ALWAYS the same discredited argument. White people are most likely to be affirming.

Maybe in 20 years they can be a part of GRE

Thanks for listening and for the feedback, Doug! I had that surgery illustration in my notes, because that's how John Chrysostom described self-discipline and church discipline all the way back in the 3rd century. Surgery without care causes permanent damage, but no surgery leaves us unhealthy and even in danger of dying. I chopped it because the talk was already long enough! Thanks again!

Because, if people understood God’s Word and its authority, they wouldn’t default to worldly ideologies.

The final Word is Jesus. Biblical literacy matters because through it we are more able to understand how others use the supposed "authority" of scripture in the the service of their self-serving interpretations. On the one hand it is very simple: "Your sins are forgiven", and God loves you and sent Jesus to show you how to love others the same way and therebye truly love Him. Biblical literacy requires the humility that God and His Scripture are larger than our understanding. If someone make themselves out to be god such that they have the only "correct" interpretation - it would be wise to give them a wide berth and seek to associate with those who are really showing love to real live people.

Pastors true to scripture!

If you read overtures 47 or 48, they clearly outline how the WICO protest was directly created and allowed by Synod, and how different that is from these churches that were trying to "qualify" their participation in the denomination. The two forms of "protest" have nothing in common.

There is a real difference and the movement you are in will continue to insist on its way. I am really impressed with how the CRC is handling this is a caring but firm way. The acrimony would have been/could have been long & ugly if the truth of these differences were denied.

Discipline of members is governed by the local Council, and baring from Communion is generally one of the steps, so I would doubt any were immediately barred from the table?

There are 28 (or so) churches across the denomination (US and Canada, and I believe that includes both affirming and protesting churches), and I'm very certain Madison Square is not one of them.

Hmm guess we will wait to hear! What will we do when they come for us?

This is like how Kevin, in Home Alone, acts towards his neighbor. Maybe you should actually talk to people rather than just going with the nonsense your brothers (and sisters) are feeding you

@@moecrazy Huh? Kevin was kind of cute in those videos (he has much more hair) but I'm just going with the references from these videos. I wouldn't call these videos nonsense. Much is helpful here. But they do repeatedly say things like 'my friend in Ontario shared" this or that from Classis or a church's website or social media. So there seems like a list. (So when Abide puts out a video challenging certain churches or groups in a public way on these videos... that's ok... but if a comment is made here... in their comment section... that is too public? Hmmm...)

That would be Synod's function, not Abide's. And the list was already self-submitted to Synod by the congregations in protest

God divides families as a matter of His redemptive power. No church or collection of churches are above that.

@@StevenSmith-1863 , Amen!

What, then does one do with the story of expulsion from Eden, or the flood of Noah's Day, or Jesus teaching of the separation of the sheep from the goats, or loving God more than mother and/or father? Ultimately, as Deuteronomy makes clear, it is not God's decision but our own. Prior to entering the promised land he make it clear that there experience (blessing vs. curse, prosperity vs. destruction, life vs. death) rested in their own hands: would they follow Torah (teaching/instruction) or not. He disciplines those whom he loves. See it as positive, not negative.

The UCC is looking for members.

Any split that occurs in this situation is a result of churches that have broken covenant with the denomination by willfully ignoring the confessions and doctrine that the vast majority of the denomination makes every effort to follow.

***confused Mark 10 and Matthew 25 noises***

You probably will have cake and celebrate tonight as well with your Abide friends. The rest of us will be in tears because we are losing so many wonderful Christians who have served the church so faithfully.

Alliance is a new and developing body, and there is certainly much we agree with them on, yet other items where we are not as well meshed together. I think that there are ARC churches (as well as RCA churches) that will join and become full CRC churches in the next 2-5 years, and there will also be many Alliance churches that will work well together with CRC in local contexts.

Yes, why don't you join the alliance and let the rest of us have our church back, a church known for ever transforming and reforming and exhibiting just how wide and high and deep is the love of Jesus? Jesus is our gatekeeper of the sheepfold. Worshipping doctrine and basing our salvation on the doctrines of our faith minimizes the grace of our Savior and puts too much pride in our efforts and decisions.

@@patcavanaugh429, why would 75% of the denomination leave?

Yes, 75 per cent of the delegates to Synod who we know were intentionally members or sympathetic to Abide would leave and they would have their followers. But I am probably twice your age and have many friends in churches across the states and even Canada who pay no attention to Synod and are just busy with loving and serving the Lord in their church families and communities. Their faith is not threatened by what other church councils do and think. If Abide established their own denomination, you could be assured of having your pure church where everyone thinks the same way and your faith wouldn't be threatened. You could have your own seminary and college to train everyone to think with Abide instead of trying to infiltrate Calvin's and the Seminary 's boards to cleanse those institutions. Your group would be very happy to have your pure church and the rest of us could continue to be a hospital for sinners as the true CRC, an ever reforming and transforming people who love the Lord and seek to evidence the fruits of the Spirit, whose faith is not threatened by divergent thought. Both sides would be happy instead of the sadness we witnessed from both groups at Synod. Abide would also be evidencing the Fruits of the Spirit to the outside world and that Light could draw more people to Jesus instead of driving them away.

If any church whether Creedo or Paedo excludes the other while allowing women into office then that speaks volumes to where that Church or denomination currently is. One is 100% undoubtedly clear and the other is not so much.

Because after reading the bible ppl find out that Infant baptism is not biblical !

God's word is pretty clear that women should not be in the office and definitely not for women pastors . The authority of God in Scripture from the book of Timothy has been torn out in many CRCs . It's about obedience . .. Satan whispers in ppl's ears ; did God really say.... A slow fade leads to other sins in the church . Now transgender serving on staff in a CRC in Muskegon .. Come back to your first love .. not man's opinions .

What's going on?

Oh no, the “tone” police are out again! Sorry, but the Joy of the Lord is to be our strength!

Agreed, thank you @thomashoeksemasr7949.

Thomas, maybe you can find a video from Puddleglum to keep you up to date on Synod’s proceedings???

@@lloydhemstreet3226 Not helpful Lloyd.

@@margorana2628 - Nope.

If following the Bible's teachings is heartbreaking then possibly you are missing teaching, rebuking and encouraging that Paul teaches Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage-with great patience and careful instruction."

@@JP-hm8wt - Nope. That's not the heartbreaking part, but thanks.

I think that is highly unlikely at this point.