Really enjoyed this. There is a direct parallel between what Matt does for biomechanically optimum athletes that are mostly using canting to make small adjustments around zero based on discipline, and what a good fitter will do for recreational skiers that need 2* or 3*. The athlete can use the stock boot (0*) as a starting point for on-hill experimentation, and then adjust in or out from 0* to around 0.5* (or at most 1.0*) in, say, 0.25* increments, using duct tape, while staying within ISO. But an identical optimization can be used for a recreational skier. I got aligned in-shop at +2.0* L/+2.5* R, and the boots were canted and routered to those. Then I went skiing and sent video to my aligner, who had me add shims under the medial side of the right boot in 0.25* increments up to 0.75*, and send her that video as well. She found an added 0.5* was ideal, so I added that adjustment permanently. Once that was done, my one-legged carving was balanced on both sides. So what Matt does with his athletes is analogous to what a good fitter will do with recreational skiers in that, in both cases, the in-shop alignnment needs be followed by an on-snow assessment to dial things in. The key difference is that the rec skier may first need to be canted and routered to get to a proper starting point. As an aside, since Matt also works with instructors, many of whom aren't biomechanically near-perfect like WC athletes, and thus can need 2* to 3*, I'm wondering what his process is for them.

This is no Brent.

100th comment

Thank you Will for the excellent and articulate video. I’ve been a skier for decades, and have adapted my “technique” to have fun and ski at a relatively high level. However, I know, and have known for years, that both my stance, and more so my Leg Length Discrepancy (LLD) (right leg, approximately 1-1.5cm shorter), are keeping me from achieving a higher level of control and performance (and greater fun!). In addition to canting, have you done any fitment adjustments greater than 5-10mm for LLD? (More than what can be adjusted for in inner boot custom sole beds, etc). If not, do you have any recommendations? Thank you for your thoughts.

Sorry, but there is just too much negativity in this video. It's 16 minutes of "can't, can't, can't" - I don't need someone to tell me why my ski boots can't, because my boots *can* - they're awesome.

Where can I purchase one of these knee-center calipers I see in all of these videos?

Explainion is excellent

Lasers? How about this? If a person has legs that aren't vertical when the stand, like bowlegged people, you put them in a boot that has cant adjustments, buckle them up, adjust the cant until the sole of the boot is level with the floor and then do it again with a moldable sole under their feet to fill the wedge shape between the foot and bottom of the boot.

Do you know who does this kind of work in Metropolitan Detroit (suburbs) Michigan? thanks.

I don’t know, why cant they?

Hi! Very usefull explanations! I have a pair of Dynafit Khion whic I love both for tech bindings, and for piste skis. They fit some grip walk bindigs, and others seem to require a "slimmer" space in front, where the proper GW soles have that plate. Do you think it's worth it to "grind" that area to.make it fit better? Or I will risk the binding not properly release when needed?

Obviously you are very knowledgeable about boots and canting. I would ask that you stop referring to the uphill and downhill skis and, instead refer to them as the inside and outside ski. Since this video is 3 years old you probably won't see this comment. And, yes, I am a ski instructor.

It's disgusting to see you guys wearing masks, its all BS take them off/

The measurer said her stance was appropriate for her height???? It should be for the leg spacing that is aligned with the hip socket or stance used. So for a narrow pelvic girdle the natural stance will be closer than a person with wide hips. A downhill racer will be more aligned with the stance they hold in a tuck. Whereas, a slalom skier will want to be slightly bull-legged so the ski can get on the edge faster. Note that most women will have a tendency to be knock-kneed, whereas men will have a tendency to be bull-legged. If the skier has a severe knock knee stance then boot or binding wedges will be necessary to move the knees outward. If the adjustment is small, a cuff alignment will usually suffice. Note that generally only high end boots have cuff alignment adjustments. The final adjustment is to look at the tracks of a skier going straight down the fall-line on a pretty flat surface the skis should either leave a perfectly flat mark on the snow or show wandering to both sides of the ski track. After buying new ski boots it will take some time for a liner to settle in, and the test will have to be repeated. Stuffing a card or several cards held together between the cuff and shell and doing this for several runs and seeing what works best will be the final test. Then you can then try cuff alignment or cants on the shelll or binding that mimic the thickness of the play cards.

helps a ton to understand the quality of bootfitter work

I was so confused by the title, I was like… why can’t my ski boots what? 🤣

Touring boots like my Atomics come with glued on gripwalk soles, so presumably nothing can be done there (not possible to cut off & glue a sole back on?).

