How do you handle it when you've had enough and just start shutting downi.e. not really caring anymore.

This is an excellent and informative video. You make great points about being an introvert and being an extrovert. I don't believe it's a sin to be an introvert, and I don't believe it's a sin to be an extrovert. I believe being an introvert isn't an excuse for people not to go to church since God doesn't want people to forsake the assembling of believers. I also believe that being an extrovert isn't an excuse to be arrogant, prideful, etc since God doesn't want people to be arrogant, prideful, etc. I like the point you made about speaking to a crowd of people being different from interacting with people since the two of them aren't the same thing. A lot of introverts don't struggle with speaking in public. Introversion is more about social energy interacting with people than speaking to a crowd of people. I believe that introverts are capable of being pastors, and I believe that extroverts are capable of being pastors. Even though pastors are often stereotyped as being extroverted, there are a lot of great introverted pastors out there. Being an introverted pastor isn't rare. The statistics I've heard on introverted pastors is around 25-40% of pastors are introverts. I think the main reason why some people think introverts aren't capable of being pastors is because of how many churches expect the pastor to do everything, be on call 24-7, etc, which can get exhausting for introverts; extroverts can get exhausted by all that; but introverts especially get exhausted by that. Large churches typically don't expect the pastor to do everything, be on call 24-7, etc, but a lot of small churches expect the pastor to do everything, be on call 24-7, etc. I do believe that churches shouldn't expect the pastor to do everything, be on call 24-7, etc since the Bible talks about the church functioning as a body. If the Bible talks about the church functioning as a body, it shows how God doesn't want churches to expect the pastor to do everything. I believe the qualifications churches should go by in choosing a pastor of a church are how well they can teach the Bible to people, how well they lead a church, their spiritual maturity, how good of a role model they are, and their character. Keep up the great work living for the Lord. I wish you the best.

As a pastor I can attest to this video being accurate. All I know is that the only ones who complain about the following list are boomers: 1) sermons being 45-50 minutes 2) teaching doctrine and theology to children instead of crafts and coloring 3) not wanting personal items for decoration but professional clean rooms and areas that can be used by everyone 4) wanting Bible taught instead of games at VBS It’s incredible to hear that generation complain about the world becoming more liberal and churches compromising but at the same time want sermons and lessons watered down.

TY

Some good advice there. Thanks.

Very timely message, thank you! Just started a new pastorate and we're doing a study of Who Moved My Pulpit. Do you still have an active link to the change readiness inventory at the end of the book?

Being visually impaired, I have to use my MacBook Pro with a 15inch screen using KeyNote. I use the entire slide and screen for both my notes and all Bible verses. This system does not trigger fear from listeners who see the old system that I had to use with a 6 inch thick 3 ring binder. I've consistently been advised that Apple products are the best for the visually impaired.

Haha

Rainers are trainers

Just went through this with our now former congregation. Something my wife shared with the elders wife 6 years ago when we first walked in has now come back as “I don’t know if there’s something going on in your house or marriage” now that I’ve called the elder into question regarding the conduct and behavior of his wife which ultimately would call his conduct and behavior into question as well. Accountability was one of the 2 concerns I brought up at the church meeting. The other was the elder couple has no kids and cannot relate to why I as a husband and father think and move the way I do. “Gaslighting” has definitely been a factor and still is at our now former congregation. And the elder is very self referential in just about everything giving himself preeminence as Diotrophes practiced. Dr. Michael Kruger also has a great body of work on this issue. Thank you gents for this important discussion

TY

I just listened to the DeChurching audio book. I'm a evangelical pastor from Canada. Of course our two countries have our differences but I'd be curious how similar and dissimilar we would be in the author's statistical findings. Because I listened to an audiobook I didn't have access to any of the data points, otherwise I would like to see where they polled people from. I also observed that their research is over a year old. Why is this important? Well, since their stats revealed that most people polled, in just about every category, were far more Democratic (left-leaning) than they were Republican (right-leaning), I'd be curious as a Canadian news watcher how that plays out a year later, since the landslide of the Repub/Trump vote recently revealed that though people may report on a poll that they are left-leaning, obviously they're not. Otherwise, we'd have to conclude that the majority of the American population shifted their political and moral leanings from the left to the right in a year or so. This isn't a political curiosity as much as it is a question about how much we can trust the reliability of polls. This would seriously put the reasons for the Great DeChurching (which is really happening even here in Canada) in question. I think generally the reasons given are close to realistic, but I think there is another reason that wasn't considered in the polling, probably because it's too subjective and it comes across too judgmental... namely that "Christians" are not all that deeply converted and then discipled. That's not a new problem. Decades of failure to do this, in favor of the priority of pew-filling has led us to the point we are in today.

