Lars Brinkhoff

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@BrokebackBob 21 күн бұрын

My University had a large pdp-10 on which they ran tops- 10 (DECsystem-10) and I learned programming in several different languages on that system. I owe a lot to the PDP 10

@zenektadowski8296 Ай бұрын

What is this software that turns shell consoles into retro consoles?

@larsbrinkhoff Ай бұрын

This is me using my own VT100 hardware simulation.

@JohnVoesten 3 ай бұрын

Thanks! It worked perfectly on mine. (pidp10 #401)

@Coklad1kaka 3 ай бұрын

Hej pappa

@Coklad1kaka 3 ай бұрын

Hej, Astor här

@Coklad1kaka 3 ай бұрын

Hej jag är Astor

@larsbrinkhoff 3 ай бұрын

Hej! Kram

@Potatis-b7s 3 ай бұрын

Jag känner ditt barn A.

@larsbrinkhoff 3 ай бұрын

Fin buss, L.

@TonnyPettersson 5 ай бұрын

Coolt

@Coklad1kaka 3 ай бұрын

HEJ

@TonnyPettersson 5 ай бұрын

Jättebra

@TonnyPettersson 5 ай бұрын

Bra film

@TonnyPettersson 5 ай бұрын

Hej pappa

@BrotherAlan 5 ай бұрын

Didn't COMPUSERVE run on DECSystem 10 or 20s? Would be cool to bring up a little compuserve system.

@larsbrinkhoff 5 ай бұрын

Yes, a bunch of them. But the software they used does not seem to be available. Whether some of it still remains is an open question.

@bittertruth6575 5 ай бұрын

This place closed a month ago (June 2024). So sad. I found your video only yesterday.

@larsbrinkhoff 5 ай бұрын

But fortunately the remote login systems live on under the SDF umbrella.

@eswenson 5 ай бұрын

Yes, when I finally got SHRDLU to accept the first few commands in the original TWDEMO script, I set to work on getting the Type 340 display working and when I saw the hand move the green block out of the way to pick up the red one (the command was “pick up a big red block”) it sent shivers down my spine. The display code is excruciatingly slow right now and all of SHRDLU and MicroPlanner are running interpreted. Once I get more bugs fixed, I’ll work on getting it compiled. Debugging is a lot easier when interpreted, though.

@christopheroliver148 5 ай бұрын

Wow! Fun bit of history. I remember seeing this on a PBS show (can't remember which) when I was very young. Much later, I read "Bringing Design to Software" edited by SHRDLU's investigator. It's exciting to see it operate on a modern Lisp and maybe down the road we'll see it as a demo under CCL or SBCL. I still have a dream that the major commercial Lisp environments of the time will get to be free for public exploration. It's happened with Interlisp D (Medley). I hope that it will happen with OpenGenera before the sun burns out. A good Lisp environment much like a good Smalltalk environment is a great place for kids to learn and explore hacking. I wish I had stuff like that when I was a teenager.

@eswenson 5 ай бұрын

@@christopheroliver148 In its time, SHRDLU was able to run on Multics, so I'll probably try to get that running again. Also, I see no reason why the version of SHRDLU that was ported to CommonLisp can't be fixed (using some of my fixes, or similar ones) as well. I may try that when I run out of things to do with the ITS and Multics versions of SHRDLU. Finally, I'll try to get it running on CADR and OpenGenera as I have both of those environments running locally.

@GrantMeStrength 5 ай бұрын

Amazing to see this running!

@michaelbruce5415 6 ай бұрын

All that's missing is DECTape

@Neodynium.the_permanent_magnet 7 ай бұрын

This brings back so many good memories.

@moskauuhrmacher6833 8 ай бұрын

Just like in my Siemens s35i

@deang5622 8 ай бұрын

Should have just bough an Atari Battlezone arcade motherboard...

@ultrameticulous 8 ай бұрын

"Oh!", I shouted. I was looking at it two-dimensionally, at first. Like the dot was traveling to the right. This is very cool. Though I can't tell whether you're turning right or left.

@RabFinebeau 8 ай бұрын

Where's the eyeball?

@larsbrinkhoff 8 ай бұрын

There's no eyeball in this game. That came with the later Alto version.

@RabFinebeau 8 ай бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Oh okay. Thanks for the info. 👍

@pavletrnic1433 8 ай бұрын

doom when?

