the fact that this video is 46 minutes long only solidifies how complicated the system is, tbh.
@konstantinekahadze715321 күн бұрын
Great video but you have the word კლდს in an example. Could that be in old Georgian because in current Georgian I don’t think there are words without vowels
@grammarfellowhreodbeorht369114 күн бұрын
Thanks! More likely, I just made a mistake when forming the dative case.
@konstantinekahadze715321 күн бұрын
This is so cool as a Georgian speaker. One thing I want to ask though: you mention how it’s weird that to dance is treated in a similar way to these other transitive verbs but did you consider that dancing could be transitive in Georgian. Georgians can say somebody danced a certain type of dance like “the man danced Ajaruli” with the word Ajaruli marked as Nominative. It also makes sense to me as
@grammarfellowhreodbeorht369114 күн бұрын
This is a good point! Sometimes transitives can masquerade as intransitives when we don't say the direct object. I believe the dance verb is mentioned in my video on optional transitives -- we can use some syntactic tools to argue that this verb is sometimes genuinely intransitive, and other times transitive with a dropped or un-dropped object (like Ajaruli).
@pensivegrammaticus8876Ай бұрын
It seems to me that Thonmi was a competent classically-trained Sanskrit grammarian who applied his training to a different set of “tokens” (i.e., Tibetan rather than Sanskrit).
@pensivegrammaticus8876Ай бұрын
Is “name” like “nōmen” in Latin grammar?
@anidnmeno2 ай бұрын
shots fired
@T.h.e.T.i.n.o2 ай бұрын
In My Conlang, if u where to Romanize a Spelling Simplification in Latin "tt > tc" "cc > ct" it also looks wierd AF... but in the Native Scrip umthey just Changed the Line from up to doen; and Vice Versa 😅
@efenty62352 ай бұрын
གྱཏ་
@EkaitzIturbeltz2 ай бұрын
Bloody hell, and I thought my language was difficult...
@breadbunbun2 ай бұрын
I really really like this video and i think it really helps people understand why tibetan writing is the way it is instead of the often rude and condescending manner in which others treat tibetan. However i have one gripe with the video. I don't know if this was intentional, but you seem to be rather negative yourself about the indigenous religion of Tibet before Buddhism. And I don't think that's good, indigenous traditions are just a complex and rich as modern religions like Buddhism. After all, things like Hinduism itself was an indigenous religion at some point.
@nafismubashir24793 ай бұрын
Sanskrit had independent vowels but they can't be base letters whereas independant consonants could be.
@arthurgabriel26253 ай бұрын
I don't know why KZbin recommended this video, but I'm not gonna complain
@tomaszgarbino27742 ай бұрын
Same here. It's a pity the channel seems to have languished.
@yoobinator3 ай бұрын
On writing in verse, it’s really not too difficult to express yourself with clarity and brevity. Can’t speak for the Tibetan traditions, but the several I’m familiar with view meter and verse like a canvas to write upon. In kinda the same way classroom-English views sentences and paragraphs as natural divisions for an essay. So if you’re steeped in that kinda writing culture and you’re skilled in verse, writing flows naturally and it’s not an impediment at all.
@yoobinator3 ай бұрын
This further lends to what valeryushakov1516 was saying. Thonmi wrote in a roundabout way because he probably wanted to write in a roundabout way. Verse most likely didn’t constrain him in ways that would lead to those issues
@hippoAutwell3 ай бұрын
I would love to see or read about Tibetan phonology.
@bigbigfizzi3 ай бұрын
I used to speak ancient Russian. And after watching this video and doing some research about ancient Russian language, i had learned that my ancient Russian teacher duped me, had taken my money and had actually taught me modern Klingon instead. So i will leave you with this: .'Ter ,'chäl valhäla. Tarr'choon. (Tip: you must use a Klingon growly voice when saying this. And avoid spitting as well when saying this to anyone)
@EchoLog2 ай бұрын
Idk how to feel about this, on one hand, that's a scam. On the other hand, you learned Klingon "accidentally" which is scientifically quite the data point. Excellent comment, if you're not trolling that's incredible.
