Kind of funny ! I guess if Jesus considered His disciples (students of his teachings) to be "light" and "salt"in the world, then He certainly did empower his disciple/followers to speak for him. Of course the Scriptures do most certainly endorse this idea. DZ

@@Silverheart1956 that’s odd. I don’t see where any of Jesus’ disciples made any comments on this thread.

Dear@@darrellclements4446 , Well, I thought it would be clear, but if necessary I will explain the essence of the issue. The word "disciple", as used in the context of Scripture and within Christian theology is translated from the Greek word " μαθητής" (math-ay-tes'), which literally means, "a learner, disciple, pupil". When used in the context of the first century, in association with Jesus, it refers to his students, who were learners or pupils, of His teachings. Jesus was a rabbi and had many students. Most people are most acquainted with the group of the 12 disciples (who may have actually been 14), who later, after the death of Jesus, became the 12 Apostles (with Judas out and Barnabas in & later other were added - Ex. - Paul) who founded the Churches of Jesus Christ. Many people are not aware that Jesus had many more discipled than just twelve. Luke 10 speaks of the "seventy" implying that Jesus had more students than just twelve. Today that word "disciples" has not changed its meaning since what it meant in the first century. Technically, anyone who is a student of the teachings of Jesus the Christ is considered to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. This is why many Churches have basic "discipleship classes" to educate people concerning the teachings of Jesus Christ. Since we never learn it all, most Christians are considered to be disciples all their lives, because Christian education is a lifetime process. So when you comment that you "don’t see where any of Jesus’ disciples made any comments on this thread" it is probably a result of a misunderstanding of what a Disciple means in the context of the Biblical Scriptures and Christian Theology. This has been understood in this way for hundreds and hundreds of years. So when you say, "don’t see where any of Jesus’ disciples made any comments on this thread", you are evidently expressing a misunderstanding that you have, because you read my comments before posting your own, and I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, and have been a disciple of Jesus the Christ for well over 50 years. I have a formal education in Theology and Counseling at the graduate school level and beyond, and have taught theology and Christian apologetics for quite some time in a church education setting, and other settings. So yes, you actually have seen "disciples of Jesus making comments on this thread", but you were just not quite aware of it because of an apparent misunderstanding of what the word actually means in context. I hope this clarifies the apparent misconception you had about the authentic meaning of what a "disciple" of Jesus Christ actually is. if you have any questions about this, feel free to ask. Be Well, DZ

@@Silverheart1956 thank you for the perfect example of why we more open minded and accepting folks are better off with the church division. Blessings often come disguised in remarkable ways.

Dear@@darrellclements4446 , Well, I fear that the church will divide into two branches. Those who consider themselves to be "open minded", and "accepting" of anything and everything that hedonistically pleases any human beings. They reject a scholarly comprehension of the truth of what God has said. I can only assume that they consider themselves to be more informed and inline with Truth, than God is. It is clear that they desire to create a "Christianity" and "God" that conforms to their own imagine and likeness, demanding that God should become like them and demanding that God accepts their perception of cultural moral norms. This would certainly become a human created, "pseudo-Christianity", void of any authority, but their own minds, and void of any God", but the one their own imagination can create. Then they will "play" "Christianity", giving them an illusion of "spirituality" to satisfy their emotional sensations. Emotional subjectivity will be prioritized over and objective scholarship. They obviously will heavily depend upon eisegetical procedures and the fallacy of "Cherry Picking" when it comes to the Scriptures, because anything in Scripture that is inconsistent with their preconceived belief system (of their "pseudo-Christianity") must be purged or ignored for some excusable reason or another. It must be a system that is void of reasonable hermeneutical and exegetical principles and routinely ignore any scholarly evaluation of the data portrayed in the Scriptures. Subjectivity and the twisting of the text, must take priority. They will live outside of the will of the God of reality. Yes I understand that a verse in the Scriptures will probably not mean much to you, especially if it is contrary to your established belief system. I I ask you to deeply study this verse so that you can understand the points God is trying to make in this text. Mindfully consider each word. "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." (Rom. 12:1-2) Its all about HIM, Its not about us Be Well, DZ

