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@skjold224 14 күн бұрын
The Giants are in the Legendarium. Tolkien wrote in a name-guide to LotR: Tarlang belonged to a group of giants who in "ancient days" were building the White Mountains in order to prevent Men from entering the giants' land close by the Sea. While carrying a heavy load of rocks, Tarlang stumbled and fell on his face, fatally breaking his neck. His corpse was used by the other giants to finish the wall: his remants formed the pass Tarlang's Neck (from the break in his neck), Dol Tarlang (consisting of his head), and Cûl Veleg and Cûl Bîn (remnants of his load of rocks) there grew up a local legend to explain the name. It was said that when ‘in ancient days’ some giants were building the White Mountains as a wall to keep Men out of their land by the Sea, one of them called Tarlang tripped and fell on his face and as he was carrying a heavy load of rocks on his head he broke his neck and was killed. The other giants used his body to complete the wall at that point, but left his neck lying southward, leading to the three mountains of the spur: Dol Tarlang ‘Tarlang’s Head’, Cul Veleg ‘Bigload’ and Cul Bin ‘Little Load’. The break in his neck was shown by a depression in the ridge, near the junction with Tarlang’s Head, over which the road went. THE PASSING OF THE GREY COMPANY 537 In consequence the Tarlang was called Achad Tarlang using another word for ‘neck’ (Q[uenya] axo), properly referring only to the bony vertebral part and not including the throat, this was generally called in the vernacular C[ommon] S[peech] Tarlang’s Neck. And in LotR its hinted to this: "And upon its out-thrust knee was the Guarded City, with its seven walls of stone so strong and old that it seemed to have been not builded but carven by giants out of the bones of the earth."
@wordsaboutbooks 11 күн бұрын
I think this is a reasonable argument, but I'm still not convinced that Tolkien intended giants to actually exist in this secondary world he created. This is evidence that he was playing with the idea. The reference in Lord of the Rings does not seem to me to indicate a belief in actual giants, but rather it is a poetic description of the walls. Tolkien's conceit that he did not write these stories, but merely translated them, means that he sometimes uses language that is a close approximation of what the characters were saying. For example, when Sam says "Lor' bless you" it is not meant to indicate that Sam has a particular religion. Tolkien mentions in letter 153 that the hobbits do not really practice any form of religion. It's meant to show Sam as the sort of working class person Tolkien's readers would be familiar with who would say something like "Lord bless you." As to the name guide. J.R.R. Tolkien may have written it, but he did not prepare it for publication nor did he choose to publish it. Christopher Tolkien did. Based on the other writings that Christopher Tolkien compiled and edited, I think Tolkien walked up to the edge of formally including giants in his mythology numerous times, but he almost always edits references to them out in later drafts. I think he wanted giants, but he didn't know how to make them fit into the broader mythology. In the material he finalized for publication while he was alive, I don't think there's compelling evidence for a race of giants. But it's also fair to say that there is enough smoke for there to be fire. Giants are a kind of Middle Earth cryptid to me. I don't believe in them, but I certainly can't prove that they don't exist.
@skjold224 8 күн бұрын
@@wordsaboutbooks Thanks for the answer. Wasn't that how Tolkien wrote? He did world-building and then when it came to the stories they were echoes of what have been? The name guide (Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings) were sent to translators by Tolkien while he lived - to avoid the bad translations as I understand it. So to me it clearly indicates that he fully embraced giants (also when seeing the hoops he jumped to erase Bilbos gift/found ring story - he changed names for Elves, Ork/Goblin (in the foreword), but didnt change giants in 2nd edition). Why even send out an origin story about giants to translators if not? I do agree he didnt get around to them later, but there were a continueous (and un-altered) vision of giants from Beren and Lúthien, The Hobbit to LotR and up through the 60s. And it fits nicely with The Misty Mountains being raised to hinder Oromë/Elves and The White Mountains made "to prevent Men" "An isléd hill there stood alone amid the valley, like a stone rolled from the mountains vast when giants in tumult hurtled past." - Beren and Lúthien
@HBMmaster 29 күн бұрын
Ben's maximalist stance is so fun
@wordsaboutbooks 29 күн бұрын
It was pointed out to me that Paper Mario is actually a series of storybooks that physically exist in the larger Super Mario reality. So I have since decided that those are also Super Mario Games. -Ben
@christophertablante7680 Ай бұрын
Thank you guys for being awesome. I laughed for the 1st time since tuesday. NightmareNovemberN8 speaking facts
@SmokeyLaBear Ай бұрын
So what happened to the election day stream? I was keeping an eye out for that.
