I honestly was surprised by how many people bring up Evangelion around Persona. It does make a lot of sense when I think about it, but I never made the connection on my own.

Oh yeah, I would be surprised if I found out stands weren't the original inspiration of Personas, though Persona took it in a more psychological direction. There are some aspects of that in Jojo, though I feel like Araki mostly wanted a stylish way to have super powers that make good puzzles in real world story. I haven't read past part 5 though, so maybe I haven't gotten to the Jung yet.

Ha, pretty much. The mainline is always "well, the world is doomed, now what?" Though I would argue a lot of the neutral endings could be framed as "saving the world".

@Generallybreak Right but at the point the original world ended a long time ago.

Thanks for that! I mostly take the sub count to mean I need to release faster, and get better at being approachable, but I try my best.

Oh, that's an interesting idea! I can think of a few reasons. One I kind of allude to in the video; the Jester archetype as a figure with a strange sort of power, and maybe more broadly the trickster archetype as a whole. Tricksters sort of exist outside of the status quo, and have the power to upend it. This can be a very good thing (Persona 5) or a very destructive thing (Persona 2). The "evil clown" seems like a very good image of the negative trickster. Another is the way that traits can meld together in a shadow figure; someone who is overly serious will begin to manifest clownish traits in their shadow, which will meld with whatever other dark traits might be there. I think Batman/the Joker is probably the best example of this. I think there might also be an element of an evil clown as being a good depiction of lost innocence; something that was delightful as a child now infused with the cruelty we come to see as we grow up. Stephen King's It stands out to me as the clearest example here. You're definitely asking some interesting questions, if you do start uploading, please do let me know!

That's a meaty reply; thanks for giving me more to think about! I think I agree with you on the broad strokes here; Nyx certainly on one level represents the unconscious, though I'd say she's presented as more of a Shadow figure than a Self figure, there's more emphasis on the unknowability and terror of it, but less on the aspirational aspects or individuation. I'd say Philemon is a more definite avatar of the Self. (I think there's a few lines in Persona 2 to that effect? I can't remember them off hand.) I still disagree on some some specifics; I think the story is fairly clear they imagine the Fool as being something outside of Nyx, and I think the duality and tension that points to is also an important part of what the writers wanted to community. I would point out that the Fool is certainly part of Nyx Avatar regardless of which of us is right; Pharos's contact with Makoto means he would carry the full set of human archetypes. If the Fall were to happen, that could mean some interesting times for Nyx.

@@Generallybreak Yeah, I don't disagree with the fact that Nyx is too terrifying and alien to be the Self per se. That's why I commented she's the *unconscious* Self, more akin to the Abraxas described in Seven Sermons, or Yahweh in Answer to Job. I also think is a funny coincidence how Phanes, the orphic god born out of the cosmic egg and husband to Nyx, was the "counterpart" to Abraxas. And speaking about creativity deities... Yes, I don't think there's going to be any cleared Self figure (beyond the Universe/World, I think) than Philemon; hardly a contest when the game itself called it the archetypal creativity of the unconcious. Still, I think Jose may be hinting something else, considering his cosmic and flower motifs, and those vague answers.

A video on Futaba's palace is in the pipeline, and it's honestly one I'm really excited for. I will probably do one about palaces more generally first, to help establish why Futaba's is so weird.

I'm glad you liked it! And you've reminded me I really need to read more Campbell. His tarot book is so hard to get a copy of. :(

I dunno, Evangelion has that nice encouraging support group scene at the end. But now that I think about it, you're pretty right. I hadn't even thought about the resemblances like humanity being descended from an ancient god like alien, and a cult seeking to end humanity. I might have to touch back on the Evangelion lore...

@@Generallybreak Forgive me for making this suggestion. But Kill la Kill also references this too.

@@maltesegeek1 I can't believe you've done this.

Thanks for watching, man! When I played through P4G and P5R I wasn't quite sure what to make of the new arcana, but I think this theory ties together how Persona seems to imagine the arcana work, and the more extended lore.

My fellow psychology hobbiest, my GOAT.

It honestly surprises me that psychology isn't a bigger topic in the Persona community, the games aren't exactly shy about their inspiration.