After planting churches in West Africa, simple, under mango trees. I returned to Canada, to part-time pay church. But since went to establishing simple home gatherings, both here in Canada and Mali, Africa. The USA also. My shift began in 2003-2005. Just cannot go back to heavily programed ministry.

Thank you, guys. Merry Christmas!

“Judeo Christian” is not Christianity. The former is solely about the law, the latter is predominated by the Gospel that our sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ. Plain and simple, our nation was not founded on the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ.

Need the link please am from Uganda having a local church now

The United States is not a "Christian" nation. Its founders mostly professed Christianity but didn't live it out. The document they drafted, the Constitution, included a set of freedoms, entrenched in our law that includes the freedom of religion and from religion and the right of the people to life, liberty and the pursuit of (lawful) happiness. It is a civil document, not a religious one. Scripture does not bear any evidence of Jesus forcing anyone to believe in Him as Messiah or Savior. He never advocated force either. Christian Nationalism is primarily a racist entity that has put on the look of Christianity in its pious posturings, but like the founders, has nothing to do with Christ at all.

What if you have a church with no official elders and the Pastor preaches all three service every Sunday. There are other gifted called by God men but they are only permitted to preach 2x a year maximum. Does this indicate a possible problem with the lead pastor?

Is the Lord calling Churchs to downsize? What I mean is that maybe we need to move toward house churches because they are so effective in evangelism.

Something we do prayer-wise is to have a rhythm for our prayer focus. The first Sunday of each month, we use info from the Joshua Project to pray for an unreached people group. Then, the last Sunday of each month we pray together for people who don't follow Jesus as well as our witness to them.

Keep in mind the healthier a church becomes, the louder the toxic people resist. That makes for tough ministry. Staying is hard to do, leaving allows the toxic people to win out. This is where the church is these days and why most churches are stagnant. It almost doesn't pay to work to make a church or pastor healthier. The healthier the pastor gets the more of an outlier he becomes in this season of ministry.

Sycophants...... Family members ‼️

The Pattern............

"Be an equiper not a doer." Those words come out of my mouth many times a week as a lead pastor with multiple part-time staff.

Every Pastor can relate to this! Some Sundays, I have two very loud babies competing with me one on each side of the congregation! Young couples simply don’t want to use the nursery these days. I’m glad the families are in church, I just hope our modern sound system overrules these angry babies! If not handled correctly, you could easily lose those families forever. And yet 250+ people shouldn’t have to struggle to hear the sermon. I’m thinking, encouraging our children’s ministry to target invitations to those families might be the answer. And for the record, I once officiated a wedding, where the groom and I walked down the aisle to happy birthday! So there is THAT!

Thank you for this, this is such an important price in order to move forward in rebuilding.

Religion is a scam and the church is a very evil institution.

Excellent, pointed, relevant content. Thank you.

One of my favorite “distraction” stories happened to a fellow pastor of mine at another church. To set the setting:Their deacons would pray for the offertory prayer and would stand up where they were to offer the prayer (on a rotation) One of the deacons fell asleep during the service while he was preaching and started lightly snoring. A fellow deacon sitting behind him got an idea. The other deacon nudged him to wake him up. The deacon sleeping woke up and goes “huh?” The deacon who woke him goes “your turn to pray!” So while he was still in the middle of preaching. The deacon stands straight up and goes, “let us pray, Heavenly Father thank you for….” Everyone just freezes, look at the pastor, and back at the deacon. Laughter erupted (pastor included). The deacon who woke him up was slapping his knee.

