We need to respect and encourage the culture that got us here. We are two cycles from this being the thing. Don’t rush but pull the rest along, if you can see the future respect the past.

2025 Letsssssssssss$$$$$$$$$Gooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! :)

Would you rather have prize money or a live stream? As a consumer and not a participant, I say live stream is more important. The Aloha Classic windsurf event just went down and they had a great live stream. Drone footage and everything. The thing that hooked us all into M2O was drone footage of the finish with Kai Lenny overtaking Jeffrey Spencer years ago. Since then, no good drone coverage of races. Everyone owns a drone now, why is no one filming these races?!

Sweet spot, where is it?

Dude 😮

why no full boom lads?

James - very nice. Which Bar?

So this is not only for prone foiling? Why are there larger sizes not available?

Got my order in already, looking forward to winging the new pilot mid. Nice wing management too!

Sensational James!

Beach runs rule !

I'm a big fan of beach to beach as it ensures that the equipment designs/updates will continue to cover a wider range of conditions/weights/skill levels which is a win even for those that aren't into racing. It also makes the racing more exciting and interesting - I typically err on the bigger/slower sizes and often get passed by nearly everybody and their sister within the first 5 minutes of a race, but then when we round diamondhead, I start running down my compeitors - I have gone from launching first to dead-last to first place more than once in my age group, and have taken down many a youngster pumping past them in the last 1/5 of the Hkai to Kaimana races by OahuFoils.

Seems like most people want to just ride with friends, not race, but good luck!

What do you think of a 10km shootout style race day? Like setup shuttles for a period of time 10 am to 7pm. As many runs as you want, and keep an on going leaderboard with fastest time from pop up to finish. Rules on min distance to qualify your run etc.

Thanks for your thoughtful video!

A 3rd format (and i'm sure this isn't limited to 3) might be average speed over a distance, rather than time to complete a course. Such as what we did with "Botany Bay Blast 10km". On a course like Bumphunters competitors would be placed based off their shortest time over their best 25km section (using an approved app like Waterspeed or similar). You'd have foilers hooking hard across swells, some going up and over, whatever they think is going to give them the highest average speed for 25km. Doesn't matter what position they cross the line, as someone that finishes in a shorter time might not have gone as fast over a 25km window as someone who covered more ocean and therefore came in later. Maybe a good 2nd day event. Imagine an event like Bumphunters '25 being a two day event: Day 1: 30km A2B race Day 2: 25km Average Speed Range challenge Discuss... :)

Nice ideas on the format. I like the idea of swell riding, it's probably beyond most but at least would have been pretty interesting to try

OahuFoil has got to step up the game! Got outdone by 5x. :)

You Should push different style races, short sprint DW like road bike style, just hammering. Long distance So you have to use bigger gear because you can’t just sprint it out. You could have some minimum size foil racing? Not one design but a min area so maybe it brings everyone together? Slalom style. We need to make a like world tour, and every race has its own unique challenges, and conditions. Food for thoughts

very nice ! thanks

I used to compete in the heavily weather dependent sport of hang gliding. I went to contests all around the world. Conditions could vary between epic and extremely light. Our comps were usually a week or at least a long weekend in order to get some good weather. I totally get what you're talking about!

What size do you recommend for wing foil? 4' or 6' ? Thanks

Do you think there I’ll be more week long Foil festivals like the France event in the future? I imagine all Foiler’s are there and ready to compete in multiple disciplines and formats, DW and surf. The many conditions we can ride in are massive draw card for foiling. Events could have Winners of each discipline and overall points winners Much more organisation required but more guaranteed coverage for event sponsors and riders.

Thanks for testing all axis range ! Great video!😊

Thanks for following up and giving this the consideration it needs. Keen to keep the thoughts going and give useful food for thought for people running or considering to run events. I think I agree with you, run it on the best conditions for the waiting period, don't cancel it. This is what happened in France, and it was fine. My reservations are around the equipment and taking the joy out of the sport, as I think those types of conditions are going to be the default due to the SUP scene, and it will take effort to have offshore races like M2M (let alone M2O) anywhere else in the world. As to the future. I like the idea of endurance 2-4 hour long races, eg a mountain bike race. However, a 4 hour mountain bike race where you push the bike the entire time. Obviously if it is a one-off that is fine, but do you think you'd get repeat signups if that was the a likely scenario? This to me is the worst case scenario, and something to plan to avoid. If it is "Run it regardless. Flat lake is fine". Massive foils, tiny boards and lake specialists come to mind. If everyone can stay on foil for hours, then surely do laps? 5-10 laps of a circular 2km course course. It would surely have the exact same competitive dynamic except easier to run so it makes it more accessible. (I think the inland crew will no doubt start doing this with dockstarting). What makes SUP interesting is that you can get going offshore, in light winds where nothing else is viable (parawing, dockstart etc). You made an interesting point when you point out how much of this is dictated by the fact that a high % of competitors come from a SUP background. What is interesting here is that there are as many wingers, surfers, and dockstarters who will basically vote with their weekends and holidays, and support events that they think are fun. People are interested in foiling fast downwind in energy, I think that is a useful thing to keep in mind. In reality, what drives a lot of this is insurance. Some Surfski and SUP events will be able to allow foilers to attend. For better or for worse that will have a massive influence on the locations, conditions that races are run in, and pretty much dictate the future of the sport. Maybe as Fred has done in St Tropez, the ideal is to tag onto sailing racing. They have the big boats, they have the sponsors, they can deal with the more complex logistics...? Rolex Downinder Sydney Hobart? Anyway, that is my wall of text response. We are trying to work out what will work in the UK, and it is tough!