@naganomancer 8 ай бұрын

oscilloscope Ultima when?

@heinz-berndeggenstein6452 9 ай бұрын

Fantastic!

@herdware 9 ай бұрын

Looking forward to playing with the PiDP 10!

@ejwerme 9 ай бұрын

I remember AOJA is 344 and JRST is 254, and IO instructions start with 7. Half word with 5, test with 6....

@jw0stephens 9 ай бұрын

Great to see, Lars. Didn't hear the dozen high speed muffin fans, however. :-)

@larsbrinkhoff 9 ай бұрын

Sorry, I have no muffins and no fans.

@GodEmperorSuperStar 10 ай бұрын

Jesus Christ! It's like MS-DOS to you!

@cstacy 11 ай бұрын

I don't know diddly about CLU, but I suspect that CLUSYS is a MDL runtime instance that has been loaded with the CLU runtime (written in MDL) and dumped (to TS CLUSYS) such that the CLU function will be the toplevel function. That's why the fload() is like MDL --- it is MDL. And also the dumping of the HELLO program is essentially a recapitulation of the above process. As for what is "actually compiled" here, I am not sure. But I think the CLU runtime includes at least some of the MDL runtime. How much CLU is piggybacking on MDL here is unclear - could just be the loading and dumping mechanism. (Or maybe they just more or less copied that from MDL.) Whether the CLU code is compiled to intermediate MDL, which is then compiled, I do not know. The user's application might be directly compiled to machine code. I wonder how that CLU REPL works! So, not sure if CLU was 100% self-hosted at this point. Since the CLU system files are all available on the ITS emulator project, someone could go look at see exactly what's going on here. I am just guessing about how it works based on how this demo looks to me. I remember undergrad students learning and using CLU around 1983. The course was about software engineering and focused on teams of people doing development (as opposed to basic programming concepts). I don't think they were on a PDP-10 at that time. (Definitely not using ITS, and I don't think TOPS-20 either.) I think they were doing the class on either Unix or some bespoke PDP-11 system (I don't think they had a VAX). Anyway, by this later point, CLU almost certainly was entirely written in CLU with its own runtime. Pretty sure Liskov would have had a VT52 terminal since that's what users mostly had on ITS (including the DM group on the 5th floor) when I was there around 1980. (I think IMLACs were reserved for users who needed graphics.) But I am totally guessing here because early 1970s was way before my time at the lab.

@larsbrinkhoff 11 ай бұрын

Yes, you are entirely correct. The CLU runtime at this point was (partially) based on MDL. The compiler in use in the video generates MIDAS source code. All files including many that have not been thoroughly analysed, are available here: github.com/get-a-clu/its-pdp10-clu Checking a random pick of TTYTYP from 1978, I see 11 Imlacs and just one VT52.

@neelsb7889 Жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I am doing research on the history of computers, operating systems, etc. to also share with some kids that are interested in IT and programming. Can you perhaps recommend a not-too-hard-to-use Multics emulator/simulator which I could download and run on Linux and/or Windows?

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

I'm not much of a Multics user myself, but I believe this is a good starting point: multics-wiki.swenson.org/index.php/Getting_Started If you want to try the Incompatible Timesharing System, which is kind of the antithesis of Multics, I do have all the information you need.

@neelsb7889 Жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Thank you!

@MrRigidus 9 ай бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoffI would like to try ITS, which roadmap should I use?

@larsbrinkhoff 9 ай бұрын

@@MrRigidus Much like ITS itself back in the day, getting ITS running today is somewhat tricky and undocumented. I believe running the emulators on Linux works best, followed by MacOS. I'm not sure about Windows. One option is the "Personal ITS" ready made disk images. I believe I can't post URLs here, but it's available from archive.org under the title "KLH10 starter ITS filesystem image". You need to compile the KLH10 emulator yourself; it's available from the PDP-10 organization on GitHub. Another option is to run the reconstructed ITS off GitHub. It's also a PDP-10 repository on GitHub. Again, self assembly required. Finally, the easiest way is to find some ITS system running online and log in there.

@Chreed96 5 ай бұрын

@larsbrinkhoff oh fun! My dad actually wrote the emulator, I remember as a young kid pouring over pages of floating point operations to make sure everything was right. I put my 2012 christmas wishlist as a comment in the code...

