This was so, so excellent. Thank you.

I don't know a country, society or religion that are not patriarchal in some level and being submissive is at the core of the idea of feminity. No society want to face childhood abuse as systemic. Parents often view their offspring as property and rulers of their lives. Just taking in consideration that most people who are diagnosed as BPD are women, viewing the effects of patriarchy can't be avoided either because there's is a machismo bias in psychology and psychiatry diagnosis and/or it's societies's values which is at the root of the problem by considering abusing girls and women is somehow "normal" and needed.

Best description of how some therapists fear or DISCOUNT clients who express ANGER or TEARS! That therapist is STILL holding & HIDING their own unfinished business!!!! 😮😢😅

Tricky when the client doesn't buy into parts work tho.

Lier…. He was not anti jew. shame on u!

Thanks for talking about adoption as trauma. This is a huge problem with the adoption industry and foster care system. Preverbal traumas go under the radar and are dismissed. Yet the adoption industrial complex depends upon the imposed trauma of relinquishment and separation while never addressing it. Adult adpted people find it incumbent on themselves to have to deal with it.

Fear comes to coexist with caregiving. Brilliant.

The enforcement of strict gender roles in the US makes it difficult here to destigmatize BPD or change the name. It is difficult for women to be individuals here. We have to conform. Dr. Fisher is a rarity. Most women prefer to punish traumatized women instead of helping those who don’t fit into a box.

Overall, a very good introduction. One note: Around 1:01:00 Ms. Sanderson contends that people who were sexually abused, and then fear that other people would judge them if they were to reveal that abuse, suffer from a 'lack of mentalization'. She suggested this is because the survivor feels ashamed, and so they imagine everyone else would react identically. More nuance could be used there. In fact, survivors of abuse *are* often shamed by people outside of them 1. when they experience the abuse 2. when they reveal the abuse. Expecting another person to react in a shaming way can be a sensible expectation. Certainly, the assumption that *all* people would react shamingly would potentially be a 'lack of mentalization'. However, being afraid of someone reacting shamingly is often reasonable to an abuse survivor's experience, and treating that as a kind of 'thought mistake' can be inaccurate and harmful.

Hmmmmm

Damn!

Promo-SM 👌

This entire lecture was like a cool drink of water in the middle of the Sahara. It helps so much to know that there are people in this field who want to help and understand. As that is what we’re turning to them so desperately for.

Great presentation! 👏 BPD is such a problematic diagnosis for women.

Ruth is a very animated and entertaining story teller...Tracy with her mmming is a very seasoned poker player..well played.

Thank you for this really informative lecture.

I've met a BPD chick three years ago and we started dating. What a ride. At times it was horrible. The pushing away, the hatred, the distrust etc. But she was an awesome, caring human at the same time. From the begining, we were going to therapy together. She made trumendous progress. I was probably the only one who truly knew, who she was inside. Behind this defensive wall of BPD. A great partner for life, great human, who just was hurt as small child and hence doesn't trust the world. She is a true keeper. I married her and we have great happy mariage. All she needed was someone who would belive in her and not abandon her. That is the sad thing about BPD. All they need is to be loved, but all they do is to push everyone away.

Thank you at 42 I have come realise I carry bpd! It was late diagnosis due to being very high functioning in all other areas… and I have and am experiencing so many life changes now! I don’t know how love feels.. other than the love i have for my children! Who have now both grown and left the nest! It’s like my purpose has gone! I am trying to get therapy and having emdr 🙏🏻

Ty 🙏 so much wisdom

Wow- dimming down the senses is exactly how I've already described my 20 year struggle with chronic derealization. Life without our sensory experience lacks so much beauty😢

say MMMMmmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmm one more time....

This lady reminds me of my therapist 😊

I really appreciate this lecture. I also want to point out that MBT avoids some of the difficulties you were mentioning regarding Kernberg about 53 minutes in. I’m a MBT practitioner trained by Anthony Bateman and a somatic trauma informed practitioner trained by Albert Wong.

