out of all those artists the most questionable is K. Rodriguez her art isn't anything special if anything its something a gradeschool student could come up with and her claiming to make that much amount of money per month is actually baffling.. altho she does sell a some notion templates

Random thought....she probably pushes up her glasses like that to avoid getting paint and other art supplies all over the glasses/lenses 😂 either that or she is a serious One Piece fan....

I’m an aspiring artist as well. I recently came across a video of a popular artist showing how she tried to make money as an artist. I watched the video of her creating an account on this website for the first time to sell her art and she mentioned multiple times she’s bad at promoting and the social media stuff. I felt the content was relatable and showed the difficulties she faced. Not until the very end of the video - I’m not even exaggerating it was at the very end - that she mentioned that she was sponsored by this website! I honestly felt so deceived because she made it seem like it’s her first attempt to make money as an artist when in reality she wasn’t even a user of that website. That’s not even a way she used before to make money yet she’s trying to sell it to us. She only did the video because of the sponsorship. Even the comments mentioned “you’re not bad at promoting because this entire video is a promotion”

I think there's this really interesting divide between 'art' youtubers and the side of art youtube I watch, which would be working artists that also run a KZbin channel. So people like Ethan Becker or Moderndayjames. They still make money off of content and education stuff but they're primarily making money working in the industries their audiences are either trying to break into or are already in. I do art full-time as well as a concept artist in videogames and always saw art youtube as the hobbyist domain. Aspirational cozy entertainment sorta content that's more influencer adjacent. Compared to art-industry youtube which tends to be focused on hard skills like fundamentals improvement, or portfolio reviews. A lot of the more casual side of art youtube tends to either run a small business or some sort of merch store. They're still legit businesses, smart, savvy and entertaining, but realistically speaking not a sustainable or attainable model to be a full-time working artist for most people. Art is inherently stupidly competitive, and takes massive effort for relatively little reward. I don't see the realities of being a production or gallery artist talked much about either on youtube. Like animators being unemployed for months during the year basically being industry standard, or how fucking tedious and competitive art jobs can be, or how if you want to work in games understanding documentation and engine limitations/hitting deadlines is probably more important than delivering the perfect illustration. I'll see posts in forums talking about headaches like taxes and invoicing, but rarely on YT. Which is fine! It makes for boring content tbh, but if you're pointing to yourself as an example of a working artist presenting a pathway to do the same, it muddies things. Fun video, best of luck with your shop!

13:50 I’ll put my two cents and add that many artists do say how much time content creations takes up when in reality they wish they could be using that time to make art/sell art but as mentioned that’s very hard without an audience

Really liked your disclaimer!! ❤ I wonder if this discussion is just the 21st century equivalent of great artists using apprentices historically. We often look at a work by a great master and are impressed by their skill, but we forget about apprentices supporting them - without that help, they would not have been half as successful. Maybe these people *are* fulltime artists but we do not want to recognise all te things it takes to be a fulltime *working* artist, rather than someone with immense privilege that affords them the time and resources to only do purely artistic creation.

I generally disagree with the notion that KR preys on young and naive artists. She is selling her knowledge yes but it seems like a lot of her knowledge that would actually be helpful for beginner artists is free on her channel. They dont really need to buy her stuff. Because eventually from watching her channel they will see "oh I really need to build my skills before I get into buisness and marketing" at least I think any one with common sense and who is serious about their career rather than lost in the fantasy and romance of art buisness would find that her content is a wakeup call. I personally felt like her channel gave me a very realistic and detailed view of what full time art buisness looks like and it helped me make a well thought out plan for the future of my art. It helped me decide to try content creation because I could see myself actually enjoying that to support myself. However if I don't I have a more complete picture of what my back up plan might look like.

Make videos about making your art...No advice, no gossiping, just make art and let the chips fall where they may. At least that's what I think.

I've been a professional digtal artist for almost 30 years . My clients don't care what i call myself, they care that my pictures look good. I make pictures, videos, and i teach. I also help people work together. I only really care about supporting my family, supporting my friends (many of which i also work with ) and .. that my next image is better than the last one . Its thats process of improvement that i call being an artist. Lastly , Most of my work involves collabration with others, and the best people to work with are compassionate and wise. No one wants to work with a d***. Morgue sounds like a d*** .