@wordsaboutbooks Ай бұрын
The election was called a bit earlier than Nate expected. He also ran into some technical issues. If there's interest in a non-election Words About Books stream we can put something together when Ben is available to run it.
@Nitrotix1 Ай бұрын
Blame the two party system itself. Also Bobby Kennedy Jr was the closest to breaking it in history. That's why the DNC used unprecedented lawsuits and resources to keep him from being on the last couple of ballots necessary to make him a true third contender.
@christophertablante7680 Ай бұрын
Ah... I remember reading this book in the 7th grade, the main takeaway our class had was to be paranoid of your classmates stealing me' memories with thar dirty friggin' fingers... Quickly our school's student body broke into wareimg factions by homerooms to defend from the wacky english teach making us read about paenis envy... you wont make me reciever nuthin' Old Man Giver!! But yeah, I like your interperation better.
@laraargeri467 Ай бұрын
This is soooo coool, keep up the good work
@christophertablante7680 Ай бұрын
I actually like the straightcomic vs roastcomic criticism dynamic, its an interesting story about a story with a healthy dose of witty shittalkin
@harryanderson7282 2 ай бұрын
Just came here for the "Sprawl" chat. Thought "Ben" did a pretty darn good job putting things in thematic order, but that other guy's corny shtick got stale after about four seconds. He added nothing to the conversation other than the urge to simply fast-forward over his annoying voice. Like, if you have nothing meaningful/relevant to add to the conversion then just shut up. That said, where I think Mona Lisa Overdrive really shines is in its uplifting/transcendental pay-off. Meditating on it, I didn't feel at all cheated by the fact that Gibson was intelligent enough to treat his readers as potential equals in terms of existential speculation. I think though you may have a point about Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive should've being one book. I always felt that there should've been a full novel between Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive which centered more on the creation of the Aleph and the intrigue surrounding Bobby's discovery and theft of the device, but that's just a pet peeve of mine. The only real negative I ever had with this work was that it ended. But I guess Gibson staying honest to his muse must've realized he'd reached a point where the "human" elements in this story cycle had achieved their ends and that what would come afterwards may simply be beyond the power of mere words to express?
@CraftDutch 2 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for this talk, Ben. It was great to hear someone else's explanation of this complex book. Side note: The other guy who forgot what the book was about was really annoying throughout the entire podcast. Every time Ben tried to make an interesting point, the other guy would say something distracting and annoying and derail the conversation. Next time, Ben, a solo episode would be much better! Once again, thanks, Ben, for your talk about this book. There’s not much available on it in video or podcast format, so I was happy to hear your thoughts.
@Manimaniac-pw6eq 2 ай бұрын
I love this channel so far and the discussions on cyberpunk media, y'all are too underrated
@jamesnunn7181 2 ай бұрын
Once he said never make movies longer than 90 mins I realised he’s a moron. Switched off, never coming back
@dustinneely 2 ай бұрын
Trump! 2024 Trump! Trump! Trump!
@dustinneely 2 ай бұрын
Next Sci-Fi series suggestions: The Book of the New Sun Hyperion Cantos Foundation - Asimov Rama series - Arthur C. Clarke LLAP 🖖
@damonkowarsky 2 ай бұрын
27:11 that’s interesting. I read AG as an outsider, so my understanding of the US is way less than yours (but similar perhaps to NG’s). From this distance the things you talk about do not jar. But then again what NG says about Norse mythology does not jar either and I definitely know about as much about that as I did when I read the stories as a child. Perhaps the book is for people who know a little but not too much, and upsets both scholars of Norse mythology and Americans.