Could you give an example or definition of "toxic"? I'm on the other side of this issue and by some, could be seen as "toxic" by some, although my rationale is not to cause chaos but protection of others. I've also had to deal with leaders who have been deceitful, dishonest, dismissive, delegitimizing, gasligthting, gossips, deflective, and evasive not just with me concerning significant concerns with sin patterns which harmed people but also to members of an already tender community in my city. To date, there's been scant, isolated heavily conditioned fauxpology without accountability. I'm open to honest, candid conversation, have pursued resolution and relationship, and followed Scripture, including Matthew 18 and 1 Timothy 5:20. After giving it much time (18 months) for self-correction, I have become vocal for the protection of people because what is being portrayed is not what is actually being done. At what point does it become necessary to warn of wolves? The harm that is being done in Jesus' Name is significant and by description of information, toxic in its own. I've surrendered this to the Lord and I am open to correction but my rationale for my actions also is supported by Scripture. When someone has an "issue" they bring to you, how do you handle that? Are you honest and candid and interested in considering their perspective? I know that answers are likely yes but I'm at a loss as to how to handle what fits the description of "toxic leaders." Your insight would be helpful.

I started a new lead pastorate a little over a year ago. I have had 250 church people over for lunch or dinner (yes, I have an awesome wife!) in groups of 4-10 (nearly every person in the church). I've asked three questions; 1. What brought you to this church? 2. What keeps you at this church? 3. What would you like to see grow/change in this church? It has been absolutely monumental in building relationships and a foundation going forward.

Sam dropping the truth about sweet tea😂

9:34 🤣 Heavy user... Nellie Jo! Who's Nellie Jo?! Duh. Sums up the whole podcast.

Thom, thank you, your wisdom and community helped over the years to be able to see areas in serving that I never thought of, and to understand and heal from in congregational changes. I just recommended simple church and Autopsy to a pastor today.

I agree with Sam no pop noises

Going further, I like reminding disciples that Church attendance is the first spiritual discipline in a believer's life. If you stay home on Sunday, you start to drift away from Bible reading, prayer, serving, and all other disciple activities. Church attendance and engagement begin and move us forward in discipleship. It's more than just something Christians do.

Don't forget that beyond shutins there are families with disabled children that find in person services difficult to attend. Most churches do not have the facilities or support for those with intellectual disabilities. Online gives these families the option to view services.

Thank you Sam for this conversation. I was a seminary student at Southwestern Seminary from 2004-2008 & an obsessive reader of both Marty's & Ben's blogs during that time. They kept me encouraged & hopeful that things could change in our convention. I am grateful to these two brothers and thankful for them.

I have been monitoring our online live numbers and they are very small. I think we are fooling ourselves that online services are having much of an impact at all. I'm not advocating discontinuing but let's stop spending money on it and doing worship for the camera as if that should control how we do Sunday mornings.

FYI, I love your series. After seeing the short and long podcasts, I definitely like the short ones! TGBTG.

This video needs to be watched by every Baptist pastor in the 2020s. Great video, Bro. Thom!

Thanks for responding! Heading into my first pastorate and Wed, SunAM, SunPM services are expected. This has been a big help! - Michael S.

I went the other way, 8 weeks, and led it like a small group (covered our SOF) and it became VERY sticky. Folks who took the class were WAY more likely to stay in the church because they made long lasting and strong connections with about 10 others (kept my classes to about 12 folks). It also gave folks a chance to get to know me a little better going in. Beneficial for a growing church where I couldn't be close with everyone (200-260 ave weekly attendance).

Thank you, guys! I'm Thom's generation and a new hire at a church that has slowly declined and is full of boomers. I count two millennials, and one of them is my kid! I will have my board of trustees listen to your podcast.

When someone is super religious, that is a huge red flag that they are a terrible person. Not all Christians are bad, but the percentage is so high, I just much rather keep my distance.

Disappointment in the filthy behavior of it's leaders.

Thank you Dr. Moody for representing us so well!

Great job Dr. Moody

Always good information! I just want to add what I’m sure these fellows meant: PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! Ask the Holy Spirit for His leading before you leave. Praise GOD!

Blessings of Jesus, immorality, promiscuity, KGBT, prostitution, extra marital affairs, single mothers, living together, broken families, kids without known fathers, delinquent kids. drugs, drinking, gambling, theft, rapes, murders, shootings, mass shootings, vandalizing the shopping malls, banditry, interest and mortgages, drinking and exploitation of the poor and weak.