I like hearing suicidal thoughts, intents, just referring to suicide in ways that show the intent to kill yourself is not exactly the goal. Pay attention! But ….. I overdosed several times. My goal wasn’t to die. I wanted to be able like on Bewitched to twitch my nose and make everything stop until I got caught up. The last time I was more intentional. I took enough pills that may have been enough. I laid on the bed for a while then came my moment of gratitude for dissociation. I forgot they could track me by the phone and I called the Suicide Prevention Hotline. A woman answered. I asked her to talk to me until I fell asleep. The bad part of dissociation made me forget they could find me if I called anyone. Then the good, healthy dissociative part got me to call for help. I was surprised when the front door burst open and there were stomping rushing feet. It took me decades to figure out because it was a long time for me to figure out I had been dissociating my whole life. 40:03

This really hit hard. I am listening to it again and had something occur to me. That silence might feel punishing when youre used to neglect. That would explain a lot for me..

What is the funky ring the interviewer is wearing?Wearable health device or Bluetooth audio...

The practice ok. The concept... Dr Deb. We are not our nervous system. It all starts and end with us, WE. Our nervous systems only reflect our inner states. This vision is still reductionistic, again, with other words, we are saying the problem with perpetrators is their biology. As is still thought about mental illnes, etc.

This is the most insightful and complete explanation of trauma and BPD I've heard. It shocks me how aptly Dr Fisher's descriptions apply to my own experience. I'd read about BPD and wondered whether or not it applied to me. But the DSM description and practitioners' explanations of it were discouragingly off-putting and imprecise. This is due to the relationship between science-based psychology documented in the DSM compared with less scientifically proven trauma healing practices not covered by health insurance. I experienced anxiety and depression and saw a psychologist who referred me to a psychiatrist who prescribed meds. All this was in an effort for me to be able to sleep and keep my job during a troubled time. Every prescription I tried was either not sleep enhancing or knocked me out and left me dazed on awakening. I needed a way to calm down without the deleterious side effects. Apparently that's a conundrum in modern western society. Finally I discovered something helpful...Celestial Seasonings Sleepytime Lavender teabags. Normally it seems people drink this tea before bedtime, but I drank it all day. Not that it's habit-forming. But it put me in a much more useful mind state during stressful periods, decreasing default mode thinking while creating greater clarity of intentional thinking such as problem solving. In other words, I could both sleep at night and perform my day job. It works for me, but I often don't use it except in times of higher stress. I also took a Transcendal Meditation class, which was recommended by a few people. Since TM is a mantra based style of meditation, it is considered the most straightforward to learn and become helpful within relatively less time. It is a different experience for each individual however. For me, this practice produced a calming effect with consistent practice that increased over time. It requires consistent practice 20 minutes twice a day. Personally, I spent more time on weekend mornings with my TM practice. And the most beneficial calm was more pronounced when I meditated at 3am. It also helped me go back to sleep. I maintained this practice a couple of years and it truly helped me become calmer with some reliability. Eventually I stumbled over somatic practices as part of a western Buddhist meditation and study group from Boulder, CO. I read their books and listened to audio talks and guided practices. Eventually I took a number of their courses as well. It put me on a journey to realize what trauma is, how the body stores trauma and how one's traumatic event(s) may or may not be experienced by someone else as trauma. It led me to read Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk. Both of these resources helped me understand more about trauma. But it still didn't really help me understand how a person who grew up with my family life could be labeled with anxiety, depression, or bipolar...in other words as a disordered human. What I realized about myself was that my tolerance window was higher than many others. There are many factors that determine the variety of experience between humans: generational experience of trauma, genetics, environmental such as sunlight exposure, presence of trees, water, nature in general, breath practices, physical exercise, spiritual practices, societal or familial childrearing, story telling, presence of acceptance, love, kindness, and sharing with others and self. Part of my higher tolerance window was decidedly due to my practice of running 4 days a week usually 24 miles a week or more. I ran marathons (26.2 miles) and ultras. I hiked, swam and rode my bike although I never considered myself a natural athlete. What was the driving force? I knew for a fact that it was my drug. I totally realized it when I became unable to exercise. Exercise and being outdoors has an incredible impact on mental and physical health. A psychiatrist told me this in 1998 for the first time... *after* I told him that my clinical depression began 1-2 weeks after I broke my foot. After I told him I'd been an amateur athlete over 20 years. Not every person is able to physically or mentally able to sustain an exercise regimen, especially if they don't believe it helps them. Perhaps it's a challenge to sustain any kind of exercise regimen or belief in anything as long as one is in a demotivated or low state of mind. Belief plays an important role in how we humans approach the world. That means that an individual's perception of the world is essential to their felt sense of the world. If one can't exercise, they can probably do yogic breathing or pranayama or humming or chanting om or singing. The vagal stimulus of this practice has calmed the state of mind before meditation practice for monks for ages.

