BSG made shaky-ass-cam into a frickin artform. It's the one thing you really had to get used to before you could truly enjoy the show.

@NightRunner417 Well, that and all end drama.

because if she lets the 1st officer decline orders he doesn’t like, then it falls to the 2nd officer who will have just witnesses you can decline orders and nothing bad happens to you, so the 2nd officer also declines the orders. then it goes to the 3rd officer who saw two senior officers getting away with declining orders, and it just keeps going down the line. by executing the 1st officer, the 2nd officer becomes compliant because he sees there are real consequences for insubordination and he doesn’t want to die

🤣

see also Frankie adams/bobby draper in the expanse. Farscape largely avoids this because nearly every supporting actor is Aussie/Kiwi

Or Vertiigo. Now that would be something. 🤣🤣

Hilarious that you would call anyone else an edge lord after writing that screed. The attack WAS a disaster, that’s why Pegasus plundered its civvie fleet for resources and personnel. It’s an extreme scenario, you have basically no earthly equivalent in modern western militaries to know that the crew would or would not take her into custody. You accuse other people of being naive or soft, but you exhibit extreme naivety in your faith that a crew would act in unison on principle and arrest a captain in that scenario, a lone ship with zero backup. Additionally, there ARE plenty of examples in human history of soldiers killing a subordinate to ‘motivate’ the rest. Junior high comment.

@ so, you are just saying that you do not understand human nature or how the military works. Nice There was no reason you shoot the XO. There was no good reason for the attack. She would have been removed because: 1. Real people seldom use murder as a way of achieving professional goals. (Look up the word professional before you tirade about general murder rate) 2. Real military has rules. Shooting someone for disagreeing is not acceptable. She would be arrested. 3. Telling non sensual things is not a strategy. Those things do all work in badly written video games and movies, because weak people who never faced danger think it is edgy to imagine this is reality. Hence, edgelord. . Your mom still brings you nuggies, huh?

He was committing mutiny by disobeying a legal order. People who get their knowledge from cinema think mutiny is only usurping power. It's not.

@ it was not a legal or military sound order. I am ashamed stupid like you can vote

...this sort of thing has literally happened numerous times throughout history...hell, throughout my lifetime. People tend to follow the leader, and if there isn't another 'leader' ready to draw their weapon on the officer who just shot their subordinate in the face, the crowd is going to go along with what she says, at least for the duration of the battle.

I disagree. She serves to show what could happen if a senior officer decided to essentially become God onboard their ship. Judge and Executioner. The colonies are gone, and she answers to no one but herself. Cain and her crew were shocked to run into Galactica, as they believed that they might actually be the last humans left in the universe. AI has destroyed almost all of humanity. If this were real, and almost all of humanity was wiped, who knows how the military would react in that situation.

You do realize that this is science fiction .

@@beccahaaby1007 No excuse for bad, uniformed writing.

Nah, she was written like that. She is mad. She ordered for the looting of civ ships and killed any that resisted.

@@Justin-ui5ti Yep. A terribly written character.

I understand the thought, but that is a misleading assumption. Take a look at Kitty Genovese, who was r*ped in broad daylight in a public street while a lot of people were watching. This is where we derive the bystander effect from in psychology. People understand that it is wrong and someone has to intervene. But its a rare trait to step up, enter conflict, call it out or even call for help (e.g. police). If people are not even acting in such a low-risk scenario (call the cops), why would they risk their lives in a mutiny which is one of the riskiest social deduction games: No one will play with their intentions visible to others. If you tell the wrong person that you are a mutineer, you will get court martialed and executed. Or simply executed, if you tell the hidden mutineers that you are loyal to the current command. But in addition to this: The bigger the group, the harder it is to know, if you end up in the majority or the minority. And since we have developed ways of fighting quite a bit, numbers are not everything: If you end up in the less competent group, the mistakes of your fellow mates might kill you fast. A coup often relies on orchestrated key actions. When was the last time that you saw groups of people following through with a structured plan that was not trained/given by drilled process instructions like how to make a burger at McDonalds? There is another layer to it: Take a look around in the economy. Since the boom of Covid, a lot of big companies are now laying off people in mass scales. Sometimes they hide it behind a big restructuring. These transformation processes happen everywhere in big companies right now and are basically tied to the goals of the CEOs. Make this company profitable. They dont know how to increase the income or get a bigger market share. They often dont know how the business model actually works: Hideo Kojima was the last guy on the board at Konami who was actually a software developer. Now its filled with business administration people. Blizzard is the same. Aside from videogame companies, you ll find this in other tech companies, logistics and a lot in hospitals. But if you dont know how the business model is done and what is an urgent thing to do, you dont want to touch a house of cards that you could ruin. Instead, you ll just reduce the costs which are there right now. And that always leads to rationalize / automate processes to fire people. You should take a look how these processes work: the CEO asks for a way of replacement and someone needs to assure with technological, law and other knowledge: this will work. Only then will the CEO allow it. Publicly you want to separate the connection of having fired a lot of people (which is why they always state the big companies name "Amazon let off 100k people" but never the one in charge. But when it comes to the earnings / winning: "Jeff Bezos increased the market share by 2%". Now the transformation process is similarly ruthless and existentially threatening as the mutiny in BSG: I dont care about you. I will fire you. I will take all of your basis for life (salary, therefore means to live and qualification because if you dont find a job in a while, you will have a harder time in the market). Yes, it is not running around with guns on a small ship. But you know that you will ruin people. You articulate that this is just capitalism and everyone needs to take care of themselves and see that they can maintain a life and all. You have less scarcity than on the Pegasus (BSG) which is space to live. While in life, it is available jobs, money and that. But the similarity is: People notice how their companies are run into the wall every day. There are a lot of bad choices by management. Solid employers are run down by bad top management decisions, not by the barista overfilling the cups. But the consequences hit the common folk. Have you ever seen people standing up? Fighting for the jobs against leadership? Another example is how easy Union busting is. If you have a need for an Union, it should be highly motivational to establish it. But people are waiting there like the hare sitting in front of a snake. My finest example is Edward Snowden. He did the right thing. Maybe one of the actual few heroes of our lifetime. And no one cares. Where is the fair process he wanted? Where are the people rallying up for his rights because he ensured other peoples rights? Seeing him getting no reaction whatsoever was just a confirmation that you can cut peoples lives hard and get away with everything.