Nothing but respect for the amount of work event organizers all over the world put in so that we can continue to grow as a sport. It's a huge endeavor that largely goes unnoticed by many participants, and I'd include myself in that. I know next to nothing about all that it entails. I don't think events should be called off due to any minimum required conditions. As competitors we should be ready to compete in any conditions. But I do think we should be actively considering ways to minimize the frequency of events in the poorest of conditions. The Saint Tropez event is a perfect example of this. It might have been 20 knots the first day, but not in Saint Tropez itself. We had to go out and find those conditions. The second day was about 10 knots, and we went out and found some fun(770R fun) conditions as well, albeit for a shorter distance. Fred and LAST's Saint Tropez event felt like a very good direction for the sport in my opinion. It does require thinking bigger collectively than we currently might be. Major brand sponsorships, government subsidies/funding/support, competitor fees, etc. could all contribute. I can't speak for them, but it seemed to me almost like they organized this event imagining that all those things were in place(surely some of it was), as if the sport were already at that juncture. Of course, the sport is not there yet. But that's not the key take-away for me. What matters is that now there is a different, I'd say very complete, professional and scalable proof-of-concept that aims to put the best available riders in the best possible conditions with the least amount of friction. They've essentially managed to bring down the percentage of having to run in very poor conditions. It's not perfect and there will always be a chance of the poorest possible conditions and we need to be prepared to finish those races as well, but there's just less entertainment value in that I think so coming up with ways to avoid that is key to presenting the sport to possibly a wider audience and a larger pool of business interests. I personally think this could be an option in many places if looking only through a geographical lens, especially if longer event windows are possible. Governmental permits and other lenses could certainly be a show stopper though. Anyway, I could explore this topic for quite some time, but I don't think this is a great format to do so. I believe this discussion is just getting started, and it would be great to see a progressing conversation that considers racers, organizers, sponsors and event sites equally.

I do a lot of very light DW. If I ever entered a race, a light one is probably where I'd do better!

Not sure what you said last week that was wrong? I agree with what you said, that one should race whatever the wind/bumps are, whether its good or not, one needs to be ready and trained for that :) . Only reason to cancel would be if its dangerous conditions.

Wind is so hard to get in an event but at least it’s not like kiting where we need current wind since we don’t need to have wind to dw sup foil if it has residual bumps in open ocean. I’m not good enough to flat water paddle up but can see doing an event in sub par conditions with big gear to still have a battle of skills.

As somone involved in organising a race this week. Holy Moley it's a lot of pressure and it's changed the way I'll approach events in the future. Compassion is the key.

Love the music, can you tell me who it’s is? The sax has an amazing tone!

Miles of smiles with FD, especially for those of us who don't have time/inclination to organize a shuttle. Just remember it's battery/electric so its not a matter of "if", just "when" something will go wrong (could be as simple as broken throttle trigger spring ... he says from recent experience!) so... if you're not being watched over by a drone pilot play safe - carry a phone and/or vhf radio etc, ride a board you can paddle back to shore, etc.

Nice bumps. Which front foil were you using?

Credit to the organisers, they ran an epic event, and I think this was a good call to run the first day as it lead to lots of discussion on the future of downwind. I think that like sailing, kiting and most other wind based sports there needs to be a minimum requirement on wind. They put someone out there with a wind gauge and if the wind is below X for Y minutes then they postpone the start, and the same should apply for foiling. My take on a first draft for the requirements - 10 knots average over 30min is required for bay run - 8 knots average over 5min for ocean run As to the competition, the second race was run in probably 8-10knots, it was entirely viable, most of the pack finished with only a few paddle ups. I think the criteria should match that. If an average rider can realistically run the race dry on production equipment, then it is viable, otherwise it's too light. Day one was impossible to complete for the current average racer - even including lots of pros. No one wants to travel with more gear than necessary, and already for dockstart, surf and downwind you had to have a load of foils, bringing massive heavy pump foils, shorter masts, smaller boards is just a pain. On the future of sport, I think it would be pretty lame, but also seems somewhat inevitable if we don't act, for downwind foiling to be competed mostly in bay runs in 10 knots. It's a challenge and very competitive, but is pretty much the same as SUP racing, and literally no one is excited for that future. In short, keep it fun

Nice one James - great to see! DW is certainly more accessible than many think in terms of locations that will work. Thanks for sharing the stoke

Ohhhh heavy call out!!! I’d like to think I make decisions on my ability and the conditions, not my ego… 😢😂🤣 To me there was absolute NO ego in the choices any riders made. We had no way of checking conditions so the organisers gave us a video taken from the starting area 30 mins prior and a conditions report for swell and wind and we made an informed decision on that. During the 45min paddle out to the start the conditions dropped to 3-4 knts and their report on the swell was far smaller than what we were greeted with. The decision to start the race was definitely the wrong decision and put riders safety in question as the run was not possible to complete paddling alone before dark. A large number of the field had to be picked up by boat as we were loosing time. We all had larger foils, but we made decisions based on the information we were given, and were then not given the opportunity to change when the conditions changed before starting.