@jw0stephens Жыл бұрын

Nice where can you get this. Make it. Or is someone selling it?

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

Sorry, this is just a limited run prototype. I think there's a chance it could be a kit for sale in the future.

@jimst Жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhofflooks interesting.

@alicewyan Жыл бұрын

Great video, I'm learning quite a bit! But one thing I can't understand: what do you mean at 21:15 when you say that the hello string starts at position 29? how do you calculate the 29?

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

Sorry, should have explained that. There are five 7-bit characters in a 36-bit word. The first character is the most significant bits: 35-29. The PDP-10 byte instructions work with the lower number to specify a byte field, hence 29 points to the first character in the string.

@leocomerford Жыл бұрын

If you feel like another front-panel project after the PiDP-10 (it's completely understandable if you don't want to ever touch another front-panel project again!) how about the Burroughs B5500? It's a very different, very important and advanced computer; free emulators already exist; and its console control panel is quite simple, more or less just a few buttons.

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

This isn't made by me, but Oscar Vermeulen.

@leocomerford Жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Ugh, of course: sorry about that, especially to Oscar Vermeulen.

@herdware Жыл бұрын

Will definately order one of these when they become available.

@GlobalWahrman Жыл бұрын

You might want to explain a little bit more about what you are doing here. It is compelling whatever it is.

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

Good point. There's an updated version with subtitles: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYGygmqoq7FrlbM Still not too obvious. But once the full chain of communication between this emulator and a VAX host running X10 is working, I'll post a more informative video. FYI, it's a 68000 based graphical terminal. On its own, not too interesting, but attached to a VAX it will provide a workstation type environment.

@JimGettys Жыл бұрын

Are you crazy enough to want to bring up an early version of X?

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

I did write this with W and X < 10 in mind, should they ever appear.

@JimGettys Жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff I have what were originally nine track tapes with bits back to the fall of 1984... What are you using for the '68k emulator for the VS100??

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

@@JimGettys We spoke a while ago, and I suggesting preserving the historical data on the tapes. I have been trying to find someone to read your tapes, but no luck so far. I wrote my own 68000 emulator from scratch. I learned assembly language on it back in the 80s, so it's an old favorite of mine that I enjoy working with again.

@JimGettys Жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff no reading necessary. I transcribed them onto rotating magnetic media when I still had access to a nine track drive.

@larsbrinkhoff Жыл бұрын

@@JimGettys Glad to hear it! Would it be possible to put the files online? I know many people would be interested in examining the code and try to resurrect older X versions. If my VS100 emulator would be helpful in this, what would be great!

@jamesbond_007 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome!!! Incredible to see this replica in action like this!

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mr Bond. Did you ever see any PDP-10 computers on your missions?

@qu1j0t3 2 жыл бұрын

Really liked this. Reminds me of a conversation we had about Logo on vector displays. We could recreate this demo on your 602!

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Sure! Which part will you play, Papert or Minsky?

@qu1j0t3 2 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Definitely Papert! All Minsky wanted to talk about was costs, margins and sale prices. Papert was all about the graphics!

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

@@qu1j0t3 Never mind, found your soulmate: myanimelist.net/character/38558/Yuugo_Tennouji

@cstacy 11 ай бұрын

@@qu1j0t3 The purpose of LOGO (and this system) is to get schools to buy in. Schools are very price-sensitive, so making an affordable system and selling it is extremely important. The whole LOGO educational concept is a huge leap. This was before computers were commonly used in schools. If a school was interested in this radical and philosophical concept with the LOGO language, their barrier to adopting it would be cost.

@rbmk1986 2 жыл бұрын

must.... have 😀

@GrantMeStrength 2 жыл бұрын

Pretty blinken

@htdmc2010 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting have to look at PDP Computers after iam done with the Plato System. Right now i am exploring the Plato System Games. The Only Problem that i have is that i could not find much info on the released Games on the Older Computers. Do you perhaps know where i could find he games list released on the PDP Computers?

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, I do not know about such a list. Also, you should know that various PDP computers are different from each other. There are 12, 16, 18, and 36-bit families.

@htdmc2010 2 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Yeah i read about it. And i already know that Simh Emulates severel of them but not all. From the Videos and some infos on the Internet i assume most Early Games were Text Based Games Like Hamurabi and High Noon.