@damonkowarsky 2 ай бұрын
1:00:17 further the conversation about Shadow isn’t this half the point? After all later in the book Laura tells him he may not be dead but he’s not exactly alive either (I think she calls him a ‘great big man sized hole in the world’ or something). Talk about a 🔥 from a zombie 🧟
@EBMZEQUENZER 2 ай бұрын
No way a facehuger would impregnate an ape or a gorilla, they would rip it off their faces in instance acid or not : a chimp would tear it off and face f**k wouldn't stand a chance I seems to fit only human face and nothing else and this is where the film starts to make less and less sense And I never understood why these creatures had to break out from the chest there are 2 better exits 😁
@MrMellow2289 2 ай бұрын
Just started the video and I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I listened to the audible adaptation of the script and found it very odd and unsatisfying honestly. For some reason I thought it would be some sort of glorious godsend of a script.
@damonkowarsky 3 ай бұрын
Bobby Newmark was always as annoying as. His only real contribution to the book was to give as his handle its great title, which even other characters in the book thought ridiculous and overblown on him.
@wordsaboutbooks 3 ай бұрын
He's annoying for sure. I really enjoyed him, though, because he's such a great portrayal of a certain kind of person who was hanging around every "hacking" IRC and forum back in the day.
@cyrus9715 3 ай бұрын
I just wanted to hear about this book (I also didn't enjoy) and I got hit with a Tonga Loa bomb lmao
@MikePerry-bt9yv 4 ай бұрын
Awesome upload Thanks
@grantlauzon5237 4 ай бұрын
Game Grumps "Now That's What I Call Kissin Your Dad" 1:15:51
@grantlauzon5237 4 ай бұрын
I only have the audiobook. They do not speed up his voice as a narration as he's falling.
@grantlauzon5237 4 ай бұрын
In the first book they mentioned that the name Ghost Hunters Adventure Club was "the most search engine optimized". I don't know the time period but I imagine it's modern day and the people just look act like they're in a Wes Anderson movie.
@grantlauzon5237 4 ай бұрын
The conductor isn't described as looking like him, but I imagine the conductor as being played by Idris Elba. "Train Law" "It's encouraged"
@PBlueness 4 ай бұрын
My opinion is that the boxmaker is not the original Wintermute/Neuromancer, but the "memory" of Wintermute/Neuromancer...
@KeyserTheRedBeard 4 ай бұрын
Continue to keep the solid work. Extremely good post, Words About Books. {Can't wait|Looking forward
@MDBowron 4 ай бұрын
the short stories like "Fragments of a Hologram Rose" from 1977 to "Burning Chrome" and "Johnny Mnemonic" from 1981 were his first short stories, put together into the 1986 short story collection "Burning Chrome"
@kylegutek 4 ай бұрын
Guess I have to wait for LOTR now
@PBlueness 4 ай бұрын
GJ, it's not often for u to find a review about this book...
@oliverp7666 5 ай бұрын
History Matters
@ABulletsA 5 ай бұрын
Quick add: I thought the Loas were created by Neuromancer and Wintermute when they merged to communicate with humans in order to make an attempt to join with the other AI in Alpha Centauri.
@ABulletsA 5 ай бұрын
This podcast was great, I really needed some clarifications on some points after reading the book. You guys covered them all! Thank you!
@all_time_Jelly_Fish 5 ай бұрын
oh man, this is totally sitting on my book shelf right now! Thanks for giving me a reason to read it
@laylowstaylow 5 ай бұрын
Great job u guys did...
@lapz78 6 ай бұрын
Are you a “History Matters” fan
@Tofuey 6 ай бұрын
Lol
@tel_l 6 ай бұрын
To Mona, he was both boyfriend and pimp. But yes, very glad he got got'd
@tel_l 6 ай бұрын
To Eddie, Mona was just another scheme
@duxwex51 6 ай бұрын
"I guess going back to the book..." so fucking funny, hilarious video
@schadowizationproductions6205 8 ай бұрын
wtf this???
