Then try the exact same exercise that I played with an UT tuning. It will not, by definition, have this consonance. It can't. Go chromatically up and imitate exactly what I did. UT cannot achieve consistency chromatically.

@@PianoSens-ey8jb But that's the point! UT enables keys to open doors to different sounds . . . and how I tune UT isn't how conventional pianotechs understand how to tune. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKfVeIlrbb-md7c is a recent concert. There are two ways to tune and I tune the other.

@@unequally-tempered UT theoretically simply cannot achieve consonances of the 5ths, 4ths, octaves, 12ths, double octaves, and 19ths in a symmetrically balanced way. The consonance intervals are universal to all music. Hence, it is the purest way and most consistent chromatically as well.

@@PianoSens-ey8jb UT isn't meant to. Music involves also perfect thirds and minor thirds of varying widths and emotion is conveyed by such. Just as the clue is in the word "key" and what a key does in opening a door, Chromatic means colour which is not achieved in Equal Temperament by going up a staircase of pitches. It is achieved, however, in the places to which doors are opened by keys.

I haven't really thought of that, but it's possible! It reads string movement and produces the sound from the strings, which is the input into the soundboard of an acoustic piano.

Sure thing. I'd consider making a CASIO DG-20 (MIDI guitar) kind of instrument with such system in place.

No one recommends 'removing' the moving red indicator. The freeze indicator is a 'target' and the moving red indicator is a guide to use for adjusting the hammer in real time to get you to the freeze target of zero at the last attack.

Totally awesome! It is the 'real deal' device. It speaks for itself. I just need to get my customers to tell their peers about it like you are doing! Thanks. I am here to serve, let me know if you ever want help or advice. Best, Steve

When the Pure-12th tuning concept, invented by a German theorist Bernard Stopper, came out, it was a breakthrough. It simplified all aspects of tuning. All we need to do it tune 12th's and everything else falls in line. Kent Swafford, former president of the PTG, wrote many articles on it which can be found on the PTG archives. No more need to do aural tuning (by ear), as a machine tuning that can detect the 12ths is simply the new way.

@@PianoSens-ey8jb Hello, I know all about Bernhard Stopper (R.I.P.). I know some people who had personal contact with him. And I know about the PTG by Kent Swafford - I use his tunings, too (available for Verituner). But to compare intervals with ear should always a skill - THE skill - in my opinion. And as I wrote: I tune with verituner, because I can use historical temperaments. Only to tune by machine won’t give the deep understanding, why this particular interval sounds like it sounds. Because of a little more stretching in 19th interval (octave+fifth; you write 12th and I know why 😉) 3:1 (octave by Werckmeister was 2:1) there is the result, that the thirds and 10ths are wider in a very minimum way. The masking of beating only works with chords. But how does it sound in e.g. Inventions of Bach which are only in two voices? Once I heard a sample (it is on YT, played by Sokolov), with a very “harsh” sounding 10th. Stopper is not completely beatless, octaves are wider-yes the Pythagorean “Komma” is not in the fifths but splitted in the octaves. There is a saying in Germany: “Jeder Vorteil wird mit einem Nachteil erkauft.“ Translated 1:1: “For every advantage you buy, you will get another disadvantage.” In other words: “No advantage with another disadvantage.” Think, you know what I mean. The disadvantages are-in my opinion-the wider thirds and 10ths. But that is MY opinion. And I think it is okay to tell that. Kent Swafford has a 26th tuning… Also interesting… And that is, what I meant, what I wanted to hear in your vid --- thirds, sixths, 10ths… The octave you’ve showed is absolutely remarkable! The first trust is the app, because of my acute hearing loss 5 years ago (that was the reason to buy Verituner); especially in the high treble I love to use the app - BUT the final control and trust is my ear. And after the acute hearing loss I learned new. And I love to tune by ear. I have built some wood-tools---for the 19th (octave+fifth) and the double-octave. :)

@@SickNick1998 Nick, if you really want unreal never-hear-before tuning, use the PianoSens device. I was shocking everyone at the convention last week with it. My users are all saying they are getting tunings they didn't think possible before. PianoSens.com

The device is best thought of as a super microphone that does not hear acoustic waves but reads string movement at the source instead. It has a frequency response from 0 Hz to 22 kHz. It has no problem reading 27.5 Hz. Your ETD software would determine how to interpret your tuning overall. The device has no bias of frequency.