Introverted thinker, actually, but let me try explaining again to see if this makes more sense... From Jung's definition in Psychological Types: "Feeling is primarily a process that takes place between the ego and a given content, a process, moreover, that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection ('like' or 'dislike'). [...] Hence feeling is a kind of judgment, differing from intellectual judgment in that its aim is not to establish conceptual relations but to set up a subjective criterion of acceptance or rejection." My characterization of that would be that while the Thinking function relies more on a conscious process of reasoning, the Feeling function relies more on unconscious processes to evaluate how we feel toward something. That's not a bad thing, I think people who rely more on Feeling often have better assessments than those who rely more on the Thinking function; the unconscious mind has access to more information and more "processing power". The downsides to the function is that because the work largely takes place outside of consciousness, it's very difficult to articulate why we feel certain ways in a way that's clear or convincing. Jung's view was that both functions are essential, and problems will arise if we privilege either one too much over the other. Does that make any more sense? Since I'm naturally more inclined toward Thinking, I want to be especially careful to be fair in my characterization of the functions that are maybe less developed in me.

@@Generallybreak I'm gonna say that... no, really. That seems to also include some parts of Intuition as well. But again, the difficulty to intellectually define Feeling is that it goes against its very own nature. "Naturally the above definitions do not give the essence of feeling-they only describe it from outside. The intellect proves incapable of formulating the real nature of feeling in conceptual terms, since thinking belongs to a category incommensurable with feeling; in fact, no basic psychological function can ever be completely expressed by another." The same applies to Intuition and Sensation, but in Feeling goes double due to its antithetical nature to Thinking.

Jung was hesitant to say whether complexes like personas are "conscious", but they are a kind of mind-within-a-mind that have their own sort of intelligence and reasoning. Because of this, they can take physical form in the games using psychic energy. I go into a bit more detail about this in my videos on the Realms of Persona and the Nature of Desire. My next video will also be going into more detail on this.

Appreciated, man! I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your completed Persona 3 thoughts, then 2026 or so when you finish P5.

I know what you mean. Persona 3 (FES in my case) was one of those rare games that massively changed how I look at the world, and really drove me to understand the world better and improve myself. In a way this channel is kind of me trying to share everything that game taught me. The next video will deal a lot more deeply with shadows. Still scripting it, but I think it's coming together.

Thanks a bunch!

Thanks, man! I'm usually a lurker too, but any bit of engagement means a ton to a small channel.

That's definitely a point I'm nervous about. The animated cutscenes were moody, but also had a kind of creepy fluidity to them that you rarely see outside of like horror movies. I'm hoping they're able to match that quality in the remake, but it's a tall order.

Thanks! Working on the script for the next video now.

I do my best!

Yeah, there are so many layers to enjoy the Persona games on. Honestly, the best version of the Persona 2 games are the PSP remakes; they added a decent amount of content to the stories and made nice improvements. The big problem with that is that Eternal Punishment never got a western release. If you have access to it, playing them emulated on PC is probably the best. You can use HD texture mods which make them look a lot better, and there was a fan translation of Eternal Punishment that released not too long ago. Feel free to hit us up on the Discord if you need any help setting that up. But anyway you can play them is still great. They're fantastic and very under-rated games.

I'm glad you found value in this! Hoping to do better with the next few videos.

That's a pretty good way to put it. I guess it will "feel" different in the sense of a streamlined UI, but it's really about evoking the atmosphere and feelings of playing it.

Thanks! I'm doing my best.

Thanks, man. I was honestly pretty nervous because I usually spend weeks sitting on things like this, but I thought it would be more useful to get this one out shortly after the trailer dropped.

Great to hear! Next video will hopefully be up in the next few weeks.

Thanks! I honestly felt pretty nervous about the quality. By the time I got to the end of the video I was looking back on older sections and feeling they weren't up to snuff. I ended up giving myself a New Year's deadline just because I thought I'd be revising it forever if I didn't give myself a deadline.

@@Generallybreak I thought it was a great video, enjoyed the whole thing, definitely made me think too. I can't wait for whenever you put out another one!

@@jdroberts9634 Thanks, man! I'm starting scripting on the next one now. It should be a lot shorter than this one, and I should already have all the footage I need, so hopefully it will come out a lot faster than this.

@@Generallybreak I'm definitely interested in it then!

You're probably right. I got a bit hung up what would fit well and not be distracting. Probably should have used some long cut of one of the ambiance songs from one of the games. I'll see if I can find a good one for the next video.

Appreciated; happy new year!