Is there a way to compensate for cant issues on tech bindings?

Why can't my ski boots what?

But wouldn't skiing correct you stance since you have to get your feet into t he right position (even when it's with more effort)?

Back seat

My simplest understanding of this is to give one the needed range of movements needed to ski. I can make my skis run flat BUT my knees are way inside of my boots. My knee either hits my inside leg or will go behind the inside leg in order to edge without cants.

I just want to share that this video (and those related in the series) have changed my skiing life… I used the formula in this video that .6mm = a .5 degree change in one’s stance. And the info for that the “average” adjustment was about 2 degrees. Using that formula and a plumb bob to check my knees over my boots , i made some educated guesses and I had a friend 3D print a few blank 2.5 degree planes just barely larger than my current boot insole. It lays over my boot board and under the thin moisture board insole. I have insoles inside my boot liners and re adjusted my boot cuff cant once everything was in place. My first experiment skiing with them was life changing… for the first time ever I could relax in my boots on flat cat tracks… I bring my skis closer together without worry about catching an outside edge (I supinate). Anyway - I know it’s a bit ratchet compared to visiting a boot fitter but I live in Vegas and thought I would give it a go after watching all the vids from your road trip… my legs and knees felt great all day. Usually it feels like I have shin splits by mid day… that all went away, and skiing relaxed felt like I was 10 yrs younger

Outside stance = Bow-legged?

This is way better and way more important than having some electronics in your boot telling you where your weight is.

This is so refreshing to see.. Truly passionate about a proper fit.. Not just trying to get someone in and out as quick as possible.. You'd think we'd have more expert boot fitters in the Wasatch but nope! Where you located?

Who do you think is best to go see close to New York City,thank you for your answer in advance

Ok but what to do for people who use ski touring boots with no possibility to cant soles, bindings, or cuffs? If I am very bow legged (always feel that it’s hard to get sufficient edge angle on downhill ski) can I adjust alignment in boot by adapting the liner or insoles?

This is, at best, half accurate. The second portion of the experiment DOES show a sloppy, skiddy skier becoming sloppier and skiddier. And that may well be a problem for some substantial proportion of the skiing public. However, the first portion of the experiment just shows a skier that is so reliant on his "skidiness" that he is unable to benefit from or be comfortable with a ski that is actually happier being on its edge and helping in the turn. This skier's weak technical skills make it foolish to suggest that his boots are technically "correct" by some arbitrary standard prior to the experimental canting. In fact, I'd say the the first cant test showed an objective improvement. For example, watch the SKIS and note how much better they are tracking (not slipping out) @4:22 and the following turns. Objectively better turns, but outside (above) the realm and comfort range of this barely average skier. I am always bothered when a salesman with such a poor understanding of technique is hawking high zoot "technical" products/services with such a misguided focus. But that's nothing new in the history of ski equipment.

I loved this videos. I’m heading to Killington VT next week for a few days. I plan on starting at the Basin ski shop. They are listed on the cantology website. I don’t think I have a neutral stance. And it may be causing me edging issues. I also skied 205s and 210s many years ago. And I didn’t have a problem, or so I thought. Skis are shaped so differently today. I’m skiing on a 180s with less control. I hope it’s my alignment. I don’t think it’s because I’m 67. Thanks for your videos, what an education.

So can canting help if you tie in with one foot?