@埊4 ай бұрын
why does པོད་སྒད even use ་? it makes the text confusing
@joshyam40264 ай бұрын
It's so interesting to know most of the Indic languages still keep unaspirated/aspirated/unvoiced/unvoiced consonants while the neighboring languages like Thai or Tibetan which borrowed Devanagari-derivative scripts slowly lose four distinct consonantal articulation and developed onset pitch accent or tones (except Punjabi). A parallel phonetical development, for example is seen in the sound shift from the Archaic Chinese to modern Cantonese: Voiced initials change into low register tones with aspirated consonants while unvoiced, unaspirated initials developed into high register tones.
@AutoReport14 ай бұрын
So just like English /wr/ simplifies to /r/
@deithlan4 ай бұрын
Great video
@karimkobeissy39425 ай бұрын
DESERVE A SUB YOU ARE TOO UNDERRATED
@Nemo_Anom5 ай бұрын
Just from a simple historical linguistics/phonology lens, it's pretty clear that /wang/ comes from /dbang/ > /dvang/ > /zwang/ > /wang/.
@WannzKaswanАй бұрын
I haven't finished this video to the end so I might be wrong, but I don't understand the amateur's, especially conlanger's habit of inserting intermediate forms that aren't attested. Denoting it as /dbaŋ/ => /waŋ/ is perfectly fine. Maybe even /dbaŋ/ => */dwaŋ/ => /waŋ/ if you really want to have an intermediary.
@yimveerasak35435 ай бұрын
Thank you for your research
@9KariKiri65 ай бұрын
The structure and content of the text is typical of most Sanskrit treatises, and reminds of the Ashtadhyayi, which was the one which started the grammar craze. Although A does describe the sounds and pronunciation in detail, its mostly to dictate precise sounds during Vedic ritual recitations for a language which was actually long gone (Vedic Sanskrit), and since Buddhism doesn't have this concept of sound precision to the extent of Vedism, and knowledge of the alphabet was already assumed, i guess that's why they left it out
@mercianthane25035 ай бұрын
Tibetan writing is just beautiful, very beautiful.
@ChristianJiang5 ай бұрын
I wonder whether he was simply the first one to have written a grammar of Tibetan, and successive historiography turned him into the guy who invented Tibetan writing. Perhaps Tibetan writing evolved more organically?
@rbxq5 ай бұрын
Thank you for this recommendation, youtube. Very cool.
@Jy3pr66 ай бұрын
Hello. Do you have a favorite language?
@sKadazhnief6 ай бұрын
it's good for the SCs of Tibetan and the Tibetan script... however, you cannot pronounce any of the vowels correctly 😭😭
@DarkBlade376 ай бұрын
25:20 This isn’t a source for that, but an example of analogous evolution in another language. In the video “History of the Japanese Language” by LingoLizard, it is stated that the Old Japanese P (a bilabial plosive like B is) became an F-like sound in Early Middle Japanese, which (when between vowels) later became W. This W then dropped out when before any vowel except A (since the syllables wi/we/wo had merged into i/e/o centuries prior, so the Old Japanese original W had also already ceased to exist before non-A vowels, and wu never existed). There are, however, some points of disanalogy, as Japanese is not a tonal language and (if the glide Y and deceased glide W don’t count as clusters) its syllable structure never allowed consonant clusters in any position.
@joshyam40264 ай бұрын
Japanese is not a tonal language, but at least a pitch accent language, as attested from the documents of Heian Period. Though I am not a scholar, a synchronic or diachronic approach to languages are most likely a good start to understand seemingly chaotic spelling problems.
@DarkBlade373 ай бұрын
@@joshyam4026 BTW do you know Tibetan? I’m asking because there’s a point in the video which has a discrepancy between what the guy’s voice says and what the onscreen text says.