I just wish those artists were more honest. Whether we like it or not, those youtubers are mainly entertainers and influencers. Being from that niche already makes you show an idealized world to an audience, and imo it fools them a little to think they'll be successful. They'll not always be successful, and I wish more content creators showed the nitty and gritty of things. They don't tell hiw competitive this market is, how the truth is that they're all doing things to catch the audience's attention and profit off of them. The truth is that they're influencers and influencers are manipulators. But that isn't something pretty to tell, and it can nake your audience go away, so they don't tell you that. Kelsey is honest but that's part of her business strategy, making herself an authority in the market. We rarely see content creators being 100% honest about their field because it's detrimental to their business.

Making a living as an artist is a privilege. Most artists not going to make it.

tbh I think the reality that a lot of people don't want to face is that being a full time artist is not sustainable for a lot of people. The reason why a lot of artists have to survive off of youtube or sponsorships is because simply selling art doesn't pay the bills. I went to a fine arts school too and everyone who graduated with me does not have work in the gallery art space but instead became teachers or graphic designers. It just isn't viable for most people to sell art independently without multiple sources of income. KZbinrs are selling a dream that just doesn't work. I honestly regret wasting time in fine arts and am now working on getting into video game art which is an infinitely more viable career even despite the horrible layoffs. A lot of artists are just too afraid to face reality.

I think you have some very good points to add to the conversation. Something I am wondering, is why content creation isn’t seen as an art form of itself. It can be very creative work with a clear vision and workflow. Your empty file is your clear canvas, where you can add clips, music, text and storyline. People who make KZbin videos can have very distinct editing styles. Just some food for thought.

I just came across your channel and I absolutely love/100% agree with everything that you said in this video. I also truly appreciate your authenticity. I agree that it’s important as an artist, to treat this as a business. Just like we need to know how to budget our income and expenses in our everyday lives, we also need to be intelligent about how we do it when it comes to pursuing our passions. I did the opposite route as you. I got my BBA several years ago and *now* I’m learning how to draw and watercolour, something that I’ve wanted to learn since I was *much* younger. On a separate note, where you mentioned your chronic condition, it might be a good idea to apply for the Disability Tax Credit as it reduces the amount of income tax that you need to pay. Being approved for that also qualifies you for the RDSP. There’s not a ton of information online about it, but either on cbc or cra’s websites, I saw information that beginning nect year, people who qualify for the dtc will also receive a $200/monthly payment, as those that experience chronic conditions and disabilities suffer more economic hardship than able bodied Canadians. Keep up the great work Ruby!

I don't think professional artists have a choice in whether or not they have to scam viewers or not. If you're a content creator and you did A/B testing on your thumbnail, and one thumbnail says "I made $10,000 from my art", and another says "I made $10,000 from my art business", one is going to get a ton of views and the other isn't. You don't have the time and energy to sit every subscriber down and explain to them why their dreams of just only making art is unrealistic. You just change the thumbnail so that your video doesn't get buried by the algorithm.

I think the main issue of this controversy are artists displacing their frustrations with the economy onto other artists just trying to survive it

How to make money as a full time artist. Tell people how to make money as a full time artist. Change the word artist with any other job/career. Its not really a scam imo its just the meta for anyone on KZbin. I always thought of it as them saying "hey i make money selling art but when times are ruff i do X."

well i used your video while making my art so you're doing something right, hope your channel grows from france🥰

Funny enough, making videos is an art form in and of itself .-.;; or at the very least it *can* be And people complaining that people who aren't making their primary income from just selling art itself are... clueless and oblivious to the reality of being an artist in this day and age. That's just the reality. Many people have to supplement with part-times to ensure survival. Probably most actually. People who are able to do it full-time do use multiple revenue streams, such as KZbin or books. Hell, even teaching is a part of that too. Should we exclude instructors...? LOL. =_=;;

AI works wonders for those these days, especially those padding them at conventions. Not many originals glad all my art is originally digitally drawn. Yes I look at pictures as references but that’s it nothin more.