I was curious about this. That's a good news. Except, the traditional soles aren't that easy to get. At least in my case. I bought new boots and I have fairly recent skis and bindings, '18 model year. The store where I got the boots couldn't get me the flat soles. Contacted mfgr a couple of times and didn't get anywhere. Big store, major mfgr... without naming names... I ended up buying GW compatible bindings because I can't spend the rest of the season chasing soles. But seems like I still don't have a straight forward option on dialing in the canting on my new boots which I was interested in after watching your videos. In this transition period mfgrs should include both with each pair of new boots.

Great video. Be sure and check your leg angle for both legs as they may be different. Mine are. A simple way is a string with a weight at the end attached to the middle of the knee. I find this spot by locating the large flat tendon right below the knee cap (about 3/4 to and 1 inch wide) and put a mark right in the middle. Attach the string at the mark with tape (or a strap if you have hairy legs). The string with the weight should dangle just above the ground or your foot. Lift the opposite leg and balance on the leg with the sting and note the position of the weight. I find it's easiest to balance by locking the knee or keeping the leg straight as possible. To avoid swaying and thus causing the weight to move around a lot, lightly touch the wall or chair, but do not support yourself. Do the same process with the other leg. I found my left leg angled outward significantly more than my right around 1.5 inches. Often skies shave a good side and bad side when making turns (as mentioned) My bad side has always been to the right. Different leg strength likely accounts for some of it, but no doubt difference leg angle does too. Canting strips are on order. Will report back with results.

Did I see this right, in other episodes they were looking for center of the whole knee but here, Ernie measured the center of the patella?

Hi there. As a boot fitter since 1978 and expert skier/Instructor I am absolutely loving the way you are getting us all "under the hood" with your video series. Particularly as it reviews the slightly different approaches/philosophies/priorities of the practitioners. I am working my way through them all. I have one suggestion about clarity of nomenclature or terminology. In some of the discussions it seems that there is uncertainty about what "moving the knee inside" vs outside does. IE does bringing the knee more to the medial side of the boot create more or less (inside) edge? Yes, rhetorical question! Moving the knee inside means less (inside) edge (albeit getting the skier more inside the edge), moving it outside means more edge. Quite counterintuitive so maybe worth clearing up. Thanks again for your great work.

Man I wish ernie was close to my town. Love his no nonsense way and his experience totally shows.

The difficulty Sean seemed to have and his comments on what his first canted run felt like was bang on for me! Passenger not pilot ans on constant verge of disaster wrangling my skis. And i always wear out my shoes more toward the outside, never the inside. So this means there's a very good chance I have an inside stance on one or both feet?? That sounds odd to me as I also have always found it much, much more difficult to turn right than left, which always confused me because I am right handed and generally right side dominant. Wow. I can only hope I can make it up to Whistler to get this checked out by one of the shops that carries and installs your product. Are Cantology cants compatible for use with Apex ski boots, which are 2 part, having a chassis and a walking boot that gets strapped in? Also, how much can I adjust for an inside stance using a footbed or some type of wedge inside my boot?

It seems to me that most of the boot fitters you've interviewed in this whole series use the "move the ski" philosophy more than the "move the knee" technique. Some day I'd really like to see a down-and-dirty debate between these two seemly diametrically opposed philosophies. Do you believe in one vs. the other? I really like your "hand out the window " analogy when you were talking about canting and powder. I'd never thought about it that way and it makes a lot of sense.

First, to define a skier's alignment, you must understand the movements and be able to do a correct analysis of the skier's turn. In this movement analysis by the commentator, the MA is incorrect. Sean is using a full shoulder rotation and he is leaning his upper body into every turn to generate a skidded turn that barely engages the ski. My reference to his skiing is from his first run, with his regular alignment stance, which is correct his boot setup is not complete. In the falline freeze frame, Sean's outside knee is cocked behind his other knee and it is in an "A-Frame " stance relative to his inside leg. His legs are not parallel this is plain to see. Therefore if you are using this as a baseline and trying to add cant strips with outward tipping or inward tipping you are making him even worse. The first thing you should do is perform a total biomechanical assessment not just play with 2 plus degrees of under-boot canting, those are huge amounts. The description of the canting is confusing at best and the application the way it is described in this video is backward. The Cantology product to modify boot soles is fine if you know how to use it.

