Thanks. Yeah grew up playing TPB and later learned RPB. For me it's TPB - more consistent. RPB - more power potential. Anybody learning new should just learn RPB right from the jump I think. It's the more modern style of play.

Thx. Yeah i'm telling you when you're at home watching a program or movie, etc. Just be holding your paddle and be twiddling as you're killing time. You'll get fast with it in no time.

For sure brother. I need to make another video like this sometime. Keep you in the know plus it'd be fun for me to start to document the girl's journey into TT. They've come a long way since starting to go with me more & more from I'd say the beginning of the year.

I did own a Nittaku Sou mf r or p. Trying to remember. The round one. Anyways, I've tried jpen several times and I've come to this conclusion. They're great for power but the don't spin the ball as nicely as Cpens. Now I'm pretty sure that's a me thing. Power is great. However I need the spin. On top of that, I no longer play this style. Is it fun and does it drive some opponents crazy? You bet. But there will be times when you face opponents who don't struggle vs the long pips and it leads me to playing too passively. I've for some time now been trying to play a more modern style inverted both sides type of game. Always trying to get better with my RPB. I recommend that style the most. Yes, keep penhold going. Good luck.

Thank you much. You'll be pleased to hear my two girls are starting to play and they're also playing penhold. Got to keep it alive. :) They're learning RPB right from the get go though while I still primarily prefer the traditional penhold backhand. I'm okay with them playing a more modern style.

Usually long pips for me. But someone could use any type of pips (short or medium) or even an anti spin depending on what they like. As of right now I'm playing inverted on both sides and looking to play more RPB shots that come to my backhand so certainly a more modern style of play. Quite some time ago I settled on this conclusion. If you play a combination bat & you twiddle (I have a video on that), sure use this mostly curled fingers approach. Makes twiddling fast. However, if you don't twiddle, you're better off with the more traditional slightly curled almost extended grip I show in the video. One thing that does I didn't cover in this video is more extended fingers I think improves feel of the blade head on the forehand and it certainly allows you to have better power on the forehand.

The Chinese penhold easy. I love the look & comfort of Jpen but it's simply a dated style in today's game. Got to have some form of a backhand so you're best off learning a decent RPB if you play penhold.

Yes there's a neighboring town that plays with 1 ball per table. They play with the Nittaku Premium which is expensive so they play with one ball. We play with the Nittaku J top ball which is more affordable so our club can have multiple balls. I think club members like it as it's less chasing a ball around and easier on the back all that picking up. ;)

Ha thanks. I would just practicing twiddling while watching a show. You'll get the hang of it in no time. ;) I will say that I recommend a curled fingers approach if you want to twiddle fast. If you have a traditional grip, it won't be as fast. See this video for more detail. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j56lo3Vsrteehsk I will say it's a cool style but there are give & takes with everything. You have to train your muscle memory to be good with inverted & long pips on both forehand and backhand. Plus there will be moments that you might want to attack but simply cannot because you just so happen to be on the long pips for that side (see 1:07 in the video for a perfect example of this) so you have to play it tactically. It's a lot but that's part of the fun. Thanks for the comment.

@@Soper79 I have LP and SP on my bat. An old PF4-032. I just joined tabletennisdaily forum. I’ll mess with it before going to bed. I don’t want to drop my old 32 as it’s ancient.

@@nybcbuildingmanager6770 I've heard that's a classic SP bat. Famous one. I was using SP & LP on a Stiga Clipper another quite popular SP blade. I've gone through phases with this style. I hardly twiddle anymore. For a long time I was playing as a traditional single wing penholder (sometimes SPs. sometimes inverted) with LPs on my backhand for the occasional LP chop and I like that style. At the moment I'm trying duel inverted and working on my RPB. It's less tricky and more similar to a standard game but I think my ability to get better is probably there. We'll see. Take care.

