we use tools outside of the game to learn tricks that are doable inside, for example the final descent manip was discovered using tools, but you dont need any tools to use it ingame, jsut knowledge and execution. I personally agree with this method if you can learn something using 3rd party tools, which we have done many times in the past whether it be step manipulation, Stinger Skip etc. as long as you dont require 3rd party assistance to perform it during the run its 100% legit, thats why elevator manipulation to me is has and will forever be bullshit until a new method is found

@G.Snackwell the biggest gripe i have if i didnt make it clear enough in the video is that the skip requires, literally requires 5 different tools to work, ontop of that you have to be streaming to do the trick since it requires you to go into your vod and rewatch it in slow motion, multiple spreadsheets that you input information that then calculate for you and give you what you have to do, its a grotesque method that only was allowed because the head admins of the ff7 speedrun community are the ones that found it. It is also the ONLY trick/skip/manip in the game that you cannot perform with just knowledge or hand written notes my stance and unwillingness to use it in a run will not change unless the method in which the elevator is manipulated changes

@@CarNage64SR Your position is clear and I think it’s an interesting debate. As someone who has recently become interested in ff7 speedrunning I agree it's not a legitimate non-tas strategy despite the countless hours of good faith research and work that went into the development. It's an impressive accomplishment and underscores the technical sophistication and rigor of the community. That said , it’s surprising to me that the same level of thought wasn’t applied to how it’s utilization would affect the classification of speedrun in which it’s used. Clearly there is a divide within the community and those who developed this shouldn’t be determining it’s legitimacy (no matter how fun it is) especially when it’s pushing the boundaries of historical precedent with the plethora of external assistance required to succesfully execute. Speedrunning has been around long enough that is should have clearly defined standards and a social consensus about what is permissible. Thanks for uploading the video, I think it’s an important discussion and, if nothing else, highlights the greatness of FF7 and why we keep coming back to it.

@G.Snackwell thank you for your feedback and i wish that were the case, as I have tried to argue many times on this situation speedrunning does have defined rules and concepts and no matter how i argue they just do what they enjoy. For example in the No Major Skips category they allow stinger skip but dont allow aerith playground skip, why? "Because we like the stinger skip its cool and we dont like the aerith playground skip it sucks" neither of those reasonings imo matter. I made a set of criteria of what would "qualify" as a major skip based on 7 factors some include; time saved, affect on character position, does it skip required battles etc and if enough boxes were checked it is major, but that was ruled as "arbitrary" rules instead their mindest of we allow what we like and ban what we dont won the day its infuriating to no end for me to see these folks just not care about any kind of ethical standard

@G.Snackwell and the elevator manipulation in its current form is 100% a TAS strat and makes the run a TAS run they just dont like to hear that but it doesnt change that a spade is still a spade even if it doesnt wanna be

my pleasure

maybe but prolly not id wager

@@IStoleYourCookie1 xD

@@cornish7770 xD

@@MrTsengar no the method still has not changed

@@CarNage64SR Bummer!

@MrTsengar it is what it is they are set in their ways and believe these kinds of things are ok, ive had numerous arguments over many different subjects with them, they make rules based on what they like not what logically makes sense

@@K1W1MAT forgot to grab the elixir in the new route :(

@@SmartCeiling8854 we wait no longer!

Lots of cutscene skipping trims it down from like a 24 hour run to 6-9 hours

I dont recall but it might be in my full play of this section which is also on my channel this was just the kill attempt xD sorry

@@CarNage64SR No worries! I’ll go check it out thanks!

havent heard of that xD

If you interesting it's available in CDRomance 🎮

@@Kaiseran_Games what is cd romance?

Tyty

Ya know that does sound much smarter than the way i did xD tbh i didnt do much different throughout all of hardmode i just kinda made my build "work" xD

Yea i had to cheat and pause buffer 3d brawler xD but these mandrakes were like whaaaaaat the fuck xD

Lmao nice! XD and yea i used magnofy primarly defensively to spread manawall etc

Bruh i was mind blown xD

A real WTF moment. First Hard mode quest I did, I forgot there was even a fight here and was just going to pick flowers. Fast travel over and get blown the fuck up in 2 seconds.

Ya had the same experience 👍

Its a rough one lost my dad a couple years back it aint easy

Don't make my mistake 😂

Yea suuuuper annoying haha

hey thank you so much :D glad your enjoying it

Yea for sure it has been awesome!

haha ty yea was brutal xD

Thanks xD

There will always be people that deny the truth, some people still think we never went to the moon afterall xD

couldnt have said it better myself :D

Man i wish i had those too back then i wasnt good at all on adding stuff to KZbin but i have gotten much better at adding content everyday. I truly wish i had my og remake playthrough i did a remake replay before rebirth but that isnt the same thing xD i appreciate you watching and commenting on my rebirth playthrough it really helps and im glad to see you are enjoying it <3

Far and away exceeded my expectations :D so far its been amazing cant wait for part 3

Honestly i think its a good thing it was so unforgivingly cruel it really illustrates how awful hojo is and how much aerith has gone through already and just how much of a burden all the characters have think about it, cloud, barrett, vincent, aerith, tifa have all had precious loved ones killed because of shinra and sephiroth/hojo/jenova

Special magnets in his back duuuuh xD 🧲

XD yea was down to the wire on the kill but i think thats a good thing it wasnt a cakewalk

Tbh the hardest fight i think so far is the red dragon fight atleast for my party the solo fights are also more annoying not hard but cheap sometimes

@@CarNage64SR it seems to me Square thought the best way to make this game harder was to restrict players which in my opinion is irritating and lazy. Don't get me wrong I Iove this game but the some of the boss fights and combat simulations are infuriating.