@siyacer6 ай бұрын
interesting
@kori2287 ай бұрын
22:39 I think that whole section about pre-initial consonants causing low tone aspirates to lose aspiration but gain voice is overly convoluted. Yes, modern Tibetan considers voicing secondary, but obviously the synchronic answer is it's voicing that conditioned tone. It was underlyingly /d/ that usually becomes low /tʰ/, but the m in the cluster /md/ prevented aspiration. Or something on those lines.
@DarkBlade376 ай бұрын
Btw, do you know what taut and loose mean in this video? I tried looking it up (just the first term) but couldn’t find any sources listing a definition related to phonology. I found some where the Google snippet previews for pages displayed some (seemingly contradictory) definitions, but I didn’t find those definitions when actually opening the webpages.
@kori2286 ай бұрын
@@DarkBlade37 what timecode minutes is that said?
@DarkBlade376 ай бұрын
@@kori228The first time is around 16:29
@kori2286 ай бұрын
@@DarkBlade37ah that's basically a more phonetic explanation of tonogenesis by glottal fold tension/pressure. The usual example of onset consonant tonogenesis is voiceless = high, voiced = low. Final consonant tonogenesis is final stops (especially a glottal stop) condition a rising/high tone; final fricatives condition a falling/low tone. But it's actually more complicated than that, it has to do with tension/pressure of the glottal folds. There's both voicing and phonation. I don't have a reference, but iirc it's: consonants that require closing the glottis cause a buildup of pressure that conditions a high pitch upon release (or condition a creak-to-phonation low>high=rising pitch), while consonants with an open glottis doesn't have that tension so it's kinda neutral. If the glottis is vibrating (i.e. voiced) or extra breath is forced through (i.e. breathy) though, it causes the sound to be murmured, lowering the pitch. Depending on where the consonant that conditions this phonation contrast is, it can lead to different pitch contours. An onset open-glottis voiced/breathy consonant will likely start low (though a open-glottis voiceless consonant like fricatives or aspirated stops start high), while a final open-glottis will likely end low. An onset tense glottis likely starts high (or creak-to-phonation low-high=rising) while a final tense-glottis can end high or low (it doesn't need to release the pressure at the end, so it may just end low creak without releasing into phonation).
@DarkBlade376 ай бұрын
@@kori228 So what is a basic definition of the terms taut and loose within the context of this video, and the specific letters which fall into each description? Thank you for the previous reply.
@thefutureisnow87677 ай бұрын
Why “They consider us righteous” is “მათ ჩვენ მართლები ვგინივართ” and “They consider you righteous” is “მათ შენ მართალი ჰგონიხარ”? I mean why is not ჰ- used in ვგინივართ instead of ვ- ?
@Just4Kixs7 ай бұрын
This video helped me understand more about Georgian grammar from a historical linguistics perspective. As a learner of Georgian, this video helped with understanding why there certain things are the way they are in modern Georgian.
@Just4Kixs7 ай бұрын
Also, Georgian is definitely undergoing even more change and evolution as I notice, especially with this new generation.
@dianasimons65158 ай бұрын
Thank you for this video.
@dianasimons65158 ай бұрын
As a student of Tibetan, I found this video very useful. You explained the evidential aspects that are usually not taught or not emphasized enough to students. At minute 16:14, I think the Past Egophoric should be pa-yin (not pa-yo'). Thank you so much for your efforts, I got a lot out of the video!
@kelsangchemi29188 ай бұрын
Thank you for your Hard Work and teaching..
@christopherellis266310 ай бұрын
Lovely. Basque has auxiliaries that are polysynthetic.
@stickss222 ай бұрын
Not necessarily. Heavily inflected, but in reality they are barely more so than a Farsi verb.