@@Soper79 Yes I heard too, my wife has one from the 80's in shakehand. I lucked out and bought one from the 70's as my old bat from my teenage years was a "PF4" something something, I think a 7 ply but I ended up buying mine from a table tennis forum somewhere. Didn't know it had such a cult like fanbase. I never tried anything new as I am starting over many many years later, but I am having a good time playing again (covid made me buy a table and a robot) and I'm just hitting balls everyday for a couple hours. I am curious about what new equipment is like but am just working on consistency. I have the robot set at heavy topspin loops hitting just inches from the end of the table and I'm working on hitting the ball at the rise with low trajectory over the net. a lot of fun~~ hope I can lose some weight replacing my exercise bike cardio with table tennis!

ha. Thanks. I know exactly what you mean by players of that type. We had this old Asian guy pass through and came to club a few times about 6 months ago and immediately beat 90% of our players. He was typical single wing penhold good. Really good FH and his BH was so darn consistent and basically never missed. Would be like hitting to a brick wall. The ball always came back. ;) As for you playing RPB, that's the way to go. Anybody younger or more modern should always play this way. I can twiddle and hit some RPB (I have other videos where I'm playing duel inverted) but I grew up playing TPB so much the indecision gets me and honestly I'm more consistent with TPB so I've just fully embraced it. Thanks for watching. I've got another video of a hit session coming soon here where I'm training with the best player in our state.

Your timing is good. We just announced yesterday that we have a projected restart date of Sunday June 21st. Hope to see you there. Follow us on FB to keep up with updates. Thanks. facebook.com/LincolnTableTennisAssociation

That's 4 more weeks, wow. Is Omaha starting up sooner? I'm glad I have my Wally rebounder.kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJnIdGB8f9aAjbM

Yeah those two-toned DHS balls came out well after I made this video but I've played with them. That being said, i think the 4 quadrant color is still better for seeing the spin of your serves IMO over the DHS balls. For example. Hold the DHS ball with the line pointing up & down. Orange on the left. White on the right. Now lets pretend you hit a perfect backspin serve. Well in theory, you wouldn't be able to see how much backspin you got. It'd still be orange on the left, white on the right. It'd just be spinning on that axis. That wouldn't happen with the balls colored in quarters as I show here. :) Anyways, yeah this works and is a pretty quick method. i still have mine for service practice still after having them for years.

Suds TT Cool, well I’ll definitely start making my own today then, thx! Also, r u playing double inverted these days, or do u still play w/LPs? I’m twiddling btwn OX LPs and inv for 6 mos now so still relatively new to it, not sure if u have any strategies for that, recommendations, etc.

@@penholdpips I play both styles. And honestly? Probably play them about the same level. Some people really struggle vs the LPs. And some people don't. It's a mixed bag. For some time now, when I am playing LPs, I've gone away from twiddling as much. I still can and will rarely do it just as a changeup but I felt that for some reason I'd play very passively if I twiddled too much in cases where the LPs gets caught on my FH. Plus I want my muscle memory on my FH to largely be just use to inverted as my FH is my main attacking weapon. If you twiddle a bunch, you have to learn twice as much muscle memory. ex: - inverted FH, LP FH - inverted TPB, LP TPB - inverted rpb, lp rpb ETC... on & on So when I play now, if I'm using LPs, I'll largely leave it on the RPB side for the occasional block or chop. Almost like a modern defender at times with penhold if you can imagine that. :) It's weird I know but I like the concept of that a good chop is there when I want it and if I want to attack, I feel comfortable in my inverted TPB doing that. Let's see. Strategies. I remember when I'd twiddle a lot, a simple setup point would be to serve heavy backspin with your inverted, twiddle to LPs, they would most likely push so it's backspin coming to you. Then you LP bump or swipe going back to them sending them a weird topspin ball. This can sometimes catch opponents off guard as most of the time they'll assume you'll just push that backspin ball right back at them with inverted.