Not necessary. It depends how in shock they are too.

@@Nmagg1776 Hell no... It would have been the DUTY of every officer there to instantly draw down on Cain and relieve her of command

Nope, you're in battle, mutiny would guarantee battle loss & your death, in the moment you would absolutely not question the leader. In history, there are accounts of leaders during battle having executed those out of line as a means to restore lost morale in a squad - the 'fear but follow' technique.

@Amcor09 Maybe you meant discipline? I doubt an execution would rise the morale, unless that person was a really big sob.

Admiral Cain was the highlight of BSG, after those three episodes is was mostly down hill.

Even if you interpret that to mean they could rebuild their air wing from nothing, not just replenish losses, they'd still be effectively defenseless while they rebuilt.

One thing over look is yes but not the actual people to man them without stripping from other vital areas

They'd need the raw materials to do that, and I think the onboard production facility is really meant more for "we are on an expeditionary campaign in a fleet environment with plenty of support assets and need to replace a fighter here and there", not "we are literally the only remaining military vessel and need to replace our entire air wing quick-like to keep up our guerilla attacks". Plus, as you touched on, you cannot manufacture experienced pilots in a factory.

@@wll1500 That's true, but Cain *did* lose her entire air wing here, and once we meet Pegasus again, they've replaced them.

@@gaiusbaltar8915 not entirely. Just most of it. And the entire ship is running massively under capacity, not just the air wing. Much of their crew are shanghaied civilians at that point.

Désolé que vous ayez été déçu, mais il n'y a rien à comprendre, il faut être dans le délire.

@@Shinonoiru la théorie disait vrai

Merci, ça fait plaisir!

Not to necro this, but wanted to answer your second question: Belzen was a Colonel and XO at the time. Fisk was a Lieutenant Colonel (still referred to as a Colonel), and was promoted to the full rank shortly after assuming the duties of XO. Supporting/secondary materials show that Cain was in command of Pegasus as a “prestige” position, but as a way to tuck her away

1: she fought her way out with many casualties. She's lucky to have a Mercury class. 2: Belzen is a Colonel. In BSG there are a mix of Army, Navy and AirForce ranks. Tigh is an XO and a Colonel so Belzen is a Colonel as well . Fisk is second officer and a Lt Colonel. 3. Admirals tend to captain their flagship in this universe. The admiral whose ship shut down against the Cylons is an example.

Deathstrike, Well concurrently, Adama had Starbuck in position to do the same to Cain, so....

Lloyd Bridges? Lmao now I’m picturing him sticking a hanky in one ear and pulling it out the other like in Hot Shots talking about how he lost half his skull to the Cylons in Korea 😂😂

To be fair, the Cylons reduced a population of many billions down to less than 100,000 with nukes. Her planet, almost everyone she ever knew was slaughtered. That tends to change a person. I think her portrayal was fantastic.

I still say the OG BSG is better

@@melina001a for dumbasses, sure

Yeah, but she can't brig everyone who defies her. Bullets, on the other hand, are plentiful.

@@TheArbieo and the intimidation is far more worse, of death here or possible death out there. Something something Stalingrade WW2 not one step back comrades....

Realistic? Are you kidding me? You don't think it's realistic for megalomaniacal officers to murder their subordinates in times of great pressure in combat? Do yourself a favour and look up what the Soviets did to their own people routinely in Stalingrad.

@@RenegadeShepTheSpacer just seems like a good way to encourage mutiny and a complete violation of military protocol. It wasn’t done on the heat of the moment it was cold and calculated. Very cartoon villain which is out of place in the tone of this show. We never get a feeling that the humans are as bad as the soviets until specifically the Pegasus shows up and for some reason this ship in particular is crewed entirely by hitlers

@@Quincy_Morris A violation of not only protocol, but also human rights. I agree with that, of course. But that isn't going to stop people from being led by fear. North Korea is a contemporary example of this in action. She's not cartoonish. This is a very plausible scenario - a military leader, who loses absolutely everything during the genocide of her species, snaps and becomes a cold-blooded, ruthless warlord. That isn't far-fetched whatsoever and fits in with the tone of the show perfectly, given how dark and gritty it is.

Doesn't feel too good to be on the receiving end, does it?!