Nope. I still repeat the same method whether the check valve is flanged or grooved. The only time I remove the check and install a filler piece or flip the check is if I’m doing a 5-year Internal Obstruction Investigation and/or flushing the Fire Department Connection piping.

I don’t exactly understand what you’re asking… can you reword it? A flange is nothing more than a pipe joining method. Are talking about installing a blind/blank flange? If so, you would put the blind flange on the supply side (atmospheric pressure side) of the Fire Department Connection check valve. There would be no point in installing a blank/blind flange on the downstream side of the check valve as you’re just creating more work for yourself for no additional benefit other than a potential visual inspection of the inside of the check valve. This video was essentially showing you how to be code complaint for doing a hydrostatic test on a Fire Department Connection as per NFPA 25 with the least amount of effort/invasiveness. I’ve heard some AHJ’s/jurisdictions require the check valve to be flipped 180 degrees and then capped outside/flushed. This is 100% the absolute best thing to do because you can inspect the inside of the check valve a flush out the Fire Department Connection piping- but it’s going above and beyond the minimum standards that NFPA 25 requires. If you want my advice, before going the full 9 yards and flipping that check valve around- do a quick city water pressure test on the Fire Department Connection piping first. Whatever city pressure is 30, 40, 50psi whatever doesn’t matter. The idea is just simply get some water and pressure on that pipe (even an air test is fine) just to check the integrity of the fdc piping before going all out and putting in all this work only to find that there’s a rotted out hole in the pipe hiding behind a wall.

@ yeah my bad I meant a blind. So you're just testing fdc piping and not the check. I was thinking the check had to be hydro tested as well but was thinking how would you do that or if it's even required.

@@1800ClipsNFPA 25 states “The piping from the Fire Department Connection to the check valve shall be hydrostatically tested”. Maybe it’s a matter of interpretation but “to” the check valve in my opinion means right up to the check but theoretically if there was a crack or something wrong with the check valve in that small interstitial space on the supply side and that’s where you’ve capped it off, then you wouldn’t know there’s a problem there so capping off on the downstream side would technically be better. All in all, this video tests up to (and including) the check valve without the necessity of removing the check valve itself so this is why I typically test Fire Department Connections in the manner shown in this video.

@@FireSprinklerSifu thanks brother. Glad I found this video. You should do livestreams as well while you're on a job! I know some situations the phone connections suck but it'd be cool to see what all systems you get into.

So the intermediate chamber (alarm line piping) is typically atmospheric pressure (which is essentially no pressure at all). You should have one water supply line from below the clapper seat that will go to a 1/2" valve (this valve remains normally closed), this valve is called your "alarm test" valve. When you open the alarm test valve, water from below the clapper seat will pressurize the intermediate chamber/alarm line piping with water and put pressure on the PS10-2 waterflow alarm switch. Downstream of your PS10 flow switch it will either directly to a drain and/or go to a water motor operated gong (if one is installed) which will also go to a drain or outside. So essentially the intermediate chamber/alarm line piping normally has no pressure in it. When there is a true waterflow alarm condition on your system (due to an open sprinkler head), eventually you will LOSE pressure on the system and then the water supply pressure will overcome the lower pressure on the SYSTEM side of the alarm check valve. When this happens, the clapper in the alarm check valve will OPEN, and water will then fill those ports mentioned in the video. Those ports lead directly to the intermediate chamber/alarm line piping. This is what causes a flow alarm signal on your system. Its all explained from 42:52 in the video. I've put chapters throughout the video to help narrow down what you're looking for. Hope that helps!

@@FireSprinklerSifu tks! If the alarm test valve is closed as it normally is, then how does the PS10-2 sense water flow and send alarm signal ? Alos once the PS10 is tripped. Does it reset itself once water drains out? Or one has to reset manually?

@@yanggao2343watch the video from the beginning up to about 6:30. But the exact answer to your question is at about 4:30. Water only enters the alarm line piping when the clapper is OPEN. Yes the alarm line typically has a restricted orifice which then goes to drain and/or alarm line will go up to a Water Motor Gong which also has a restricted orifice at the inlet of the Water Motor Gong, and downstream of the gong water goes to drain. I know it’s a long video but all of the questions you have are answered in the video. Re-watch it and you’ll find what you’re looking for. I made lots of timestamps so that should help too.

Thanks! I do eventually plan on making more content, it just comes down to having the right timing/opportunity to do so. A basic wet alarm valve like this video is the bread and butter of sprinkler systems and honestly once you've got these systems understood every other system is easy to pick up after that. They all pretty much work in the exact same manner. Good luck with getting into the trade! Feel free to shoot me a comment if you have any questions.