Suds TT TY so much for all the explanations. I know what u mean ab twiddling too much; after service is no issue, but it does seem like diminishing returns w/2+ per rally. As is still the case for me, I inevitably get confused ab which side my LPs are on, so sometimes they’re still an advantage for my opponent 😆 Slowly improving tho :) I’ve never really tried using LPs on my BH as you suggest, I need to try that out more. I suppose my focus has been on RPB with inverted, which I’m still inconsistent with. My TPB was decent, esp when I played 1-sided jpen, but I’m a total rookie in other aspects since I never played shakehand or had BH side. U really have a varied game, even pulling off RPF! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 So much harder than it looks when I tried! Good to know I’m on the rt track at least, as I just started trying out the tip u mentioned! Anyway, ur twiddling video helped get me started awhile back, and u were very helpful to me on Revspin too (I’m “jpenjunkie”). I’m indebted to you-THANK YOU SO MUCH. All the best to you in 2020!

Hi MM. Sorry i didn't see your post. Was it hard to learn? No not really. Just have to practicing twiddling. Do it even when you're not playing. You'll be very fast at it in no time. Once you can twiddle fast, there's only a few rules to remember. Largely chop-block topspin balls at you. And largely bump-attack backspin balls. (you can chop backspin balls also. But a lot of good players tend to attack backspin with long pips). Here's a link from a blog i use to do talking about players to reference. penholdpips.blogspot.com/2017/09/people-to-reference-if-playing-penhold.html

Suds TT No worries, thanks so much! And that’s a great list of players and videos. Can’t wait until we can all finally play again. Take care ✌️

This tournament we went to was in Sgt Bluff. They always have a tournament in March & August. I'd check their site when they post it. sites.google.com/site/sergeantblufftabletennis/upcoming-events

absolutely you can. Perfectly legal. Now some people speculate that the setup would be pretty heavy but certainly there have been pros who play with two sided Jpens. Taisei Matsushita as an example. If you look up his name on youtube, you should be able to find some videos of him.Qiu Dang also

Lincoln Nebraska. Central part of US. Thx for watching.

Suds TT Wonderful place. Thanks

It's still my main blade. I really like it. I think the description zeropong has on it is pretty accurate. It's flexy. A great spin blade but not a speed demon. Sometimes I think I should upgrade to something faster but honestly? When I try to hit the ball hard, it's plenty fast easy. And it's speed allows for easier touch drop type shots. So in short, I highly recommend it. It really is great at producing a lot of spin. But if you're looking for at fast blade? Then this isn't what you're looking for. FYI there is a Fire Dragon Fast on zeropong's site.

@@Soper79 Thanks man; this is very helpful. I'm looking for a Moderate/ALL flexy Gambler blade. I had narrowed it down to Fire Dragon Touch, Wing Wood IM8, and Vector Target. Yeah, not looking for a fast blade, just something with a bigger sweet spot. Gambler Burst with Thor's Hammer sponge will make any blade fast, even the Zen! I will wait and see if they do another Black Friday sale :) Thanks again.

@@Soper79 Hey man, one last question before I pull the trigger. What's your opinion on the sweet spot? Small or large?

@@Waingro808 Hard to say. I think generally with carbon, which the fire dragon series is, that you get a bigger sweet spot but I have no complaints about the blade. I will say this. I'm eyeing the Fire Dragon Fast. The touch is a really nice blade but here I am some 3 years later wanting a speed upgrade. So I'm going to get the Fire Dragon Fast. I would urge you to try that one. The Touch is a great blade. But it's no speed demon. That's for sure.

@@Soper79 thx bro

Hey thanks for checking in. I suppose it depends on when you ask me. lol. But honestly, I'm pretty much doing dual inverted. Blade - Gamber Fire Dragon Touch (slower blade I like that and flexy for spin). Forehand - H3Neo commercial. Backhand - Regular H3. What can I say? I like tacky. I will occasionally bust out the long pips on the BH and just use TPB when I want to attack. I'm more consistent with TPB but power & spin will never match RPB. I currently use both strokes. Anyways, when I do play long pips, I generally don't twiddle anymore. I like the concept of getting the feel down for inverted on the FH & TPB then using the LPs sparingly with a RPB chop when needed. If you twiddle a ton, you have to learn FH inverted and LPs. Bh inverted & LPs, etc. So it's just a decision I've made.