I personally think there is a big difference in how people react to this, depending on whether they want to make art their actual career, or they simply would rather keep it as a hobby. If you are an artist right now, working in the industry, especially if you are a freelance artist, illustrator, game designer, animator, etc, you (unfortunately) need to sell yourself. There is simply no way around it. When you work in a company, you need to network, and having a good online social media presence is the equivalent to that, you will have to be doing if youre gonna be a freelance artist. Which can be annoying, yes, especially if youre not big into having an online presence etc, which I know a lot of artists dont. But there is a niche you can find for yourself. I always felt like Kelsey was simply sharing her side of the story, the facts of her own artistic career, not trying to say that her way is the only way to be a successful artist. And it seems that even just watching her videos for a bit made a lot of people realize that they DONT want to do art professionally, which is also very valid imo.

<3!

I'm very much in the middle on this as I can see points to either side of argumentation. (Although it's not fair to call Kelsey a scam or a pyramid scheme, I think that was too harsh. On the other hand I also felt like Kelsey's response might have been a bit unproportionate considering Morgue is such a small creator). I want to raise a few points I haven't yet seen mentioned in any of the comment sections: For me personally there's a bit of a disconnect with how Kelsey talks about business which I feel is based on a cultural divide. The kind of rags to riches idea that everyone can make it no matter their background or means is very American to me. That's a mentality I find a bit hard to relate to as a European, especially as someone who is working as a full time artist and is very aware of the fact I mostly am able to have this life because I come from a very privileged background. It's not a negative thing to believe in the American dream, especially as an American, but it pushes a very romanticized narrative that might not be true for everyone watching and that can be problematic for more impressionable younger folks. Morgue felt to me like a person who has become quite disillusioned with that idea or the fact that being a full time artist sometimes also means being a fulltime business and marketing person as well. And I can relate to the frustration. My other point is that the Art youtuber / art content creator niche is a very specific niche of the art industry. Kelsey's advice works super well for artists that utilize social media to make sales. It's absolutely a very valid career choice and just because someone diversifies their income through social media doesn't mean they're not an artist. However that's only a small part of the art industry and there are many many other careers that simply function differently and don't rely on you making sales and getting engagement. I work in the entertainment industry and at the beginning of my career I was very confused on how exactly to break into the industry and earn money. Videos like Kelsey's, while extremely helpful for a certain niche, confused me a lot and made me worry about aspects of my career that in reality weren't even important in my line of work. I spent years trying to figure out algorithms and business strategies before I realized I don't even need social media in my particular field of work :') A lot of time wasted that I could've used to hone my skills in other areas. Now that's obviously on me for being misinformed but I think these type of business guru videos can sometimes do more harm than good. That said Kelsey is obviously free to create and post any type of content she likes and people should just decide for themselves if the advice she gives applies to them or not, you can't fault her for catering to a specific niche. That in itself is also a smart business move from her. All that to say that I personally really like Kelsey, even though a lot of her advice doesn't apply to me. She seems to be a sweet and genuine person who's able to reflect on herself and her role on this platform. I was sad that she felt the need to justify why she calls herself an artist, no one should have to do that! So I hope this whole discussion didn't put her down too much. Same goes for Morgue, I just wish both of them the best in figuring out where they're going.

If she is selling how she made it as an artist and she hasn’t made it as an artist but rather a business major. Then she is a scammer. Tbh I found a lot of the claims made in this video to be misrepresentations of the arguments made in the other video. So it kinda sounds like you already know your opinion on if or not if Kelsey is a scammer. At best, this comes off as if you misunderstood some points and missed sections of the original video. At worst…. It comes off as malicious

If you make art and have a channel based on art.. you are a full time artist. I teach my video production and graphic design students that 90% of your job isn’t doing art, it’s doing everything else to make the art happen. At most 10% is the process and creating, the rest is running the business, marketing, networking, accounting, self care, hiring, freelancing, writing contracts etc. if you make money based on art you ARE AN ARTIST 😊 Second controversial take, content is the enemy of art. They can exist together but they serve two different masters. Almost Ying and Yang but content is pure evil and art is the exhalation of the evil.