The wires themselves will be the exact same, however if you need a "normally closed" valve then you should actually order a valve that was designed as "normally closed" because the internal mechanical switch is not the same as a "normally open" control valve. If you're ordering a Victaulic butterfly valve that is "Normally Open" then you need to order a Series 705. If you're ordering a Victaulic butterfly valve that is "Normally Closed" then you need to order a Series 707. If you go to 13:50 in the video you'll see how the internal mechanism works for a Series 705 control valve. In terms of wiring it up, you simply need to pick whichever sets of wires your fire alarm panel wants to see (whether it wants to see normally closed contacts (NC) or normally open contacts (NO)). In the case of the exact valve in the video if my fire alarm panel wanted to see normally closed contacts I would use Yellow W/ Stripe (Common) and Blue or Blue W/ Stripe (NC). If the fire alarm panel wanted to see normally open contacts I would use Yellow W/ Stripe (Common) and Yellow or Brown W/Stripe (NO). If you go to 15:51 in the video and play it on high quality you can actually see the wiring instructions right there on the valve faceplate.

I'm glad it helped. While it may not always be 100% true, I would say yes more often than not sprinkler devices are typically wired with Common and Normally open contacts (and you'll usually find an End of line resistor going across COM + NO contacts). Sometimes there is no actual fire panel and all of the wires just go into a security type keypad, usually those types of fire alarm monitoring utilize COM and NC circuits, so creating an open condition in the wire is what gives the supervisory/alarm signal. At the end of the day its wired based on what the Fire alarm panel wants to see. If you're unsure then you honestly have a 50/50 chance of wiring it right; One wire or pair of wires (depending if its class A or class B wiring) will always go to COM and the other wire or pair of wires will either go to NO or NC. Try it one way and see if the panel clears and then test the switch mechanically to make sure it works. If for example you put the wires to NO and you keep getting a supervisory/alarm on the panel, then switch the wire(s) over to NC instead and it should clear.

Sorry brother I ended up taking on a role at work that stole all hours of the day from me. I'm stepping down from it soon and I would actually like to start making some more video's again. Is there anything in particular you'd like to see?

Yup. It’s quite common to see the FDC tie in below the riser and into the header itself which allows one single FDC to supply multiple system risers. It’s only acceptable to tie into the header if the header itself is checked (either with a backflow or check valve). If the header is not checked and Fire Department were to try and pump water into the building, that pressure would simply dissipate into the water supply and not actually provide any additional volume/pressure into the systems itself. Furthermore the Fire Department Connection SHALL be tied in BELOW any dry pipe valve. It is unacceptable to tie in the Fire Department Connection downstream of a dry pipe valve. If I’m not mistaken, the reason for this is because the hammer of pressure from the Fire Department Connection can actually warp/damage the dry pipe valve clapper (hence the reason why when performing a 200psi hydrostatic test on a dry system you must ensure the clapper remains OPEN when performing the test to not damage the clapper).

This is true, but only for MANUAL and SEMI-AUTOMATIC DRY standpipe systems (at least that’s what’s in NFPA 25 (2014 edition). It’s very possible this may have changed in later codebooks and if so I apologize. My jurisdiction goes off of NFPA 25 (2014 edition) so that’s the one that I’m most knowledgeable on. 6.3.2.1 Hydrostatic tests of not less than 200 psi (13.8 bar) pressure for 2 hours, or at 50 psi (3.4 bar) in excess of the maximum pressure, where maximum pressure is in excess of 150 psi (10.3 bar), shall be conducted ever 5 years on manual standpipe systems and semiautomatic dry standpipe systems, including piping in the fire department connection. I wish I remembered to mention that in the video. I honestly made these videos on the fly while on site and didn’t have any lesson plan… I just showed up on site and realized I had some spare time to kill and decided to make a video.

Agreed. Unfortunately that was just a victim of circumstances for the place I was working at the time. Maybe one day I’ll have time/opportunity to re-make the video in a better environment.

Thanks for the kind words! I'll do my best to make a similar video for a dry pipe valve and hopefully one of each type of preaction system. Is there any material in particular you would like me cover?

Dry systems and preaction systems would be great!! Do you service fire pumps?? That would also be really helpful. I love how you showed the components and explained how they work. I am a fire inspector and I’m trying to understand these systems better. Videos like this help me work with installers as I can speak more intelligently on the systems I see. Older, legacy systems videos are always helpful or even a video on a full 5 year process or internal obstruction investigation 😊😊

Also I wanted to ask, is there a maintenance frequency in NFPA 25 for these excess pressure pumps? I didn’t see them. Does it just fall under a pressure switch for the automatic ones? If so, would that be more of a fire alarm maintenance requirement or fall on sprinkler fitters?