@akay6241 2 жыл бұрын

Great video

@advancedpro7608 2 жыл бұрын

I'm here just because of a videos called "Worst Operating Systems" and this was one 7 OS IN THAT VIDEO but this is still pretty interesting

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! ITS is quite convenient to use and pioneered many advanced features.

@advancedpro7608 2 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff nice!

@GodEmperorSuperStar 2 жыл бұрын

Is the $ an altmode?

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's right.

@ChrisThomas-lt8jd 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I actually want to play Zork on a PDP-11 for a documentary vid I am making on infocom. Would you be able to point me to any info on how you got this all working i.e. where did you get Zork from and then how did you install it on the PDP-10. I have zero experience of a PDP, so please reply accordingly ;)

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

Sure, please email me. My gmail name is larsbrinkhoff.

@RalphHyre 2 жыл бұрын

There was a lot of effort in getting Zork going on both flavors of PDP-10, I played it "a few times" LOAD MADADV.SAV was the unofficial way to get it running on the DecSystem-20, which was a PDP-10 running the standard DEC operating system. ITS was the MIT-developed OS for the PDP-10.

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

@@RalphHyre Interesting. What kind of effort do you mean? It seems like ISI was an early adopter of Muddle and was involved with porting it to TENEX which would have been quite an effort. As far as running Zork goes, I have not heard about what it took to move it over.

@ChrisThomas-lt8jd 2 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff I should explain a little further. I have ordered the PDP-11 replica, which uses a Raspberry Pi to emulate the machine. I THINK that whole package has Adventure installed on it, in at least one of the OS's it comes with. I think it comes with 7 or so. So maybe Zork is on one of them as well. TBH I ideally would like to play Adventure v1, Adventure v2 and Zork I talk about each of these in my documentary, and I would REALLY like to play Adventure v1 (before it was extended) to see how bare bones it was, compared to future developments.

@larsbrinkhoff 2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrisThomas-lt8jd First of all, you should understand the PDP-10 and the PDP-11 were very different machines. Some games run on one, some on the other, and a few on both. The very earliest version of Adventure was written in Fortran on a PDP-10. I have it running on an emulator. I'm not sure if later versions ran on the PDP-11? Maybe so. As for Zork, it was developed on an MIT PDP-10 in the obscure Muddle (or MDL) language. But the code was... "liberated" away from MIT and rewritten in Fortran on a PDP-11. So it depends on which version you want, and really, they are almost identical. The PDP-11 game is also known as Dungeon. I can help you with the PDP-10 games, but please send email if you like to continue on this path.

@hyretech 2 жыл бұрын

I was fortunate that CLU had been ported to the Vaxen by the time I needed it.

@tomrokicki 3 жыл бұрын

This is awesome! Is the Lisp source to Bernie's cube program available anywhere?

@larsbrinkhoff 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's here: github.com/PDP-10/its/tree/master/src/bsg

@pvillez 3 жыл бұрын

Stunning

@GodEmperorSuperStar 3 жыл бұрын

1:40 pseudo locations

@larsbrinkhoff 3 жыл бұрын

Did you have a question about pseudo locations?

@GodEmperorSuperStar 3 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff No, it was hard to understand what you said and the closed captions said "sudo locations".

@larsbrinkhoff 3 жыл бұрын

@@GodEmperorSuperStar Thanks, I fixed some of the errors in the captions.

@GodEmperorSuperStar 3 жыл бұрын

25:00 how are bytes sequenced in words? Why is octal 44 the byte before octal 35?

@larsbrinkhoff 3 жыл бұрын

The byte pointer specifies the byte location inside the word counting from 0 as the least significant bit. This is the location of the left end of the byte. Byte sequence only matters for the two incrementing byte instructions. You might guess they increment the byte posiition, but no, they subtract. So if byte position is 44 initially, ILDB will first decrement it to 35 and then use that updated position to load a byte from the word. The next byte will be at position 26. All numbers in octal. So you may think of bytes as stored left to right in a word.

@GodEmperorSuperStar 3 жыл бұрын

@@larsbrinkhoff Thanks. Is there a manual of PDP-10 opcodes and explanations of their functions?

@larsbrinkhoff 3 жыл бұрын

@@GodEmperorSuperStar Sure, this is from ITS originally: pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/instruction-set/pdp-10.html The full DEC manual is here: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/1982_ProcRefMan.pdf

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