I think we're having the wrong discussion, we should be talking about what really defines and artist and what is art. I don't even consider Kelsey Rodriguez an artist at all. Sure, she can paint a little, with the emphasis on little, but it's not art what she's making. People like Andrew Tischler, Erik Koeppel, just to name a few, those are real artists. Kelsey and many KZbinrs that call themselves artists, are artist wannebees at best. If you look at how Kelsey is using certain materials and how ignorant her reviews are so often, it's so clear she's not an artist at all. As so many, she's an artisan, who sells art creations, but doesn't create artworks. Just because you paint something, you're not an artist. I watched one of her videos last evening where she worked on a painting for a whole year. The painting is so basically elementary that one wonders why anyone would even work on it for a whole year. What no one talks about is how it takes discipline to make a real work of art. How you have to better yourself year after year, putting in the work to get skilled and get to know techniques. The reason so many KZbinrs calling themselves artists need to be on KZbin to even have an income is because they don't create paintings that are worth what real art is worth. They can't make a living from their art, because the need to sell their creations for peanuts and not for at least $250 to $10,000 or more per painting. I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to be an artist and create art, she clearly lack the drive and discipline to become a proper artist. She never outgrew the hobbyist mentality and that's the problem with most KZbinrs calling themselves artists. They're just hobbyist posing as artists. They all create creative content, not art. Art is of a whole other level and requires a whole different level of skill... something you won't even get from going to an art school. There are many content creators on KZbin, many creative people, but there are only few artists on it.

I like Kelsey and I think her content is fine. My issue is a lot of the videos say the same things without really saying a whole lot imo. It feels like a regurgitation of the same 3-5 bits of actual advice. I think that's why the studio vlog type videos are less polarizing.

Also, art influencers that do make money with their art should be more honest because most of them are supported (or at least were in the beginning) by their family or partner

Tbh they shouldn't advertise the video as "How I make XXX$ as a full time artist" but more as "How I make XXX$ as an art INFLUENCER" they don't really make money with their art in itself but with their videos

Please don’t change what u do because of other opinions … imagine saying I won’t say I’m a full time artists if u make content… wtf no ! u are! If you want these critical people as ur audience… sure pander to them, but it’s also ok to repel people

It’s wild to me how people think you’re not an artist if u make money in other ways… at the end of the day if you make art… you’re an artist. If they make money in other ways, they are making sure they can survive lol😂 some artists can make money purely off their art, most can’t because as a whole, people don’t value it as much as other things in life not realising most things they buy have been designed by some one lol but I digress 😂.. I do think artists online who say they make this money as an artist and do not disclose how they made it with any transparency then we have an issue with false hope, but it]f they’re honest and Kelsey has shown how she makes money many times, then no she’s not creating false hope. Most KZbinrs use clickbait so I’m disregarding that. Anyway that’s my opinion. Anyone hating on her is envious of her success when they feel their art is better imo

Hey they're artists, not economists.

Honestly.... It's just weird to gatekeep the word "artist" just because you're doing things in the video other than art. Working as an artist encompasses a lot of things from pre-production, production and post-production. So from planning the craft to producing then to selling it or publishing it and I think it's valid to share all of those processes including the reality of making a business out of it. It's just the matter of the audience if they're going to take the advice or not. It's just out there for people who are curious. It was odd to also call Kelsey's video scammy. kelsey is still an art youtube who focuses on sharing her knowledge in the entrepreneurial side of art. Which we all need. That topic isn't taught in school. You can be good at your craft but are not knowledgeable enough to promote it or make a business out of it. I have a Bachelors of Science in Advertising and as much as we would focus on the creative side of Advertising I was thankful enough to have courses that relate to marketing and business and that helped me tons in making art as a means of income. There's also a matter of having luck in business. Sometimes, it's all about luck. And if we haven't reached that milestone in our business endeavors we continue to work hard and follow the steps to grow our art business. Idk I feel like I'm rambling, Idk if i make sense anymore ahahahha

Watching multiple artist with businesses have to explain this basic common sense stuff and now I know why some of these artist are poor.

Interesting

I love how u are just addressing the problems. Instead of resulting to mocking them ❤

I think for the most part, the original video was right about Kelsey. I was subscribed to her and for a while I got really confused thinking I kept watching the same video from her over and over and when I checked, nope! Turns out she just makes kinda the same content over and over and over and it's almost never actually related to her art. It's all about notion and KZbin and affiliate marketing etc etc. That original video kinda just put into words the thoughts I already had and I no longer think I can watch her videos.