@@juliebellinger6117 I'll see what I can do about dry pipe valves and Pre-action valves. There's a few different variations of them and I like to make videos with actual live systems so that I can actually trip them/show a real world scenario. I do a bit of everything to be honest, its on a job to job basis really. But yes I work on everything, fire pumps, wet, dry, pre-action, deluge, special hazard (FM, Victaulic Vortex, High pressure CO2), foam, fire pumps. I'm a licensed journeyman fire sprinkler installer, and also an inspector. I got lucky on this particular job as I had a fair amount of time during this inspection to the point where I could make use of my spare time to make an instructional video. I'm not always blessed with enough hours in the day to do so. There are quite a few decent videos already out there for fire pump flow testing so I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to make a video on that. It's been on the back of my mind for a while because there are definitely some aspects that I've noticed have gone unexplained and there's multiple methods for flowtesting pumps which would be neat to throw into a single video. Actually for the 5-year internal obstruction investigation I practically did 50% of that in this video. They are very strait forward, simply take photo's of four points on the system: System Valve (which I have open in the video when I took the faceplate off of the alarm valve), Riser (had I pointed my camera UP inside the faceplate and taken a photo that would count as the RISER photo), Cross main (The pipes supplying the branch lines, either directly or through riser nipples), and Branch line (The pipes supplying sprinklers, either directly or through sprigs, drops, return bends, or arm-overs). Snap a minimum 4 photos of the above mentioned points and investigate for the presence of sufficient material to obstruct pipe/sprinklers as well as tubercules or slime Where I live most systems are from a municipal source so I VERY rarely see organic build up of MIC (Microbiologically influenced corrosion). If the system is supplied from a raw water source (like a pond or lake) then you're MUCH more likely to find some goodies. I'll be honest, most wet systems are usually pretty good where I live, but dry systems can certainly be extremely loaded with corrosion so doing internal obstruction investigations on those are for sure worth doing.

@@juliebellinger6117 Excess Pressure pumps are typically positive displacement pumps (usually 1/3HP maybe 1/2HP at most), and are sometimes referred to as a pressure mainteneance/make-up pump. Their terminology often gets mixed up/confused with a Jockey Pump. In their own right, they both kind of fall into the same category, however a Jockey pump is what you would see as a pressure maintenance pump following a fire pump. As per NFPA 25, there is no maintenance required on excess pressure pumps other than your typical visual inspections- However, there is typically a strainer on the inlet side of an excess pressure pump (as mentioned in the video) which must be internally inspected/cleaned every 5 years as per NFPA 25. Most excess pressure pumps literally consist of 2 parts: a pump head, and a small motor. If the pump head seals start leaking, you can just replace that brass pump head easily by simply loosening the bolt connecting the brass head to the motor using a 1/2" open-end box wrench or adjustable crescent. Pull the pump head off and swap it off easy peasy (also just remember to pull out the cross-shaped plastic thing inside the old pump head and put it in the new one... its just there so that the motor drive shaft can spin the internal gears of the pump head). So to put them in order for which pump would turn on FIRST to LAST under normal sequence of operation would be the following: 1) excess pressure pump- turns on to make-up for small loss of SYSTEM pressure. Typically they can keep up with a very small leak on the system, but cannot maintain system pressure should a sprinkler head actually operate. They can be set up for both manual/automatic operation- there is no rule mandating that it must be one or the other. 2) Jockey pump- turns on to make-up for small pressure loss in the HEADER. Turns on/off automatically and is also typically a positive displacement pump. When the excess pressure pump cannot replenish system pressure at a fast enough rate, eventually the system pressure and header pressure will equalize and the alarm valve clapper will open and cause a flow alarm. When this happens, the jockey pump will be running constantly- soon after if the jockey pump is also unable to maintain pressure, the last pump to turn on will be the fire pump. A jockey pump will have its own dedicated controller (similar to a fire pump), and it will also have its own sensing lines installed as per NFPA 20. Last note- jockey pumps shall NOT be required to be listed as per NFPA 20. They can be listed if you want, but its not a requirement. 3) Fire pump- essentially the final pump to turn on. When both the excess pressure pump and jockey pump cannot maintain pressure, eventually the fire pump will automatically turn on. Its the biggest, baddest pump in the valve room. They can be centrifugal/vertical shaft pumps operated by either an electric, diesel, or steam engine/motor.

