@@korbinianjohn5797 hey thats a good tip, ive been wondering if those sounds were annoying or not. Glad you liked the vid!

@@alexanderkraken7920 wow Wyll’s Reversal is a very intriguing card. I briefly tried playing the new Untimely Malfunction out of the sb which is a bit more versatile and cheaper, albeit less powerful than Reversal. I found that even holding up two mana was a lot to ask for the deck since the painter is overall a very sorcery speed deck. It tries to hold up one mana for blasting, but holding up two or three is a tall order. So im cautious about Reversal but i might try it soon. Thanks for the idea and the kind words!

@@thefloodedstrand Thanks for you answer as well! Today was a great day of Legacy tournament on my LGS, I Wyll's Reversal a Force of Vigor and it was key for the victory!

Hey thanks! I have experimented with a SB bridge a ton actually. In the current meta I don't mind being a bit soft to Marit Lage, which is my main reason for having bridge in general. But right now, I'm enjoying having bridge main, not due to an increase in 20/20s, but because it is having a ton of ancillary benefits stopping barrowgoyfs, trolls, eldrazi, archons, etc. A quick reanimated monster is really hard for this deck to deal with. So I find bridge main to help a bi, while also keeping me ready for those 20/20s. As for Coating, I find that I'm solid enough against control decks where I think Coating shines. It can be hard to get Coating out with Karn on the board vs other matchups. So I'm not feeling the need strongly for Coating. Additionally, painter's only real weakness vs control is Wrath of the Skies, which also scoops up Coating. So it doesn't address a weakness for the deck imo. I've been enjoying Boil to help the control matchups. Omen of Fire is also on my radar as a fun, spicy card that also hits D&T. Mtgo doesn't seem to have that tho. Lattice is a similar situation. I should mess with it a bit, but it can be hard to land that alongside a Karn. Painter obviously does a solid job of getting to 6 mana. Maybe it's worth experimenting.

Hey thank you a ton!

You and me both! I also love the Tide/Phantatog version. Basically after playing a ton of matches with it, I kept feeling like I needed more UMPH from my creatures. I would hold the fort long enough to get the Tide combo executed in one of its many forms. But then I couldn't close the match. If the wurms get answered, I'd be trying to win with a 1/2 Tog or a 2/2 Mage. There were enough times where my opponent crept back in and won after losing 4-5 lands that I realized I needed a tad more power in the deck. Winter Orb is of course easier to pull off than a Tide + ___ combo. Winter Orb is pretty dang good against a lot of the scary decks in the format: Replenish, Enchantress, WU Control, and WB Control. Replenish can land the Tide combo more easily and often quicker than me, so I needed something else for that matchup. Winter Orb also requires enablers/helpers (Gush, Undiscovered Paradise, Mox Diamond) that are probably just better cards overall than Tide's enablers (Phantatog, Stifle, Ray of Revelation). Lastly, and probably the straw that broke my back, is that by switching to Winter Orb I could switch from Phantatog back to Wild Mongrel and had a couple more slots to play with which allowed me to squeeze in Call of the Herd. I really value Call for it's help in control matches, burn too, and simply adding power to the deck. Regarding Call vs. Roar, I see them as being different entities for the deck. I generally don't want to draw Roar (although the Familiar and Mongrel provide back-stops in case I do draw it) and just want to Quiet Spec for it. While I would generally love to draw Call because it's card advantage by itself. And I don't want to Quiet Spec for it because it's not impactful as just a 3/3 from the yard without having already given me value from being cast from hand. I agree that Mox may or may not be perfect for the deck. It helps keep my mana flowing even while an Orb is in play, and so it arguably synergizes better with Orb than Tide. It ends up being a rough late game draw in a deck that already runs 4 Familiars and 22 lands. So almost half the deck is "air." HOWEVER, with the inclusion of Gush, I feel like Mox's place is cemented. I often Gush and then draw into Mox which allows me to make quick use of the islands now flooding my hand. That's won me some games. This is all without talking about Mox's mana fixing and ramp. I'm more and more seeing the necessity of some ramp in the format. My next experiments are going to be playing a couple Opts in place of a couple Familiars. I love the dang wall, but I need to smooth out my mana curve, help with mulligans, and help not flooding. That was a lot! I took a couple days because I wanted to get back to you thoroughly! I'll be curious to hear what you think.