Dear @ John Fogg, If I understand you correctly, that is exactly the issue. If one disagrees with the the position, teachings & interpretations of the BOD, then by your honor and to preserve your intellectual integrity, you should leave !!! If you disagree with the BOD and refuse to leave (bringing dishonor and a lack of intellectual integrity upon yourself), you should be disfellowshipped from the body. I think many pastors and members are afraid to do take this action, despite the fact that the Scriptures clearly teach this action is probably the action required to take. This is necessarly to keep the purity of the church and to keep others in the body from being led astray. This action is something that needs to be emphasized and specified as an action that is required to be taken by all pastors and Bishops at the next general conference. Here in South Carolina there was a pastor of an upstate UMC that was actively inviting practicing homosexuals to be accepted in her church. I spoke with the Bishop of SC and asked if this is the position of the SC UMC and the BOD. He said NO! and within a weak this pastor had been removed and replaced with a pastor who affirms and follows the Scriptures and the BOD. Be Well, DZ

@@Silverheart1956 I agree completely. Unfortunately, the UMC has become broken beyond repair. I am SO happy that my home church is taking a stand against the UMC. We will vote to disaffiliate in a week then be out at the Annual Conference in June. Interesting side note. Our Annual Conference has been historically held at Grove City College (a Christian college)....I believe since 1968. However, the GCC will no longer allow the UMC Annual Conference to be held there because of the liberal conduct of the UMC.

Dear@@johnfogg7858 , Thanks for the comments I appreciate the conversation. "the UMC has become broken beyond repair. " OH ! .... I want to tell you, NO ! You are Wrong, Because there is still a chance for hope ! But deep down, ........ I fear you are correct. I left the UMC a long time ago, but I keep up with the Methodist Church, I grew up in - it's home. And thankfully, it is still very conservative, and our state (SC) is still fairly conservative. I sympathize with the churches that are leaving, I kind of hate to see it and would like to see them stay and fight it. The African Methodists have been so loyal to the Scriptures and it is sad to see them be abandoned to fight the fight alone. I suppose in the end they will leave also. But I understand the reasons for leaving. Is your conference going to allow you to leave without hassles ? Many have said "leave", but leave the keys to the property and facilities with the conference. If you leave the conference I hope they will allow you to keep your property. After all the UMC left the Christians. I hope it works out very well for your fellowship. We will pray for that this Sunday as the Church John attends. God Be with you and bless your fellowship ! DZ

@@Silverheart1956 We are one of the larger churches in our Conference. Unless they move the target, again, we will be allowed to leave and keep our property once we pay roughly two years of apportionments, pension benefits and a low percentage of the value of our property. We will also be permitted to keep our sizeable endowment. Lest our Conference appear to be generous, the reality is, there are a very sizeable number of empty UMC churches in our Conference that cost them a great deal monthly. They do not want one of the bigger ones on their hands.

Dear@@johnfogg7858 , Well, It is not the best of scenarios, but it could be worse and I have heard some that were not allowed to stay at all. They had to leave and take absolutely nothing with them. I guess it is funny they are kind of stuck with some buildings. In the state I live in that are a few empty UMC church buildings but those churches died as number dwindled and they finally combined with other UMCs near by. I haven't heard of any congregations leaving the SC UMC because of the homosexual issue (yet), But we are in a fairly conservative state (SC). I am curious - What state are you in ? DZ

Nonsense

@@natashatomlinson4548 The Catholic Church is mentioned in 107ad. Your church? Not so much

Nonsense .

Dear @Him Bike, You will certainly have a difficult time finding any objective, evidential support for that assertion in the Scriptures because nowhere in God's Scriptures does it ever say, "Jesus started one The Roman Catholic Church and said it would last forever." You have to go outside of the Scriptures to find an idea like that It is very apparent that someone has indoctrinated you into that belief, contrary to the Scriptures The Bereans were called noble because they questioned what somebody told them, until that checked what that person was telling them against the Scriptures (and note, the person they questioned was an apostle of Jesus, They didn't trust an Apostle until they checked his words against Scripture) Hopefully, we should practice that same noble character. Be Well

Yeah boy, there's no greed, corruption, or unGodlyness within the management of the RC Church. LOL.... They have evolved into quite possibly the greediest, most unGodly part of Christiandom.

@@Silverheart1956 what church do u go to ? My guess is your brand new church is not in The Bible. We Catholics have 2000yr unbroken line of popes. You have what, 20yrs ? LoL. Also there’s tons of stuff u do or Protestants Do that is not in scripture. No where in scripture does it say to “Add 27 books to the Old Testament But the pope did it anyways. You seem to leave that part out? No where in scripture does it say to go to church? I’m hoping u go to church? Nowhere in scripture does it say go to church on Sunday? Most Protestants do. Nowhere in scripture does it say to celebrate Christmas and Easter. Most Protestants do. All those are from the pope. The calendar u use is from the pope.