Thanks! I actually have a few other videos covering a different types of switches. Honestly a majority of switches in sprinklers are the exact same, its always just a normally open or normally closed set of contacts that changes state. Whether its a control valve, flow switch, low/high pressure switch, they all work on that exact same principal. Let me know if there's any additional material you would like me to explain and I'll do my best to get around to making a video covering that subject.

What size hole saw for 6 inch flow switch

That’s a great question, I was waiting for it because I knew someone would ask that eventually and I forgot to clarify in the video; if the Fire Department Connection supplies a sprinkler system, then it needs to be pressure tested at a minimum of 150psi as per NFPA25. However, if the Fire Department Connection supplies Standpipe, then the Fire Department Connection needs to be tested at a minimum of 200psi or 50psi in excess of normal system pressure. So in this video this system was solely a sprinkler system which is why I only pressure tested to 150psi. Thanks for the comment and great question! I really wish I remembered to point that out in the video.

What if it's a combo ?

Thanks for the compliments and the comment! The velocity drip check and ball drip are honestly very similar in how they function. Both of them will allow a small volume of water to flow through them, however if they are under a pressure (flowing water from the alarm line of a dry pipe valve tripping or if the fire department connection piping is under pressure in the event that the fire department does indeed hook up to the FDC to try and pump water into the building). The major differences between them is that the ball drip will seal up and there's no means to "reset" it, you simply need to take pressure off of the pipe to the point where that ball will roll itself out of that concave shaped cavity. A velocity drip check on the other hand obviously has that plunger which you can use to manually force that ball out of the concave cavity if it is under pressure. Depending on how your dry pipe valve is trimmed, the velocity drip check "should" eventually automatically drain after pressure is removed from the alarm line piping. Velocity drips are really just designed to "automatically" drain small amounts of water in the event that the clapper seat on a dry pipe valve or preaction/deluge valve starts passing small amounts of air/water from either the supply side or system side of the clapper. If you notice air constantly leaking from the velocity check, you know its system air dumping. If you see water leaking from the velocity check... it could be either supply water leaking past the clapper seat, or you could still possibly be the system side priming water passing; I would say wait to see if the water stops but really it doesn't matter, inspect the brass clapper itself to see if it's warped. If not, service or replace the clapper rubber and that should fix the issue. At somepoint in time you'll hear fitters tell you if you're having a hard time trying to get air back on the dry pipe valve, they'll tell you to remove the velocity drip and install a 1/2" ball valve there and leave it closed while putting air back on (or just use a spare sprinkler head out of the headbox to plug it up). Once you get to 10psi system air or so they'll say throttle open/closed the ball valve and it'll suck the clapper seat down. When trying to put priming water/air back on the system, the velocity drip check will sometimes dump system air and/or priming water so you just need a means of temporarily plugging off the alarm line to lock in that priming water/system air while the system pumps up to push down on that clapper seat to create a seal. **You NEED to remember to remove pressure off of the alarm line before opening the main control valve and putting water back on the supply side of the clapper (hence why a ball valve is preferred over just plugging the alarm line with a sprinkler head or 1/2" plug)... if you forget then you're just going to end up tripping your dry pipe valve because you've essentially just created an accelerator on the alarm line piping** Hopefully that answered your question. Its sometimes easiest to just get your hands on the parts and examine them yourself so you can see how they work.

Thanks for the comment and compliment, I really appreciate it!

Thanks brother! I’m glad you like it!

Thanks I appreciate it!

​@@FireSprinklerSifu can you give a demonstration of when doing a flow test through the FDC here in New York we have to flip the check valve when doing so, I saw it done once just looking to lock in the procedure of doing so

