Yes man, he was just playing.

Wow, spectacular sprint, that looked like fun. I emptied the tank on the climb as I figured I could not win a group sprint. That’s my second race; I’ll probably be in C next week… thanks for posting, it’s great to be able to revisit this.

@@malo0178glad you enjoyed it!!

@@AndrewBrown-em3ti feels so much better from all aspects. im sure someone suffered though but for me this is ace

@@scottmccann4509 Really pleased with it. Zwift is great again 😁

Finally competitive!

Now and onwards!! 💪💪💪

@@123dwd I tried. Almost succeeded but i knew 2-5 people would rail me in on the last 200. Two went earlier n I should gone with but opted to wait since the Ghost effect lasts so short.

@@nicklaughton3163 hell yes man 🥳💪

@@SnowDog80 i put matters into my own hands after this race, and if I can race on Friday it will be a different ballgame 🤞

I hate but I still love you but I do hate you

In heaven hell

You will

Working hard and not really seeing much results 😰

I know man, bloody annoyance when I wasn't paying attention.

Thanks for the ride my man

Hanging on and racing if theres more than two lol!

Stand no chance against you on those sprints man well done

I just race it out. I dont have the time for any training efforts lol

That's a very good tip. It's slightly different than what Im doing althought not by much, but I will try this. However, I have been more offensive on this route for some reason than I am at others because it have helped me keeping up for longer. I am warming up btw. I put in 20-30 minutes before hand. I'm just not filming it. I'm just cooling it down a bit doing the intro.

Good luck in trying it out! Racing is all about energy conservation….until it isn’t, then it is all in 🎉

Good race

I need to look into that ticking. Worn out my friend, worn out. It was the straw (feather lol) that broke the camels back.

@brutalclimb easy to figure out, different pedals and shoes...... And great grasp of the English language to create that joke 😂

​@@scottmccann4509 thanks 😅 I looked at the bottom bracket area today. Cleaned all up. Greased it again. Looked okay. Must be the cleat or the pedal. The sound doesnt show up if I turn it by hand.

@@brutalclimb it'll only click under pressure, just as a friend for their shoes/pedals if you don't have a spare pair. It seems to click as soon as you start so you'll know straight away.

Any more red those first 20 minutes and I would be under surveillance for suspected communism

I can do red for some time to keep up but once anyone starts some spicey action, like a climb, Im all out. Cant do one more watts without getting dropped.

@@schinzilord9932 🙈👀 i show up, press record and race. 🙈

The mini group was catching people left and right. Insane. Burned too many matches for a fun sprint but did what I could!

@@schinzilord9932 Totally appreciate the comment man. Maybe it's not impossible after all. Needed the positivity 💪

@@scottmccann4509 full in the red, three PRs in a row

Absolutely enjoyable ride! Much more enjoyable than these ZRS cats!

486?! You will mop the floor with me man, I will never reach that field of play - which is also my frustration. I am basically forever disqualified from being even slightly competitive in this category. I see no other option than to force degrade myself into the category below if I'm going to see any competitive fun. Otherwise, doomed to lower mid-pack to dead bottom.

@@brutalclimb I just love cycling and am lucky enough to be able to cycle every day which helps keep me in shape. When I got up to B category it was a bit boring as I was used to fighting for the podium in C. Now I suddenly came across the finish line completely cooked in a group at the lower end. So I can really understand your frustration. After a while I started to rather "compete" and concentrate on the group of cyclists I ended up with and forget those who were ahead of me. Then it became a little more fun. With the new arrangement, I feel that I have been lucky with where the new groups are. But I can really see that you have been unlucky.

Top riders would def be B cat, while bottom riders could be D cat - at worst - like you say. Zwift need to make sure you loose more score by finishing bottom of these races. At this point in time, for me, these racing scores doesn't work.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say, and you are right on every point you make. This is beyond frustrating. I don't need to fight for podiums, but being uncompetitive during the fall season in Cat C used to mean a middle-pack finish. Now, with these categories, it means basically rock bottom. The racing score doesn't drop enough for any downgrade in category within reasonable time, but it sure as hell went straight up when I won that race in Neokyo a few weeks back. Since then, I am - and will be screwed for the unforseeable future. I apologise for the extremely negative tone post-race and I am slightly over it now. I have a competative personality and what feels like a "rigged system" (I know it's not) just makes my blood boil.