Spot on.

This is glorious. I'm struggling emotionally after being smacked in the face by some pretty world bending realizations, keeping up with my research focused on therapy but feeling overwhelmed and not knowing how to find which emotions are mine. And then this goofball stomps around to a Monty Python skit. There I am. Thanks.

Spot on!

The way this encapsulated my experience down to a t. That said, I don’t enjoy the stigma of bpd, but I do like that the general point of the term can capture how chaotic it is to have. Our minds are messy, but this might be my age and my presence online creates a bias

How we train a dog out of classical conditioning is how you train a traumatized 'default mode network' _ this small human was imprinted in a hostile environments _ this small child grew up to survive hostile environments _ you know like the one we presently live in. I'll survive Putin, Trump, Trudeau etc as they take our health care, our pensions,our education system,our safety_ Ill survive cause my monster patents already abused me and I survived. And Ill survive this cultural Holocaust of our democracy _ only because I read ' Power of the Powerless_ and realize that _ our leaders are dissociated and in need some trauma therapy.

Thank you for this presentation Deb. and thank you for saying the reality: the perpetrators, whoever they are have a history of dysregulated NS and supporting regulating it would benefit not only themselves but those they are in contact with. We are talking here about inter generational / transgenerational dysregulation. Psycho ed. must go to societal systems that hold power: judiciary, schools, police, religious institutions ... and I am suggesting a mandatory training for the politicians hahaha [and I am actually serious about this ;) ]

My father was beaten with a brick until he complied to hand his little ones over to the orangemans abuse society for stepford wife creation_ I have two grandpa's who were 33 degrees nuts. I can reassure you that much of the dissociation out there is due to the organized abuse of babies so these children grow as adults who will dissociate to be used as deployable agents. I've watch many of these sessions of disintegration_ and I am one of these kids who figured out eventually that I had to pretend to dissociate for them to stop breaking my bones. Wow _what a trip_when the denial defense mechanism doesn't work anymore. Glory be to the Jesus who held me through all my childhood abuse.

Definitely some (trauma)attachment issues in people with bpd. But I personally don’t think it explains it all. My mom has schizo affective/bpd, her mom was schizo affective. I inherited the emotional instability, but no bipolar/psychosis, but full on bpd, with the rapid mood changes, impulsivity etc. I don’t think that was because of any major trauma. I didn’t bond with my (npd)dad, but could with my mom, and was pretty happy until my teens. When my mom started to get her first psychosis I had no one really after 10y to offer emotional support, guidance. Because of being bullied I started to cut myself in my teen years. Till this day, 36y old, I still self harm on and off. A lot of love addiction and unhealthy habits in between. I mostly become dysregulated after getting rejected or from perceived rejections. But even in my stable periods I’m more depressed, hopeless, negative than not. My mom’s upbringing was truly traumatic, but I can see the same emotional sensitivity in her that I have, when something stresses her out it expresses itself in hearing voices, sometimes hallucinations, periods of being manic, but also acting out and threatening to off herself when she doesn’t get her way. So yeah I think a lot of my vulnerabilities are probably genetic. And I probably could’ve grown up, had a normal stable life myself, if my mom’s mental health didn’t deteriorate that much. But the emotional vulnerabilities/temperament was always there probably, plus environment, not having emotionally available parents anymore= developed bpd. I suppose everyone is different, and might have developed it differently. Or there should just be better screening, different labels for more genetic/brain types of borderline and trauma induced. And sometimes it seems like it’s a bit of a chicken/egg type of situation. People in families with cluster B personalities/brains/genetics traumatize the next generation. But was it the trauma or the faulty genetics, emotional vulnerabilities that came first.. I don’t have sexual trauma’s, or beyond some neglect, bullying have things in my past that I need to process now, and if I do I could be healed. Just a different perspective. Anyway still an interesting talk.

adult traumatized react the same

Fantastic presentation. Please keep posting content like this from experts. It's so valuable.