This video is incredible.

Very interesting stuff. But Paul Lorenz said he has 2 degree (left) and 1.5 degree (right) canting. and you can also see he has cuff set to most outward position for cuff alignment in some close up shot.

So much confusion and so much "can't" about canting! Most good skiers who are over-canted overturn the outside ski because it's over edged. The "wobbly knee" is another symptom. This skier's under turning ski reflects edge-lock of an otherwise skidding ski. Using a skidding skier was a poor choice. Also there should be a moratorium on the terms knock-kneed and bowlegged. Look at the illustrations in The Athletic Skier. Tina looks "bowlegged" because her boots push her straight ankles outward when standing with boot soles FLAT (over-canted). She looks knock-kneed when under-canted when standing SOLES FLAT because the boots force her outward tilting knees inward. Knees perpendicular to flat ski should always be the goal. Folks whose knees don't "track straight" will likely never become accomplished skier's. Moving cuff adjustment outward is certainly "canting" as well despite all the nonsense spewed on Ski Talk.

Great video. Can I please ask what model Bosch laser that was?

Here's the deal with demonstrating skiing with your feet apart. Unless a viewer knows how to ski Technically Correct before trying to ski with their feet apart, they won't be able to do it successfully. To make carved turns with both skis making the same parallel arch, it takes the ability to adjust your weight and balance from foot to foot. The way skiing is being taught worldwide does not teach people what to do with their body and how to proportion and change their weight and balance from foot to foot to allow their skis to make technically correct turns. With that bad teaching and what comes naturally to the student, it is guaranteed that they will be skiing mostly on their inside ski and either hooking it into the hill and spinning around backwards or falling over into the turn or just having the skis change direction and not actually bend and make turns that can control their speed. All demonstration and teaching should focus on basic and proper skiing and then when that is mastered, the skiers can do whatever they want but they can Not do whatever they want before they have learned the basics because they will not have correct skiing to fall back on. Most people mimic what they see. Skiing with your feet apart is one of the worst things to show or teach students. Students need to understand that skiing requires the ability to make turns with most of their weight and balance on the turning ski only and then when they see how it works, they can add more weight to the inside ski to spread out the weight and workload.

So when can we suspect to see the next videos. I am looking forward to the conclusions gained from this series to learn the best method of foot alignment.

I am really into improve my carving this season, and my instructor with a racing background ask me to find a good boot fitter and check the boots alignment. I saw berg’s ski shop in Eugene OR is listed as official dealer for you guys. Could them do something like this? After watched some of the videos I almost 100% sure I need some canting(I put more weight on outside foot, outside of my shoes wear a lot more than inside, and I am a little bit bowed leg). Also could atomic boots be canted?

This is very interesting. I've been aware of such issues since I started skiing in the 70's, but have never had an assessment done or suggested, and in fact have only owned about 3 or 4 pairs of boots in my life, often with comfort issues. Custom footbeds have been suggested subsequently to address these kinds of issues after the fact. One thing that seems important right at the outset is to assess the skier's feet, and determine arch height, width, length etc. and what kind of footbed if any is needed. None of these issues are mentioned in your video, but it does appear that the fitter is inserting some kind of custom foot bed into the liner at the beginning. I would imagine the footbed could make quite a difference not only to overall fit of the boot, but also stance and the need or otherwise for shims to address cant? Have you looked at the footbed as a factor?

If I am flat footed, does that make me less likely to need canting?

Really, really awesome. Thank you so much

Spot on ! Just had my Fischer ski boots -upgraded inserts, canted and molded to me. I've been skiing my whole life and have never felt such a world of difference! Thank you for your expertise!