No apologies needed! Frustration completely understood as I'm a competitive one myself. I was just lucky enough to have my racing score drop 26 points on Saturday when I took, literally, last place on Turf N Surf and it put me in the category below. Was dropped in under five minutes there *on the flat* where my overall power should compensate for my weight (85.3 kg), and it was zero help. My initial seed score was 527, so just above the threshold to bump me up a cat, and it still took three races of legitimate effort, getting blown up minutes in, and finishing bottom five or less to get me to where I could hang on with a pack. Even then, yesterday was just barely hanging in there on several occasions. And that's just my situation, where I at least had a hope of dropping down a category. I can't imagine the frustration of those who are seeded just above the middle of their current cat, are getting blown out every race at the very beginning, and have no chance to drop down to the next category. What I mean there is, from what I'm reading, Zwift won't let a racer's score drop more than 15% of their original "seed score" to prevent sandbagging and letting top talent blow up lesser categories. So if you're, say, in the 350-520 group, and have an initial seed score of 412, 85% of that is 350.2 and so you're stuck there in that cat for good unless your power bests drop over the next 90 days. In principle, I understand the reasoning, but in practice, it's leading to a lot of anger and frustration among folks because it's leading to racing just not being fun anymore when people are riding solo for 30-35 minutes. Again, that's where the scoring bands need to either be narrowed and have more of them, or shift them from time to time so people aren't just stuck always getting their ass handed to them until things change again. I hope Zwift is looking at things and listening to the feedback, and makes the appropriate corrections, whatever those might be that are possible within the program. My fear is that they'll end up saying, "Things are working as intended..." and leave it at that, but we'll see.

@@SnowDog80 Being in the middle without hope of either up and down are just a screwed situation. I could just struggle through some races doing blue watt output and drop down. Maybe. I don't know. This fixes one problem - but create so many others. Being C cat and off-form meant 2.9 and going up to top C cat at 3.1 or 3.2. That is impossible now.

@@karlsaarela3970 I had no idea they came so fast. Wasnt aware enough. Great stuff man, hope to see you again!

Yeah 14:30 looks fishy man lol I was pushing my leg just to find some rest. I havent looked at the others but I suspect first five or more would be lower cat B by the old system. Maybe a few more.

@@brutalclimb did you look at zwift power? I just did a race today (castle circuit). I'm in the same group as you 470 score and C. However the winner did 3.8w/kg average and half the course was a freewheel downhill. I came 5th and the top 12 were all Bs. I think the cats are more of a mess than before

@@scottmccann4509 Yes, I had a look. Winner did 3.6 w/kg. So did number 4 and 5. I have never done 3.6 in my life. Winner got 518 in racing score, just 3 points off an upgrade. If I was that guy, I would hold back ever so slightly so I wouldn't get upgraded to the next category and be imprisoned to lower half - bottom race results for all eternity. In the last races, he has won two and came in second the third time. And he can do this because he falls dead perfect into these racing scores. The guy basically gets a podium every time he does a race. Insane. He is touching that ceiling of this category ever so well, but not crossing over the limit. If I had been smart I would have held back during that race (that means not coming close to death at the sprint finish) I won and could have continued in the other category for perhaps a month or two before getting an upgrade. Maybe. The winner in the category below me is about my stats. Would have been fun. Maybe this will even itself out with time, but considering my stats, weight, race power and so on - I will not reach any podiums this season. At all.

@@brutalclimb if that person is getting constantly good results then surely his points increase quickly?. Or is it solely on the riders you beat? I was 450 and now 477 coming in 5th but no way could I keep up with 1st. I've got the steering, Tacx Neo plus bike and clever with positioning, momentum and tactics. I just don't have the raw power and endurance of the other riders. I just looked again on zwift power, the rider who won, always wins or top 3. I had no hope in hell keeping up. I've never got better than 5th (I'm 477 and they're 480)WTAF that doesn't make sense

Ah man I wish I had that punch. Maybe I'm too old or something. I'm just worn out by the time we reach any sprint in a race like this. I do see some hope for me though, so I'll keep grinding on. See you at some other race, and by March I'll see if I can give you a fight to the finish line!

You too then. Some of us must really fall into the wrong basket here. I can only dream of going London Classique or whatever and being able to keep up. Maybe, like you say, a flat race will help keep my head above water. I am not competetive as it as, but I never have been in October/November/December. Looking back at it, I faced the same challenges last year, but then I was able to pick up my pace gradually. However, adding 0.3 w/kg to my 20 min output and reaching the top of Category C feels different than adding 150 race score points. I am not sure that is doable for me. I will see where this is heading by the end of the year.