@@Soper79, I followed quite number of Japanese twiddler Inv+LP. You can checkout my playlist. Btw, do you know where about Zhou Xintong & Wang Qiu Yee ? Didn't see their game anymore...

@@AmmarMohdZain Yes you're following the right people. I perferred Qng Qiu Yee's style for her amazing attacks with LPs that'd make you think she's play with SPs she's so good at it. I don't know of any newer videos of her. Check out kzbin.info/door/KAS3a8DoI5q3do3t5RbnyQ if you haven't already

Cool thanks for the info. From my background, I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up.

March Wu, I am not sure you heard of a Chinese National Player by the name of Jiang Jia Liang. Jiang did not curl his fingers. I would say most Chinese penholders curl their fingers but some of them don't. By the way, Jiang won the WTTC Single twice, 1985 and 1987. Jiang is one the greatest players of alltime.

Blade - Stiga Clipper. black rubber - 802.40 Short pips. 2.2 sponge ( I play inverted now and no longer short pips. Red rubber - Long pips. Probably Palio ck531a on 1.0 sponge if i remember right.

Awesome Kritish. Penhold in a funny way is all about doing what works for you. You ask 10 penholders what their grip is, you'll get 3 different answers. The fully curled fingers grip I really liked for if you play pips and you twiddle a lot. I now play inverted both sides so for some time now I've been using the traditional grip shown in the video. I think it gives me better feel and/or power on the FH having those fingers griped more on the back of the blade. That being said, the curled fingers approach will certainly make it easier to have less RPB shots hit your fingers. ;) Have fun and enjoy the style.

@@Soper79 Thank you so much for the insight.

@@Soper79 funny thing with what you are calling traditional. the curled finger one looks more like the old fashion "tradition" cpen grip. the grip where the finger are extended and curved is actually the grip that has evolve from the traditional grip. lgl, cnt coach, talks about this in a video somewhere.in the video he shows of ryu jpen fully extended grip for strong forehand, ma lins curled grip for good serves and 3rd ball attack,and wang haos curved extended grip where the contact point are more near the finger tips for strong rpb.

I will sometimes yes. More so in doubles usually. I'll sometimes try to sell heavy backspin action and if the person falls asleep mentally and doesn't catch that, if they try to push the ball, it pops up and my teammate knows to be ready for a 3rd ball attack. But you have to obviously use that sparingly otherwise they'd catch on :)

Hi Sumil. Yeah it's funny but if you look around enough, you'll notice a lot of pros hold it slightly different. For some time now, I've been back at the slightly curled grip or what I call traditional in this video. Something I know now that I didn't at the time is that with the fingers more extended on the back side, I like it better for feel & power on the forehand. However, for me twiddling then becomes next to impossible. So if I plan to twiddle - then fingers curled. If I plan to not twiddle as much - fingers more straight (traditional grip). Hope you find what works best for you.

Sure looks like it. We both missed it.

:) Yeah been playing inverted on both sides for a little while now and playing better than I had before when i was playing SP on the forehand and inverted on the backhand. So we'll continue to stick with this setup for some time even though I really like to watch all kinds of pips players out there. Got a tournament on the 20th. Hoping to catch some footage then and upload it here.

Sorry I never replied. Just saw this. It's a Stiga clipper. Short handle. it's Cpen.

Stiga Clipper Classic penhold version. One of the best blades for short pips one can find. It's a great blade in general. I cannot recommend it enough.

Can't see why RPB can weaken a penholder's FH?

I was talking about this video & grip to someone on a message board. Performing the RPB with this more curled fingers approach for me is no different than with the more traditional almost straight fingers approach. It's the same motion. So if you can do the RPB, you can do it with this grip. I'd recommend learning to block first. Then later work your way with more active counter drives. Then to Loop as a progression. To me it's similar to throwing a Frisbee honestly. If I'm twiddling like I'm playing with a combination bat, I definitely prefer this grip. If I'm not twiddling, say playing duel inverted on both sides, then I prefer the more extended fingers grip as I think those fingers give slightly better power & feel on the forehand.