@indyrevoly3060 8 ай бұрын
They'll never stop the Star Wars! Have no fears, they've got stories for years, like Luke becomes a robot, Maybe Han gets a holophone, has Dooku ever owned a bear?
@drnaturalist 8 ай бұрын
Just discovering your channel and blog and I love it, keep up the good work.
@dustinneely 8 ай бұрын
Figures you guys would think Denis Villanueve is great. This adaptation is garbage.
@wordsaboutbooks 8 ай бұрын
You're talking to a man who loves basically everything Tolkien ever wrote and then had to live through The Hobbit trilogy. I've seen garbage. This isn't garbage. I wouldn't say it's pure Dune, though. For me, Dune IS Frank Herbert. The good and the bad. Every adaptation has made choices that I disagree with. In this one, I mostly like the story changes. Overall, it's capturing the parts of Dune that I personally like, and discarding a lot of the parts of Dune that I personally dislike. That said, I don't love all of the acting choices. It's an hour too long, and Hans Zimmer's score becomes very annoying by the end. I'm in no rush to watch it again, and if I didn't do this podcast I wouldn't have bothered watching it in the theater. Like it or hate it, I think it's a net good for the Dune books. More people are reading the books and talking about Dune than at any other point in my life. -Ben
@rufftonplaysgames2307 9 ай бұрын
Badass.
@madkinggaming3744 9 ай бұрын
Didn't expect this one. Entertaining either way.
@user-su6js9po4l 10 ай бұрын
james bissonette
@ianmatthewkline8279 10 ай бұрын
💯 about the “number lock” lol😂 spot on, sounded like me ranting haha
@dustinneely 10 ай бұрын
Dune 1984 40th Anniversary 2 days only February 18 & 19th 2024 Fathom Events. Get your tickets now! "The Spice must flow!"
@dustinneely 10 ай бұрын
I need you to hurry up and review Heretics of Dune & Chapterhouse Dune. I don't want to wait 2 years. I finished them and I need to hear you talk about sex kung-fu, Miles Teg being the coolest Dune character & what the heck that last chapter Frank Herbert wrote was about?
@wordsaboutbooks 10 ай бұрын
A double Dune-a-palooza just in time for the movie? This could work...🤔
@dustinneely 10 ай бұрын
@@wordsaboutbooks "Just do it!" - Shia LaBeof - Commentaries from the C.E.T. (Commission of Ecumenical Translators)
@bonedead789 10 ай бұрын
Just finished reading this and was looking for someone to help clarify the book. Glad I'm not the only one who struggled to understand the plot. Regarding Jackie being a "Horse", She does get possessed by the AI at the end of the book when she is helping Bobby do net runs. Also regarding how the AI saves the day at the end, I felt like that was a fun play on Deus Ex Machina since the god Machines literally saved the characters from certain death. That being said, it would have been fun to see Turner go John Wick on the gangs, or if the gangs were trying to bust in and they are fighting when Bobby finally kills Virek. Anyways, thanks for the good podcast!
@darthmemeious9526 11 ай бұрын
I've read the every book in the sprawil trilogy over 5 times each. the AI said itself that when they combined in unity. the form split in the middle as the mirror was flawed. and the individual fragments ran each their own way
@darthmemeious9526 11 ай бұрын
as beauvoir said, you dont have to worry about if its a religion or not, what we use it for is a concept. allowing us to talk about things we wouldnt normaly have words for
@darthmemeious9526 11 ай бұрын
Jackie is only being ridden with bobby when they meet the loa in the matrix, then once again off "camera" telling them turner is coming to jammer's with "the virgin"
@darthmemeious9526 11 ай бұрын
the artist talks of the time the ai was whole, i think whatever wintermute/neuromancer was when it combined. when the matrix rejected its unity. it escaped to a form it already knew and downloaded itself into the mainframe it linked through before. saving what it worked so hard for, as its still preferable to being dead or half the mind wintermute and neuromancer were