I am familiar with the phase vocoder. I use a different approach to get ultra fine grain frequency estimate between FFT bins that is better in this application. Thanks for the reference.

I am using the 12ths curve.

I am the inventor and researcher for the Freeze. I personally believe all notes should be the same freeze setting. 700 msec is my recommendation.

If I lay the sensor 90-deg on its side it still picks up less of the false beat. The acoustic false beat can occur from undamped strings, for example.

I did not say the fundamental is 'important' for tuning. I simply say that the fundamental IS present in the string.

Slightly less of a 'ping' on the attack, a bit softer.

Same experience.

He doesn't have to support any particular operating system since it acts like a microphone which can be hooked up to a dedicated tuning device. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a pickup like found in a guitar which would mean it would work with anything that has an audio input.

Pianoscope, and with my PianoSens sensor

Thank you very much, Rick!

I am familiar with Bernhard Stopper's approach; there are better tools now.

Can you demonstrate it😃@@PianoSens-ey8jb

It has nothing to do with mics. It has everything to do with dual modes of resonance and how these modes are resonated on the soundboard and where these resonance spots are on the soundboard, and that is why the sensor is the solution, bypassing the soundboard.

PianoSens.com

Your iPhone has a Lightning port which is good for both charging AND for external devices. No problem.

The top tuners in the world, many of them, I could name them, use 2x to 3x per second attack rates. It is fundamentally a smearing of the ETD's inability to keep up.

Give it a try!

@@PianoSens-ey8jb I would love to. Is it possible to use the device for uprights? How will it be attached to the strings?

Matlab (Mathworks.com)

PianoSens.com, for sale, buy on line

The fundamental isn’t audible but yeah it’s always there in some extent.

On a great concert grand, the fundamental is about 9 dB down in the lowest notes, and that is VERY audible. My research and measurements prove that and there is an unfortunate 'myth' of the so-called missing fundamental. I have shaken up people with my measurements and results. It's hard to change people's opinions even with the measurements and proof.

@@PianoSens-ey8jb 9db doesn't sound like much but human hearing sensitivity diminishes very fast in the sub 100Hz range. So realistically it's probably "audibly" 20 or 30dB lower compared to your second and third harmonics. And missing fundamental IS a thing... its just the concept that you can trick someone into thinking a note is lower than it actually is by synthesizing a note that begins on a 1st, 2nd, or higher overtone.

It is extremely apparent in the time domain view as the periodicity occurs and is very easy to see, the periods are the fundamental. So, the 'missing fundamental' is a myth propagated by people who are not signal processing engineers and who have not done their homework and not done careful measurement experiments on a large concert grand. I have a whole slide set on this subject. Everyone is simply 'wrong' who have not studied it as I have. Sadly.@@Jwellsuhhuh

I understand, but what I mean is that missing fundamental is still a concept applicable to synthesized sounds, despite obviously not applying to the vast majority of acoustic signals like pianos. Also keep in mind that everyone has differing perspectives on the matter that are all equally relevant and appropriate. Most people tend to prioritize what their own ears hear, despite them being very inconsistent and variable from person to person. Because what the ear hears is arguably what's most important. Yes the measurements can tell you a whole different story but its hard to generalize those uncompensated findings to the unpredictable world of human hearing.@@PianoSens-ey8jb

[email protected] , and the website should be up

If you bought it, you should do a test to see if you were manipulated into spending $600 on a sub $20 magnetic pickup like a guitar has. The test seems to confirm this on my end as the pickup works the same as the product being shown in this video.