Toby and Josh were the kings of bullying democrats who they agreed with into supporting half-assed measures forced on them by the republicans and then complaining why democrats in congress hate them

My introduction 19 years ago to The Velvet Underground.

Toby didnt "own" the senator. This episode is part of an arc where Bartlette is running against his own principles because he thinks it will win over "moderates". Toby is angry because he agrees with the seantor. He saying Bartlette is the leader of the party as much to justify his own actions as to tell off the Senator. Eventually we see Bartlette reverse this and embrace himself fully. Its a brilliant writting that ties the season together.

“Come at us from the Left, and I’m going to own your ass.” Why is there a flaw in your Left flank for someone to breach? You should’ve been there already, Toby. I thought you were supposed to be the most Leftwing member of the President’s groupies. And, also, if the leader of a party betrays that party, then the other members should call him out.

I wish Ed had been cast in more episodes; his character was the 'truest' liberal in the show. Not to say Toby wasn't. Hell, Toby was the heartiest liberal by far. But his character's attempts to compromise (govern) always was half-hearted and met with stiff resistance that he never really tried to fight. Leo and the President were 1st generation Neo-Liberals, with Josh being an up-and-coming 2nd generation Neo-Liberal and Sam being a liberal in social issues and tepidly at best. This is my opinion after watching the show repeatedly for two decades. That said, I've deciphered the characterization of each character in the show and each other. The President is the father. Leo is the President's best friend. Josh, the President's oldest son. Charlie, his adopted youngest son. Toby, his little brother. C.J. is Leo's adopted daughter and the President's god-daughter. Donna, his daughter-in-law. The Surgeon General is the President's ex-girlfriend. Leo's sister, the "hippie aunt." Lord John, the "creepy uncle." Miss Fiderer, the President's crazy cousin. Mrs. Langingham, the President's big sister. Adm. Fitzwallace, the President's old high school coach. Ron Butterfield, the local mailman. Margaret, the neighborhood "cat lady." The Speaker of the House, a former 'snoty boyfriend" of the President's daughter. Dr. Bartlet is "Lady Macbeth". Mallory is a shiny reflection of Lady Macbeth. Ellie, the shiny reflection of the President. And Zoey is just Zoey. Thankfully there were no dogs.

It's funny to see young people on KZbin thinking Toby Ziegler owned some far left Senator when this sort of thing will bite you all in the ass when you're at retirement age.

Are there actors that are better at playing complete d-bags than Ed Begley, Jr.? If there are, I'm not aware of them. He's so good at it, it makes one question where the line between acting and reality lies. Richard Schiff, as always, is an absolute beast. Any scene he's in, I'm just waiting for him to eat the other actors' lunches for them.

I like to read Camus "the myth of Sisyhus" I always feel better .

Well, in the 1990s Democrats recognized the need to reform the Social Security ponzi scheme; where was Joe Biden back then?

Some of the early seasons of "The West Wing" was very good writing. This was back when Sorkin did not go full Hollywood libtard and had the confidence to show that sometimes being intelligent responsible adults means you have to have disagreements with people on "your own side" of the political spectrum. This is what made the scenes compelling, you really had to keep thinking about what you just saw and have ongoing debates about who was right and wrong and there was a lot of nuance. Fast forward to "The Newsroom" and Sorkin lost that ability or desire to have nuanced debate and dialogue. The "bad" people were clearly delineated as blond hair, blue-suited middled aged men with essentially a "hi! I'm a Republlican" name tag coming off the screen. These "bad" conservatives would spout off very clear bigotry or hate for the hero liberal to smack down. These later Sorkin scenes had all the nuance, intelligence, and suspense as a STeven Seagal bar room fight. Just set up the dumb bad guys for the hero to knock down.

What's a cola in a political sense?

I WAS LOOKONG FOR THIS EPISODE FOREVER I FUCKING LOVE THAT SONG

Isso é muito bom pra colocar de toque de celular

Why is odin in the white house????😂😂😂

A liberal Democrat senator from the state of North Dakota?? FICTION!

Odin

I knew odin from god of war seemed familiar. Had to look this up and no wonder. Haven’t seen this show in 13 years and I remember this actor from a videogame character which is wild

So was Ed Begley Jr char based on Byron Dorgan?

oh my fkin god bruh ....this shit made me bust my gut out laughing

This guy would have actually owned Toby's ass. Toby is really lucky he didn't call his bluff or Bartlett would have lost to Ritchie.

What’s the name of the song?

Maturity is realizing that toby is what's wrong with the Democratic party

He's based on Albert Anastasia the executioner.

It is interesting (and sad) that 25 years later liberal issues discussed in The West Wing, are still only being discussed - such as the future of social security, the cost of college education, the cost of drugs and healthcare. Even the risks of pandemics were touched on in the series.

".... I'm gonna own your ass." ("And I'll make you pay for the shipping.")

🗽

Coming back to this after watching Better Call Saul and seeing him again playing Saul's new boss. What a great actor

meow

"You don't think I won't publicly condem a member of my party"... If democrat's stop eating their own, they would win more. Something that republicans' figured out long ago but the democrats still haven't. Rashida Tlaib's response to the State of the Union speech by her own party is the latest example.

Ayo?

In the universe of the West Wing there’s a Democrat Senator from Idaho and North Dakota, and the party is still in the minority.

Huh. Watching this clip help crystallize what's always bothered me about the WW. There's plenty of smart and snappy dialogue and the President is likeable and says the right things. But, in the end, they are just middle of the road corporate democrats. Right here - Toby doesn't even deny that they are moving to the right on the environment, they are considering options to "reform" (meaning privatize or reduce benefits on) Social Security and they are on the wrong side of police brutality. They can have all of the smart dialogue and interesting characters they want, but the are middle of the road on so many issues. Another great example is the Ainsley character. Very likeable, but they go out of their way to support her conservative ideas in so many scenes, it's hard to really understand what the Bartlet administration really stands for beyond the president being a "good man". I mean there's also the entire thing where Josh pushes for allowing the republicans in Congress to get a supreme court nominee so they can have theirs and have a balanced court. In some kind of theoretical world that might be a good idea, but in the real world where the next conservative president is going to nominate all conservative judges, how is that a good idea?

Imagine telling off a guy with a line from Finding Nemo.

one of my favorite videos

That was a cute show, but there has never been anybody in the White House who acted or spoke anything like these people act and speak.

This has aged like milk. Like lot of West Wing.

The funniest thing about this scene is that toby was pretty much wrong about everything.

Democrats "governing responsibly" always means snubbing their base (working people) and basically doing what republicans want.

Ya he would we already know that

"You just named three groups that will never desert the president" and we wonder how we got Biden over Sanders.....

imagine thinking baldy is the good guy

why the Dems fail--they try to make friends out of idealogues who always will see them as the enemy. the result tends to be the lost opportunities that folks spot easily as the reason Dems fail.

With friends like this, who needs anemones. Yes, and with Democrats that defend cops beating innocent black kids, screwing with social security and failing to back reasonable climate change policies, who needs Republicans?

Toby isn’t a liberal.

One of the greatest shows in tv history.

And 15 years later in the real world, it turns out the Senator was right. Moderation and Republican appeasement became a deathly cancer for the Democrat party and the entire country/world for that matter.

Toby was being a patronizing SOB... and also right.

She's not even attractive

Shiny boots of leather

Shiny shiny