@schools6555 yea i mean it is what it is tbf tho if we could use items in hard mode it would be pretty easy ill say so i dont mind it items are op

One could argue there is no real default since it all depends on what your affection is, but yes she does appear as rosa more often however i would argue the loveless section feels very empty with aerith as rosa because of how little variety of characters appear and it is very awkward to go from aerith being rosa to all of a sudden singing and cloud being alone. The more full play imo and what the game builds up is cloud and tifa being the main date imo

@@CarNage64SR it's not about affinity level. Aerith is Rosa in hers, Barret, Red, and Cait/Vincent/Cid dates. Plus Rosa even holds staff just like Aerith does. And the prediction Cait makes if you ask about your future with Rosa about "chance encounter ending in a tearful farewell" is very on a nose for Aerith.

@didinau true but that can also be said for any of the rosa's but it is definitely more akin to aerith but that is also just the plays writing loveless the goddess is JENOVA just for me aeriths date as rosa feels very empty in the play very little variety and its also frame by frame the same as yuffies where tifas is the only date that is a bit longer and has variety in the choreography to aerith and yuffie its all very interesting

I mean again the game focuses on cloud and tifas relationship throughout and only really deviates to focus on aerith in the temple as it should, and yea i didnt unlock her synergies cause i didnt use her in my first playthrough? So what xD i am a big fan prolly the biggest fan of ff7 that exists id be willing to debate anyone on that, and yea objectively the focus was primarily on tifa and cloud and if you didnt see that you just werent looking for it thats all but enjoy part 3 as i know i will enjoy it if they keep up what they are doing

I would be happy to debate you anytime with plenty of examples to prove my comment anytime you wish to do so :)

@@CarNage64SR Gongaga and Zack's parents / zacks story as a whole focused on saving her, the song at gold saucer regardless of if you pick her for the date or not. Her coming to terms with what she is in cosmo canyon and admitting these are her first real friends supporting her. The entire ending of the game. The loads of extra mini games that you're forced to either bring or play with Aerith. The dream / alternate world / date Aerith takes you on after the Temple. There isn't must debate to be had. Yes. Tifa has a few parts but so does everyone else. The focus is almost entirely Aerith. I love Tifa and Aerith both but this was undeniably her game. Just like remake was clouds game. Hollow is about Cloud. No Promises is Aerith And I'll bet you money the theme from part three will be about Tifa.

@LiracyonLeague its nice that you mention gongaga we can ignore the dates cause every character has that, Beginning in kalm - entire chapter is dedicated to their past not just one scene then they have a 1 on 1 conversation about tifa being real or not barrett even comments on them fighting Junon - the conversation in the bedroom where cloud talks about he regrets what he said in kalm and she "tests" him again and cloud makes a promise to have a good conversation with her later Costa del sol - minor cute stuff but him getting tongue tied staring at her in a bikini and the little side convo revolving around tifa just being friends with johnny again minor but worth mentioning Corel - again not much from either character here, but the line about cloud jr looking like but only cute very minor but a nice little flirtatious moment that she does infront of barrett and yuffie Gongaga - the scene with zacks parents is a very minor one but it is also shared by tifa where cloud comments about zack being a loser and both tifa and aerith react like "did he just say that?" And after tifa and aerith talk clouds eyes follow tifa away, the theres the entire bit in gongaga where cloud tries to kill tifa while possesed and she goes into the lifestream and then after that cloud and tifahave that 1 on 1 convo and would have kissed if not interrupted Cosmo - while yes aerith gets a little speech in cosmo, the story in convo begins with tifa opening up about her experience in the lifestream and she tells the story not once but twice and is highlighted multiple times in cosmo, which shares a bit for tifa, aerith and of course nanaki Nibelheim - dont really need to list everything but its numerous and overwhelming for obvious reason how much emphasis nibelheim was about tifa and clouds past yet another entire chapter dedicated to them Then of course we reach endgame where the focus shifts to aerith because we are in the temple, but they do share that moment of finishing off red dragon together. Honorable mentions throughout all of this is that whenever cloud is having his JENOVA takeover episodes tifa is the one to snap him back to reality over 5+ times throughout the game including in the temple where aerith repeatedly either ignores him during these moments or when she tries he ignores her. So for all those numerous reasons listed i will argue the core story is about cloud and tifa and building us up for part 3 where tifa puts cloud back together officially, there are just way more non optional moments that the story revolves around clpud and tifa specifically whereas when it swaps to aerith its mostly about everyone not just cloud and aerith. Whew long read there but hopefully it makes sense xD

@LiracyonLeague to me it almost feels like they were making the gameand focusing so much on setting up cloud and tifas story for part 3 that they got to the end and went, "oh shit yea this is aeriths part now gotta shift gears for a sec to wrap that up" she just doesnt get enough throughout the game and its very back loaded for her shes practically ignored during the beginning and entire middle until the last 2chapters

XD definitely something i knew would come eventually but i still was not ready xD

XD yea but the game considers it a boss sooooo yolo

Agreed that would be really cool :)

Stupid question

@@CloudKzo not my fault you're gay

100% can't wait for part 3 I have a feeling it's gonna be a tear jerker

Oh man at the beginning I was losing it with him like "cloud your fucking this up for us big time dude what the hell"

Sorry I guess xD

No kidding xD