TLDR : Avoid re enacting facial expressions and body postures of the client and be mindful of your posture and make it distinct from your client. It will happen naturally but one must keep coming out of it. Although it helps with empathy coming out of the posture can help with seperation. mirroring in the treatment of Trauma - mirror with body only for a short time. just enough to touch the experience. Empathy is a somatic experience. - avoid helplessness by holding a posture that feels safe for you! Be safe in an embodied way. - track your own internal activation as a therapist. What can I protect myself from resonance? - whose feeling is whose? - you need to realise that this isnt your reality. Its their reality and you are a helper. Imagine yourself that you are on the margin of a clients life pool.

I really enjoyed the podcast. I do have a few issues. Will someone in somatic psychology tell us how and where our bodies store memory ? So far I have not heard the how and where memory neurons are in the body once. If not memory neurons then how ? How does our body sense danger ? I would like someone to explain this to us. All other branches of psychology (24) seems to me focus on the brain an the effects on thoughts, emotions and body. Many things Dr. Arielle said was brain science to me.

My favourite chart of body reactions ❤! It's always there, and well worn from use, too!

Curious about what to do when you don't press on the breaks as a therapist, and the therapist gets dysregulated and in the dangerous zone. Wonder what she would suggest a therapist to do when its already in the danger zone, vs heading towards it. If the therapist is noticing, heart beating, panic, urge to run away, heat and cold, etc. What does one do when/if this occurs?

DBT is ineffective on clients with a history of abuse/neglect….

Thank you 😊

This is so well expressed. Indeed traumatic attachment disorder is a much better descriptor.

I never thought of killing myself _ because i was surrounded by so many sick people i had to stay sane_ i was everyones caregiver_

Wonderful explanation that validates and puts words to my experience! The part that touched me the most was the slide that seemed to flip two sides of the same card, comparing cptsd and bpd. I dont have a bpd diagnosis but i have a note in my medical record that mentions it and it has poisoned providers ability to think and give me a correct diagnosis for my physical issues. I have ANS dysfunction known as dysautonomia, trauma is one of the possible causes for the condition

I had an experience in a psyche hospital (while under observation) where (I previously believed) was a sleepwalking episode ( because of past experiences) I remember kind of like part of a dream Im taking a shower scrubbing my body with a 4 foot ceiling fluorescent light bulb. But it wasnt a dream. When (I) came to ? the next morning (I) was all bandaged up and in a different but more secure room under total observation. I later asked the head psychiatrist there if he thought (I) was trying to kill myself and he said yes. But this wasnt a so called conscious act.? Yes I have been diagnosed with Dissociative amnesia otherwise not specified, but more to be revealed as (Im ) one of the more complex/complicated cases. (I have assulted a doctor in the past which could be in relation to being traumatized by hospital and doctors in the past especially in early childhood. Thats when (I) first started sleep walking and one time in childhood actually fell from a 2nd story window on to the concrete. Now Im wondering ifit was a dissociative fugue and not sleepwalking because one time I woke in a mental hospital and didn't know where I was or how I got there. The episode at the hospital came about because I was maxed out on my antipsychotic med 40 mg. Zyprexa and 12-1400 mg. Tegratol. That had no effect so my doctor changed me to Seroquil and somewhere in my increases around 700 mg.s I started sleepwalking(?) again so they bought me in for observation( that was the shower light bulb incident.

Dr. Fisher you are a treasure. Thank you for continuing to advocate for all the abuse victims that have lost their voice. 👏

How is this possible that this gem of a lecture has so few views (let alone likes)?