I don’t think that Kelsey is running a pyramid scheme, but I do think she is “selling a dream” a bit. Diversifying your income is an important, but misunderstood part of art careers. I would consider myself a professional artist but up until recently a good portion of my income came from working at an arts nonprofit and I received criticism from people outside the industry saying that I could could only be a professional artist if my full time income came from sales. I think it’s a similar, unfair criticism for art content creators who make money from posting vlogs about their career. Kelsey is a bit of a different case. Because she is creating content about how to make a full time income from art, and from selling courses about making a career out of art, but none of her content (that I’m aware of) is the ‘art’ part of her career. Yet her audience dreams about making the ‘art’ part of their careers, their careers. So I do think it’s fair to criticize her for that. That said, I think demonizing her, claiming that her content is malicious, or personal attacks against her is going way too far.

This video gave me a lot to think about and it’s interesting to hear the perspective of people just starting out in this field. I’ve been working in commercial art in various formats for almost 30 years. I started out in this industry where it was rare to have even a website to showcase your work. Times have definitely changed and social media is a fairly standard expectation and way to promote oneself, but it does eat up time. I was actually listening to this on my phone as I’m working on a mural at the moment, instead of filming footage of me working. When I first started out, it was simply getting the job done and having a printed portfolio to show to people that were interested. Now more than ever it’s about how invested people are and who you are, what you create, what you stand for, and even what you look like. The evolution of what it means to be a modern creative is absolutely wild in contrast over the last three decades. Personally, I’m not a fan of most how to earn this sort of money kind of videos because everyone’s path is ultimately different. I do appreciate the video you made, it was certainly thought-provoking and now makes me wanna make a video from an older artist perspective, because I can’t imagine how competitive and insane things will be in 30 more years.

Personally I’ve always heard Kelsey say that her content is business advice, I can’t see why it would come off to people as scammy because she’s always seems transparent that her main source of income comes from that but she is an artist, she has an online shop and you watch her paint. I don’t understand the issue personally. People that say “she’s selling the lifestyle” haven’t watched the videos where she has pointed out how long it’s taken her and everything she’s done to get there.

If you care about art, try to become a better artist, not a full time one. If you care about being your own boss, start any kind of business and do art on the side. I really dont believe you need to become content creator, I would never enjoy it

That video wasn't to state all artists on KZbin are scamming you, but more to indicate that lots of them aren't honest and do deceive their subscribers. And that's something on all platforms. Most show themselves better than they are, and from one side I get that and get why, but then they aren't honest about a lot of things, even when they are catched about it. So his video was great to have you thinking about it.

Letting you know that I had your video on while creating art ❤ I think content creation via showing an art process is a niche of its own. Not only marketing your store but giving motivation and inspiration to other artists, so it's understandable that you could make money via stuff like sponsorships, its a diffrent audience than a buyer.

I agree that putting a big number and saying they earn that is misleading and is what leaves so many of us frustrated after watching the video. Some of us just aren't cut out for content creation, god knows I tried to build an audience for over a decade.

Everything on this -lanes was designed by an artist and yet artists are disparaged and treated with disdain. Hours of work are looked at as not worth paying for yet people want what you can do because they can’t. I feel the same as you do and we all have a right to earn a living. Why should art be any different from other trades who also teach people and sell courses. It takes tremendous time,skill and effort to do these things. They do not happen by magic. My sister thinks I am a machine because I can do almost anything yet I have no life outside of creating as it takes a lot of work. I agree about it being honest and helpful.

My problem with Kelsey was that it felt like she didn't know what she was talking about. But maybe that's my problem. I went to business school and all of her advice seemed basic and not enough for me. It felt like she wanted to become an artist but she didn't have the art skills to do so. There are people in her nieche but the difference is that they have experience and success before teaching. Kelsey has started and ended as a content creator. She probably has good advice for content creator artists but I wouldn't go to her page for advice on any business that wants to focus on selling art and making content around art itself. Edit: My opinion on her formed when she had around 50k subscribers, so I'm not entirely sure if her advice has changed but it doesn't seem like it, based on the other comments.