@@thefloodedstrand Wow , thanks SO much for the detailed response! I'm pretty new to this format, but I loved the original Treva Tide list as it played so many of my favorite cards from my childhood (QS, RotW, Phantatog, Sunscape Familiar, etc.). Everything you said made a ton of sense, though I'm bummed to hear the more optimized version has to throw some of my faves on the sacrificial altar. From my experience tampering with the original build, I definitely understand what you mean about getting more out of your creatures. Sometimes Mages and Togs can get there, but this deck isn't a full control shell: it's lacking more versatile removal (counterspells and disenchants) and even card draw is a bit niche (QS is great, but can only fetch limited options, Deep Analysis is strong, but painful). I wonder if going down a Tog/Stifle/Quiet Spec in the original build and adding +2 CotH would help add some additional card advantage without making the Tide combo too inconsistent. QSing for a reduced CotH off Familiar isn't the worst thing to do in a pinch. As for the moxes, I agree with your assessment that they're very helpful in the orb build. They're a dream purchase for me eventually (once I find a new job), but right now I only have one. Thanks so much for uploading the content! It's really good and really underrated. I appreciate you talking through the decks and offering thoughtful commentary. Your hard work is appreciated!

@@kovala Hey thank you a ton, super kind words. It's been fun dabbling with this content creation thing. Here's where I got with the CotH addition to Treva Tide Control a while back. Never tested it enough, but there still might be something there. www.moxfield.com/decks/Z-4zQx2Vl0iF0dAWeMMUWA

Hope you can get those Moxes one day :)

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Hey thank you for the nice feedback! It's funny you're also on 2 cauldron. It's a weird number to be on, but I've been creeping back on it. The UB froginator deck is still a menace for painter imho. And the black goyfs (both nether and barrow) are a menace for this deck. So hard to (reliably) kill. So I think repeatable graveyard hate is the way to go. So I'm fairly high on Soul Cauldron right now. I'm playing a third in the SB along with Devourer so that I can have a decent win-con against the decks that maindeck Emrakul and negate our usual grind combo. I'll probably switch to Ghost Vacuum once that's legal since repeatable gyard hate for 1 mana is so valuable against Froginator.

I was noticing that. I drew well against lands and mediocre against mono black.

Learning exp 😈

@@Tcrosse haha yup. is what it is!

@@Tcrosse Ain’t that the truth!

That glut of two drops is something to keep an eye on and might necessitate the 4th mox?? Or just some diversification

@@Tcrosse yeah, no waves, no tides (i think you meant). I love phantatog but I kept finding that i needed my creatures to have a lil more umph. So had to find a different disruption plan that worked around that.

@@Tcrosseyeah i was actually thinking about that today. With the wall obviously the mana curve becomes insane. Without it, 3 mana is baaaaad.

Hey of course! It's probably my favorite format right now.

😂😂

Hey thank you for flagging that. Appreciate the compliment too!

@@lieike hey yeah that is a good suggestion, in fact in the past ive mostly tested with the boots, so will be going back to them soon probably.

Hey thank you! Going to be putting out a mix of more net-decky decks soon :)

Ey thank you! So far just testing but ill do some leagues and showcase challenges soon. The new version Im testing has a less painful mana base too!

I actually thought I was losing in a bunch of them!

It’s good and fun, the wall makes it all so much more affordable.

I was going to time out so I just conceded with the score 1 to 1.

Thanks g 🦾

Hey thanks! It's probably not better overall, but I'm really liking it. It might have a slight edge against burn and goblins compared to classic Replenish, but even that I can't say for certain yet :)

Deck is your own idea? On what deck you put brushhoppers in ?@@thefloodedstrand

@@WatchThatFast I wish I could say that it was my idea but I got it from that first mtgo showcase. It was the second place deck in that tourney.

@@WatchThatFast and I bring in the Brushhopper if I suspect that my opponent will have good graveyard hate or just a ton of removal. So I’ve brought it in against mono black aggro with withered wretch. White weenies with Phyrexian furnace and crypt.

@@WatchThatFast and also it can be useful if opponent is also an oath deck. Both players may side out some oaths, and having an additional threat that can even hide itself from an oath is useful.