Ahhh if only man. My Kickr V5 doesnt support any of it. I wish I could get the Zwift Bike Hub. I screwed up the Leg Snapper. I need to challenge my mentality by going harder, earlier before the climb. My body wasn't totally into the head and neither was my head lol!!

I'm basically screwed as it stands at the moment. I am 380 in race score, and this category goes up to 520 or something. That means the brunt of the riders got better racing scores than me as in faster than me. That means I will get dropped at some point. Just a matter of time before I tank out. Like this one. It's either decreasing race score by doing badly, or improving. The improvement will be here by like February - so good luck to me. I will be looking at plenty of races of simply being dropped.

I was honestly about to give up, but just managed to get over the finish line. This thing was a lot harder than the previous race. But yet I increased my score. It will be even worse next time then lol!! 460 is massive man!

Thank you my man. It's these "ease off moments" I do that might give me a slight shot at keeping the numbers up. I ease off because I am about to hit 170bpm or simply not being able to keep the Watts up. But a side product of my desperate attempt at keeping up with the group gives me a bit of strength at the sprint. Sometimes! Not all the time. A lot of people seem to be dead by the sprint-time and can't pull much more than 50-100 more than regular race pace. I used to be better at it pulling up to 800 or whatever, but I'm old so I take what I can lol

I know. The graph is insane. I looked at DGDC's graph and he's blue. Just small spikes of red. I go red constantly to keep up. If I go down in yellow I'll get dropped. Blue and I will be standing still! I never figured this out. Some other guy commented on this as well. After this race I felt nauseous! Thats what it takes for me so nothing I can do. I ease off power when I can just to let my legs recover for a few seconds. Going down in Watts and these guys will leave me behind. I thought I screwed up as well, but I think some used their power ups prematurely. A bit lucky there, but Im putting it on the Tron!

​@@brutalclimb yeah my graph is quite smooth, either chilling, steady pace in the break or holding solid watts up a hill. However if it works for you and you can win, then maybe you're doing it correct haha

@@1dree1 it took two years lol!!

@@brutalclimb Good job! :)

Either you are correct or I am just in horrible shape.

At 14:32 I had 232 watts in average. No way C cat can do that for an entire race.

@@t-larsen I'm a cat B rider and Honestly its got hard I rode a cat D group today and was near 3watts a kg to keep up. Saying that zwift is awesome.

@@brutalclimb It's like that all the time now not good for new riders. Don't get me wrong zwift great but needs to fix things like this.

@@brutalclimbI did this race in Cat C on Wednesday. Averaged 281 W (3.2 W/kg) to finish with front group of 8 (only finished 6th). That was the lightest effort Cat C race I’ve done in a while and was really only hard for one climb and the final few hundred meters.

Glad you agree there man. lol. I had that thing lined up! Chain going off when I was attempting to push the final watts out of my body. Got 3rd on Zwiftpower.com so would have won it. Horrible. Only blame is myself for not lining up the gears properly. Im a novice on the tech side and thought I had it fixed.

@@brutalclimb You could always upgrade to the Zwift bike/hub with the instant virtual gear changes? That'll give some additional help with steering also and staying in the draft better.

@@scottmccann4509 I don't think the Wahoo Kickr V5 supports?

@@brutalclimb no I don't think you can just convert an old Wahoo trainer. I meant if you wanted to become more serious, you could upgrade and buy the zwift bike & hub, with electronic shifting and steering. Then leave your outdoor bike separate. Saving a few watts in the slipstream more, braking the tow by steering or instant power/gear changes with power, might give those little advantages to stick at the front and win 🤷. The Zwift bike/trainer combo (and a years zwift) is a very good deal. Unfortunately it was released after I invested in a very pricey Garmin Tacx Neo Bike plus 🫣

Thanks my man!

I agree!!

That point at 2 km is nasty 😢

Hell starts at that place. Always.

We defo need to set up a race man! Still feel pretty upbeat about this race although I tanked on the last 1.3 km. The numbers were decent considering I'm outside for most of the time.

@@brutalclimb Yeah, the level was just really high and the pace furious. But certainly the last uphill section to the line is where everybody explodes. You were really good! :)

@@1dree1 Second time in a row I have tanked out on the last 2km, but nevertheless - feeling upbeat.

Some of the worst in this area are these two roads. :D

"Great encouragement" would be correct. She said "oh no, you are being dropped by everyone!" and her mother simply stated I had a lot of cables connected to the computer. lol!! not the best time to pay me a visit though. Threw me off trying to multitask and the watts were low. I started early going after the 2nd placed guy, but never reached the proper watts.

@@t-larsen 🤣