Dear @Him Bike Thank for your response. There are many assertions you made that I would strongly question. We can discuss them one at a time if you would like to discuss these issues. You ask about " what church do u go to ?" The ἐκκλησίᾳ (ekklēsia) I attend is a gathering of Christians who follow the pattern of the first century Church as described in the Biblical Documents. We are not members of any denominations of Christendom because we believe that Paul taught we shouldn't divide the church into following the teachings of men (I Cor. 3:4-7). Some brag that they follow Apollos or Paul, Some brag that they follow Luther (Lutherans), some brag about following Wesley (Wesleyans), some brag that they follow Calvin (Calvinists). Some brag they follow the Pope (Roman Catholics), Some brag they follow the Ecumenical Patriarch (Orthodox Christians). At our ἐκκλησίᾳ , we affirm we follow Jesus the Messiah. He is the head of our church in accordance with the Scriptures. In essence, we are nondenominational and claim to follow only the teachings of Jesus and His disciples. We do have human leaders; they are primarily called "πρεσβύτερος" (elders). The first century church was led by "elders" as we can clearly see in the Scriptures. The Scriptures also give some other names that are used interchangeably with elders (ἐπισκόποις - bishops, ποιμένας - shepherds/pastors). We also have a division of leadership called "Διάκονοι" (deacons) as described in I Tim 3:8, who are responsible for the more temporal matters of the church as described in Acts 6:1-6. We consider the Scriptures to be God-breathed ("θεόπνευστος" 2 Tim 3:16) and we use it as our supreme and final authority just as the Bereans did, as described in Acts 17, when they questioned the teachings of an apostle (Paul) and checked his teachings to see if they were in line with Scripture. For this they were considered "Noble". The Scriptures are the word of God and are" "useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…" (2 Tim. 3:16-17) We are basically the Church Of Jesus Christ, following the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles of Jesus Christ, living for and serving Yeshua, the Messiah. Obviously the church we are member of is clearly mentioned and described in the Scriptures. The first Christian Church, was obviously the Jerusalem Church as clearly described in the Scriptures. We associate with that Church and considered the Jerusalem church to be our "mother church" and we follow in her footsteps. It is clear, obvious and undeniable to any one who is familiar with Scripture, that the Jerusalem Church existed many years before there ever was a Roman Catholic Church. You said "We Catholics have 2000yr unbroken line of popes" Yes, I have heard of the Pope Of the Roman Catholic Church. It appears the office of "Pope" is an extra-biblical office, made up by some people, who made up the "Roman Catholic Church" , because the office of "Pope" is certainly not mentioned in the Scriptures. Some of these "Popes", of the Roman Catholic Church, have reputations contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. 1. Pope Stephen VI (896-897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]: 19  2. Pope, Sergius III (904-911), Murdered two predecessors, and fathered an illegitimate child who went on to become a pope. 3. Pope John XII (955-964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife. 4. Pope Benedict IX (1032-1044, 1045, 1047-1048), who "sold" the Papacy upon his retirement. 5. Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy. 6. Pope Urban VI (1378-1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[1]: 153  7. Pope Paul II (1464--1471) Died while having sex with a male page 8. Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[1]: 204  9. Pope Leo X (1513-1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony.[1]: 218  10. Pope Clement VII (1523-1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked. Power certainly appears to corrupt ! References: "The Bad Popes", by E. R. Chamberlin. 1969. ISBN 0-880-29116-8. "10 of History’s Most Scandalous Popes", by Khalid Elhassan . 2018 (historycollection.com/10-of-historys-most-scandalous-popes/) "The Most Corrupt and Scandalous Papacies in History", by Larry Holzwarth. 2018 (historycollection.com/the-most-corrupt-and-scandalous-papacies-in-history/2/) With characters like this as leaders of a "church", it is comforting to know that Jesus never instituted any office of His church known as "The Pope". The Office of "Pope" is an office of a particular Church made up be a group of people who created their own religion/church. It is certainly NOT a Biblically instituted office, endorsed by Jesus Christ. (Look in the Scriptures for yourself; you will not find it, because it is not there). Be Well, DZ

Her own standards and emotions above God. It seems a bishop should have adequate theological training.

This is why this apostate church is on it’s death bed.

guess Jesus was wrong about the thief who was on the cross next to him

@@farrelro The thief on the cross was forgiven by Christ for all of his sins since the thief acknowledge christ and asked Christ to remember him.

Jesus did not say so. It was Paul who had a history of taking part in torturing and killing Christians eg Stephanus. Jesus should be listened.

@@heidiluotolahti4305 I get it. You don't believe the bible. You also failed to mention that the pre-saved Paul you mentioned was before his conversion not after it.