The thing people need to understand is there was some wind before we lined up, the rain killed the wind, simple is that. It is just bad luck, do not think it was the plan to send 100 foilers in no wind no bump 15km. If we had to do it again, I think we should have went back to the parking, switch gear and go for a shorter course, such as 8 or 10 km. What do you think ? With bigger foils, which most people have, it would have been way easier.

Bad take. Imagine west winds on the next Molokai to Oahu and this same logic applied; you really going to say people are undertrained? Hold downwind racing to a standard similar to the Eddie where necessary conditions are required. That is much better for the sport.

The future of the WSL should be 1 foot pipeline

Bummer for the racers - but I agree with your comments- it would be nice if the races had some kind of buoy that they could post for the competitors to know real time wave / wind data on the morning of the race...

Tough one - I think more guys who did the race need to comment before we do - but I will try anyway. I sympathise with organisers but people have travelled half-way across the world to do a dwd race where it seems not one person was able to stay on foil the entire course. At worst the race should have been much shorter, but easy to say in hindsight, as it would have been over before it started if it had been, say, half the distance and guys were able to foil. The guys were all on very small foils - I know you guys think 1160 is small but as an average guy I would have pulled out my 1600 or 2050 and then still most likely not have made the course. It gets to a point where bumps are so weak they are of no assistance - then it's really not downwinding anymore. When we have a day like that we call it a WOT (Waste of Time).

My pride wants to disagree, but I can't 😂. I failed to finish... In fact, I failed to paddle up at all before getting picked up by a boat. Tough to swallow, but if 60-something people out of however many total were able to finish the race, then my preparation/gear selection was the problem. My main challenge was that it was my first ever time in cold water and I was very unprepared for that, but I needed a way bigger foil as well. I do think that pump foil races like yesterday's are a pretty terrible sales pitch for getting outsiders into the sport. Longer waiting periods would be one kind of solution to avoid flat conditions but the financial scaffolding for those organizing the races and traveling just isn't there.

Followed a couple of insta livestreams, one of Edo’s girlfriend. It was epic to watch. More of that!

Ripping

It would be nice to see a foiling event similar to Mogul Skiing. A downwind run of specified length which could be condition or venue dictated. Start and finish marked by buoys. For scoring the run could be similar to Moguls which is 60% turns, 20% air and 20% speed. Maybe foiling is 60% turns , 20% flow and 20% speed. One racer at a time would be easiest but could do two. Judges at the bottom to watch real time with video review if needed. Foil and board choices based on conditions or venue would be a cool undertone. Don’t cross start until buzzer. Lots of opportunities with this style I think. Could even translate to a freestyle run adding back airs to scoring.

Great storey, inspiring for my kids who are right into all foiling disciplines ,, we just need someone other than FIV to organise , surf foil, downwind, and wing foil free style/wave events.. lots of kids getting into ... this all needs encouraging ,, plus there are epic downwind possibilities here

Not an organizer but was race official for the Foil race 4 cycles ago. Took the time to reach out to Shannon weeks before the race and add my 2cents to the race rules for escorts. Went for my first foil day after last years race. You never know who watches these things ; ) Big call out to Roy the Hype man in the comments! Hehehe

No mention of the legendary hype man who parked next to you before the race and pumped you up? 😢

Totally need media coverage, the friend or girlfriend iPhone instagram stream is all we got right now. Do they do it by boat? Feel like helicopter would disrupt the competitors when foiling. For escort boats could they all be stationed like 5miles down course and be off to the side and filter in as their athletes come through? Then they not racing to catch up but they are already ahead. As a spectator it seemed more fun to be watching last year just thinking of Danes live stream where he was Downwinding more using the bumps granted on a 150 big foil than watching this years streams of up and overs going more straight on tiny foils. If we have more media got to think about how it will look watching. I kind of agree to experiment with formats with markers that might create some need to cut one way or another during a section of the race, which then dictates foil choice. I’m not sure I have heard during the podcast a clear way to do that yet or police it or even set markers way out to sea? But if it’s going to happen it probably needs to be thought about and trialed to see if it would work. I thought the having to come into a market at china walls would have been sick because we could have had cameras there filming the rounding of the marker and headed back out and would have dictated stages of the race and given spectators a good look. Excited for France race and bumped you can’t make it to continue these great discussions on formats and see how it works and feels in Barcelona. Awesome hearing edos recap of racing Kane and fin and details at the end, wanted to hear about board and foil and the battles in each race.

James, Thank you for taking the time to do these great interviews, and give us an insight into the minds of great foilers. Very well done.