. It is a legit traditional RTS, but it has plenty of unique features for each faction, the landmark system, etc. The only problem with aoe4 is that it was badly executed in every way imaginable. Despite kinda sucking balls it still has a relatively large playerbase to this day, because the traditional RTS formula works (that's what got the genre popular in the first place).

finally the banana story is publically available on the internet for all to see

We getting paid yet?

Like a poor mobile port of SC2 lol

You guys put a big smile on my face with every upload. Great to have someone realistic discussing the issues surrounding stormgate and rts in general. Lots of drivel out there as you've said yourself. Appreciate the content, thanks!

legion td 2 and squadron td are both based on a wc3 map as i understand. Also ltd2 is really awesome

btw I disagree 110% about "rts needs to change to stay alive". Literally all you need is a modern well polished aoe2 and it would be incredibly popular

Can't wait for the intro to grow to 20 minutes and "shit gaming article" to become an hour :) Looking forward to hearing what's on your minds. One of the better parts of Stormgate was finding this show.

Thank you for the episode, haven't watched it yet but i know i will love it

Wheres bar episode?

Hell yeah new episode! Always enjoyable guys

:)

where is the grey goo content you frauds

Yeah, even back in the "patchzerg" era of bl/infestor sc2 I hated when commentators would make a big deal about players only winning because of imbalance. Like the fact of the matter is that doing well or winning a major tournament requires massive amounts of time and effort and to ever imply that a player just burger flipped their way to an imba win is super disrespectful.

where is the ATRT patreon page? ;)

thank you so much for your content i miss the pylon show so much and i feel like this content is providing for a need that is severely lacking in the RTS community. Twitch and reddit atm for stormgate are so toxic that you can't even get reasonable discussions about the game going anymore just too many people complaining about dogs and creeps.

I agree

What a great video! After watching on 32x speed I can confidently say I completely agree with everything Lobo and Hurt said about Dune 2000 and Command and Conquer mobile!

These videos raise my T levels

game is garbage

5:31 Lmaofao out the blue that was! never change guys.

decibles People should stick with Stormgate, which will get better and better IMO

Watching the SG section two weeks later is brutal.

Hey Lorimbo! Super interesting video. One thing that really stuck out to me about the discussion that happened around 1:45 ish with the creep camp balance changes was two things(and this is just my impression on what exactly happened from what I'm seeing from here as well as stormgate's general update cadence, correct me if I'm wrong). First, that it seems like the design iteration to playtesting time with the community generally happened at a pretty slow cadence. There would be a lot of discussion, followed by some changes, and then a ton of playtesting, and then a lot more discussion, and then later some changes down the road. It doesn't feel particularly right to me, because when it comes to game design, you need to be time efficient. What this means is that you have a spectrum with two ends on it: 1. You have the end where stuff feels bad to play with. Players know fairly quickly that stuff bad to play with, and things need to be changed. This is where you need to break down why exactly the gameplay feels bad as fast as possible and then iterate very quickly. In my experience the amount of turnaround time for changes on this end of the spectrum is measured in days to at most a week or two. Having a patch in order to change a few camps on a map, a few units at a time, etc... at this rate is completely okay. Having the developers interacting with playtesters on a daily basis here is important as well in order to just see what is going on. Often, you don't need to see too many games before you can make a judgement if this is a step in the right direction or not when it comes to stuff in this area. 2. You have the end where stuff feels generally pretty okay, or maybe even good. This is where you want to be very thoughtful about what your changes are going, as you don't want to accidentally blow up the good thing that you have built. If there is truly something better, you want to have those hours of discussions in order to understand it better. This leads into the second thing, which is that as a result of this slower cadence, I feel like the designers may just be struggling with understanding the possibility space and what particular changes *do* when it comes to camps. What happens if you go too far one way? What happens if you go too far another way? How do you make camps feel good? Etc... And this is where I think that it's important to recognize that knowledge, discussion, and theorycrafting is no substitute for experience. The correct thing to do in this case is to try something with camps for 2 days, have players play with it, and then try another thing with camps for another 2 days and see what happens again until the designers involved understand the implications of particular changes and can create themselves both an intuition and a set of guidelines that are able to help them to make future content. That's ultimately what you're trying to do as a game designer - build yourself a "good content creation pipeline" with rules, as well as an understanding of what happens when you break those rules such that you can break them in a good way to create interesting, different game scenarios. Mapmakers are a great example of this in sc2. Players still remember golden wall to this day as it was a rule break from traditional, good starcraft 2 maps. As that designer you're exploring spaces that no one else has explored before, experiencing things and teaching yourself what happens with them in order to best enable yourself to build a good video game. Ultimately, I think that's something of what Stormgate's team is missing, that understanding of how to explore and teach oneself. The fun part also is that if you do that with the community, then they can learn along with you, and then they are more capable of coming up with effective solutions to problems that they see in the game. Just my 2 cents. Love the show.♥ (Also - Showed my dad the IODIS from Harstem about how mech is OP with Raynor. He thinks you're awesome.)

It is very disappointing that they did not even get lore right for campaign release. I can forgive graphics, cut scenes and such stuff but lore, it is not something that would cost them tone of money, just decision to put focus on that. So yeah this is let down. I am online PvP type of player, so I actually enjoy the game but I worry a lot about feasibility of the game based on how campaign was treated so far. You are right that it was the only chance for first impression, so now even if they fix it it will be super hard to bring onboard campaign players from this point...

This show gets me out of the bed in the morning and gives me a sense of purpose in a life filled with disappointing RTS

holy shit can you try being wrong on something for once ? it must be boring to keep being correct on everything all the time

I hope you didn't pay Lorimbo

New background hypeeee

You guys are getting really good at this shit sandwich format

My goats

Mediocre episode!

Great episode!

Now what indeed

Top Stormgate tip, which you haven't heard in this video. Don't play this abomination and go play literally any old-school RTS instead.

Pls make a video about the state of the game after the patch/ free to play release or Lorimbo will explode from high blood pressure 😜