@christopherellis266310 ай бұрын
Thank you 🎉 I was in Mcleod Ganj in '89. This fills the gaps
@rickylumo866610 ай бұрын
This is so helpful. Thanks.
@rickylumo866610 ай бұрын
I don’t see རེད་འདུག་ here but your labels help. Essential-existential. Interesting.
@thequantumcat184 Жыл бұрын
As a Basque speaker, while there are many differences, it's cool to see the many similarities in the verb systems of Basque and Georgian
@yuuhemi Жыл бұрын
This was very helpful, thank you for this video
@MrAllmightyCornholioz Жыл бұрын
BUDDHA BLESS THE TIBETANS
@oleopanki Жыл бұрын
where I can find your videos? there are only 5 on KZbin
@995-h5d Жыл бұрын
2:04 "შეშას" is incorrect, it's "შაშს" (შაში - checkers)
@995-h5d Жыл бұрын
4:50 "აკეთება" is incorrect, it's "აკეთებს". Same for "გააკეთება", it's "გააკეთებს". 6:01 "ძაიღლება" is incorrect, it's "დაიღლება". 12:14 "იცეკვევს" is incorrect, it's "იცეკვებს"
@tornikegabunia6651 Жыл бұрын
Bro im georgian myself and your accent is amazing. You should keep posting
@hellboundtruck123 Жыл бұрын
Can anyone explain, when it is written clearly as bod བོད། why pronounce it as bho བཿོ ? When it is clearly written as chos ཆོས། why pronounce it as chhö ཆོ། when it is clearly written as vajra, why pronounce it as benza? When it is clearly written as jigsmed, why pronounce it jimé. There are no suffix or prefix here….
@Inescapeium Жыл бұрын
Tibetan spelling is dogshit in general
@Bzdm0 Жыл бұрын
In “བོད” or bod “d” or “ད” is the suffix and it changes the vowel sound “o” to “ö” hence it’s pronounced “bö”. Same with the word “chos”, “s” is the suffix so it changes the vowel sound to “ö”. “D” is the suffix in Jig-med. As for vajra (བཛྲ) being prounced benza is dependent on the speaker. The letter བ is pronounced either as “ba” or “wa” depending on the context like pillar is ཀ་བ (ka-ba). There maybe a “ba” in pillar/ka-ba but the ba is supposed to be pronounced as wa. In some dialects, people pronounce བ as wa in more words than others and vice versa. I have noted some Amdo Tibetan speakers prounced བོད་པ/bod-pa as wod-pa. Maybe the person that transliterated vajra thought བ would be fit to denote the “va/wa” sound since the latter is used as to denote “va/wa” sound in Tibetan words but the reader is more accustomed to pronouncing the letter as “ba”. Another example would be བབ/descend which I would pronounce as “bab” but I have Tibetans who speak other dialect prounced it as “wab”. The written script and language is uniform but the pronouncation is greatly influenced by the speakers/readers’ native dialect.
@valeryushakov1516 Жыл бұрын
Re silly ways of enumerating things. What people perhaps don't appreciate is how easily texts are corrupted when copied. Anyone who worked with Tibetan sources have their share of stories about comical and/or devious corruptions and misreadings. When you just list a single letter in isolation it's very easy for it to get mangled, without anyone even noticing whiskey tango foxtrot has happened too (look up e.g. "error correction and detection" in information theory). So long and roundabout ways of referring to things is also a layer of protection. It's much harder to accidentally garble "the last of the first row" than to accidentally write da instead of nga. It's not uncommon for tantras to re-spell mantras letter by letter in this way.
@grammarfellowhreodbeorht36914 ай бұрын
Great point!
@xanadu_mkw2005 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant video, top notch linguistics. Have you published anything academically?
@grammarfellowhreodbeorht3691 Жыл бұрын
Not in linguistics! I do math.
@xanadu_mkw2005 Жыл бұрын
@@grammarfellowhreodbeorht3691 Bummer! Hope to see more videos of yours in the near future.