​@@BPH435 Hey bro, so I had to do a little bit of digging and it seems as though NYC fire code refers to NFPA 25 (2017 edition) as the accepted standard. There is nothing in NFPA 25 (2017 edition) that actually states that the FDC check valve needs to be flipped around when doing a hydrostatic test. There's actually nothing in NFPA 25 (2017 edition) that actually requires a residual (flowing) pressure test on the FDC piping either. If this is how the fire marshals in your municipality demand for the test to be done then so be it, however there is nothing in NFPA 25 to support doing the hydrostatic test this way. One thing I didn't mention in my video was that this 150psi test only applies to FDC's for sprinkler systems. When testing FDC's for standpipe systems, its actually a minimum 200psi hydrostatic test or 50psi in excess of normal working system pressure (whichever is greater). Personally, before setting up pumps/flipping the check valve around I would simply put regular city water supply pressure on the FDC piping just as a preliminary test to see if there's any leaks (why go through the hassle of draining/flipping checks/setting up pumps if there is a leak in the system piping which can be detected by simply hooking up a garden hose?). That being said there's pro's and con's to flipping the check valve. Cons: - It's time consuming flipping the check as it requires a full system drain down - additional materials may be required when flipping the check valve (especially flanged checks as they may require replacement gaskets) - It's putting the entire building at risk in the event of a fire as it requires a full system drain down while you are flipping the check valve around - It's putting the entire building at risk for the entire time that the FDC check valve is reversed because now in the event of a fire, the fire department themselves cannot hook up to it because with the check valve reversed, they simply cannot pump water into the building. - It may not be feasible to do so especially on high pressure systems where a heavy duty 6" swing check valve weighs 200lb - After flipping the check valve, if your normal system pressure matches/exceeds your hydrostatic test pressure you would actually want to isolate and drain down the system pressure (which would now be supply pressure) to below your testing pressure- otherwise if there is a small leak happening on your FDC piping that is inaccessible/not visible (perhaps behind a wall), you would have no idea its leaking. Pros: - By flipping the check valve around, it gives you the opportunity to actually "flush" your fdc piping system- but this would only work with a siamese style pump head where there is one single clapper that flips back and forth between the two 2-1/2" hose connections. If you have the same style pump head as the one in my video... how would you keep those two 2-1/2' check valves in the open position while simultaneously trying to flush? As seen in the video I used a piece of pipe to wedge those two 2-1/2" check valves open to perform the hydrostatic test. If I were to flip the check valve around and FLUSH that pipe, odds are those two pieces of pipe would just get flushed out almost instantly and then those check valves would just close on themselves. So to answer your question, can the test be performed by flipping the FDC check valve around? Yes it can be done. Is it necessary to do so as per NFPA 25 (2017 edition), no it is not. IF the fire department is hellbent on doing it this way for the sole purpose of flushing the pipe to ensure there are no obstructions, I would ask them if its possible to perform an internal obstruction investigation on your fire department connection piping to verify 100% that it is not obstructed by anything. As per NFPA 25 (2017 edition) there is no requirement for any residual flow test on the Fire Department Connection piping, only a 2-hour hydrostatic test (150psi for sprinkler, 200psi or greater for standpipe). NFPA 25 (2017 edition) Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems. 6.3.2 Hydrostatic Tests. (standpipe) 6.3.2.1* Hydrostatic tests of not less than 200 psi (13.8 bar) pressure for 2 hours, or at 50 psi (3.4 bar) in excess of the maximum pressure, where maximum pressure is in excess of 150 psi (10.3 bar), shall be conducted every 5 years on manual standpipe systems and semiautomatic dry standpipe systems, including piping in the ƒre department connection. 13.8.5 The piping from the fire department connection to the fire department check valve shall be hydrostatically tested at 150 psi (10 bar) for 2 hours at least once every 5 years. Table 13.11.1 Fire department connection- sprinkler system(s). Inspection, Test, and Maintenance Procedures. (1) Isolate and hydrostatic test for 2 hours at 150psi (10 bar). (2) Main drain test (only when a control valve has been closed) Fire department connection- other than sprinkler system(s) Inspection, Test, and Maintenance Procedures. (1) Isolate and hydrostatic test for 2 hours at 50 psi (3.5 bar) above the normal working pressure [200 psi (14 bar) minimum]. (2) Main drain test (only when a control valve has been closed) Hopefully that answers your question brother.

Bro, I can't say how much I appreciate and respect your Knowledge and thoroughness in this Trade of ours!! I love it Bro!! Really I was literally just watching your link to the first video when j saw your response to my question.. So in New York the Fire inspectors want to see the flow just to ensure that the water is coming out clear.. they literally watch it for no more than 5 minutes and then we wrap it up and pressurize the system all this is done with the check valve out as you said there is alot of risk that is ran by doing this I will in the future fill up with air first to ensure there is no leaks or missing pipe before going straight to it.. we do the same similar procedure that you do with the pipes holding open the check valves on the FDC what we do is we screw an piece of 2½ in diameter pipe into an manifold Rig equipped with a gauge and a hose cock on both of the Threads of the FDC and then proceed to Pump up the System either with a Hydrostatic pump or turn the pump on until whoever is outside confirms that we have reached our desired PSI. Now that you have confirmed by code we do not have to flow I will be citing this to all inspectors when doing future 5 Year FDC test.. I'm. Currently studying for my Nicet 1 in Sprinkler so I have to get savvy with code. Looking forward to more of your knowledge and videos I truly, truly appreciate it!!!

Quick question to pressurize the wet side of the check valve do you first isolate everything that I'd above the check valve meaning if your able to isolate the 1st Floor you isolate then do you torn on the pump or is it another procedure you take?