Im game Bill

I have the wanderer box v2 ultimate and love it, but have considered stepping up to the v3 pro

Just going through the update. Why did you recommend she download/install EQMOD? She doesn't have a SW mount, or one of the other supported brands. OK, the 6AIII on that 71 is going to produce terrible stars out past about an APS-C sized image. I don't remember if she's yet gotten PixInsight, but that with the RC Astro tools will be pretty much essential for her processing if she wants round(ish) stars. This also leads to issues during image analysis. When using NINA's hocus focus / aberration inspector, you might want to constrain the focus box. Those misshapen stars will impact the results, and possibly mislead you into believing you have back focus / tilt issues. Regarding the 132 / 68III combo, that will (or at least should) produce good stars from edge to edge. One thing to note. It will be nearly impossible to execute any kind of analysis using NINA without some kind of electronic focuser. The tools require the autofocus routine to be able to monitor the star shapes at known focuser positions, and that the steps are measured and accurate. You can't wing it by manually adjusting the focuser some amount. In lieu of some kind of electronic focuser, you can use the WO provided Bahtinov mask (assuming they still have them in the lens caps) and the pattern inspector in NINA to get very good focus on a star in the center of the frame. Then, you can use ASTAP to diagnose the tilt per frame. I'd start with the recommended back focus distance, which _should_ be close, and then using ASTAP start to adjust any tilt. ZWO doesn't make it easy, though, since the tilt adjustment screws are on the scope side of the tilt plates. Meaning, if she's bolting the camera to the wheel, she'll have to take that apart, make adjustments, put it back together, manually focus and take another test image. It's actually one of the reasons I went with Player One. They put the tilt adjustment screws on the camera side, so you can leave everything bolted together and adjust on the fly. I realize she's just spent a ton of money, but has she considered something like a photon cage or octopi for managing tilt? Might be worth a look. Edit: all of the above really is something she should concern herself AFTER she's got the equipment out under the stars and has gotten first light. Chasing perfect star shapes can, and WILL, lead her down a rabbit hole where she spends more time under the stars tinkering with things rather than imaging. Have her start simple. Connect the camera to the PC / ASIAir. Make sure the camera is recognized. Make sure the cooler works and gets her to a desired temperature. Take biases at some gain/offset/temp. Do this BEFORE ever connecting the camera to a filter wheel or scope. Stack those biases into a master so she can get some experience with the software. Maybe start a dark library as well (30, 60, 90, 120, 300 second exposures). Once that's done, and she's comfortable with the process and tools, THEN connect the camera to the scope. Now, connect up that flat panel and take some flats. All of this will get her familiarized with things BEFORE she ever sets up under the stars.

Refractors are heavy? My LX200 begs to differ, lol. Mirrors will always outweigh thinner lenses.

OK

Which reminds me, does she have WiFi to remote control the scopes or is she planning on sitting outside with them?

I see no mention of filters. Did she get a filter drawer or filter wheel? Depending on her skies she will at least need LRGB and then narrowband for the mono camera and dual band for the OSC. Since she has such a big camera sensor she will need 2" filters. I would recommend that you both review the KZbin videos from Patriot Astro. He has a clean, disciplined approach to setting up the NINA mini computer. I don't know what kind of memory her mini computer uses for Windows. Given the file sizes, she may need to move Windows to the SSD, otherwise it will take several minutes to transfer each file from the default memory because it's really slow. Although the mini computer has a touch screen it may be too small to see what is going on. It is easier to just setup a remote desktop, and after watching Starfront videos, the Chrome Remote Desktop is the easiest I've seen. Works better than Microsoft's Remote Desktop. I wish her and you all very good luck in getting the scopes set up. Not for the faint of heart. Especially since she will need to set up every night. I am in that situation and I have the ability to grab my tripod, plop in the mount (AM3) and attach the scope (60mm F/5) and plug in three cables and I am ready to polar align. I have used the same location and know the patio stones to use and aim my mount at the fence post to get 1 deg of az to celestial north.

Also I have always used an External drive to USB 3.0 or USB-C for image storage. I personally use Lacie 5TB rugged HDD. You can get a faster SSD version but I have not really noticed an issue slowing me down since Nina starts next image while saving current image. I do run longer exposure times (currently 4 minutes, understand the trade-off). Watch out on the Mini Computers I thing my Mele system definitely runs a lot slower imaging with Nina than my Eagle3

Bill just a comment on the 6200 (I have the Mono on my EdgeHD11). I suggest (and what I do) using at least 2x2 binning.. My first light was 1x1 and file size, file transfer time, and just the blotchy stars was a bother especially until I get processing skills and targets that really need the 1x1 binning. I have not really noticed a down-size to the 2x2 binning at least with my current processing skills. I bought the 6200 to more future proof and allow me to avoid yet another camera purchase in just a few years. I have an ASI071 on my WO 81" system and will eventually upgrade it not sure if I will do the 6200 color for it, but interesting thought.

I also assume she’s going to have these scopes semipermanent deployed, it would be too much to setup and polar align both scopes every time she wanted to image.

Ditto on the previous comments on focusing. Probably one of the hardest things to get running reliably.

It’s also interesting she picked two completely different imaging approaches, OSC and mono. Again you’re doubling the learning curve and equipment needed. I see no guider, the Losmandy may not need it (I don’t know), but a SWG will. Also the sticker shock of the file sizes may or may not intimidate her since she is a professional photographer. However the processing of the images might surprise her, especially stacking those images. You didn’t mention what kind of skies she has. If they are Bortle 7 or higher the exposure times will increase significantly. I also don’t see any processing software in the list. There is a learning curve with that as well. The NINA approach is more open to different manufacturers whereas the ASIair will limit the ecosystem to ZWO cameras only but that doesn’t seem to be an issue. I don’t think I would be able to join your team, but for some insight into a beginner’s journey I have been through all the silly questions and have a reasonable understanding on setting up a rig to the point I could easily send my current telescope to Starfront if I wanted to do that. I hope I can follow your progress this is an interesting project.

I started this hobby about 18 months ago. The first thing that struck me was the ASIair and NINA. You can’t use NINA with an ASIair, she will need a separate windows based mini computer. I assume she is configuring two platforms but you are doubling the learning curve. I have to watch the rest of your video in case I’m missing something.

Wow... I thought I jumped in the deep end. I could help out as I have had some growing pains as well, and I also have a background in photography. I saw no mention of guiding equipment.

Someone who's never done AP before picks up 2 complete rigs. Talk about jumping right into the deep end of the pool! I didn't see any mention of guiding equipment or any electronic focusers. Were these items purchased and just left off the list? How does she plan to power these rigs? Mains from her home, or is she traveling to dark sites and using batteries? I assume she's got all the cables/adapters/plugs necessary? I'm also going to assume the WO132 is going to be mounted on the GM8 with the 6200MM and EFW. I'm also going to assume that rig will use the mini-PC and NINA due to the Pegasus wheel. The flatteners... did she pick up the reducer/flattener or the straight up 1x flatteners for the scopes? The 71 will not get well-corrected stars to the edge of that 6200. She's also going to have to deal with tilt with such large sensors. Anyway... those are not concerns for a first light scenario. I don't have hands-on experience with the majority of the items in her list. I do own a WO GT81 IV with the 6AIII reducer/flattener, which is close enough. I'll offer whatever help I can, but not sure how much time I can dedicate to this.

Nice idea , good luck with it 🤞🏻 I think the term 'expert' might put people off though, I love helping new astro imagers but deffo not an expert 😊

hi i have nina1.10 if i update it will i lose my profile thanks

Looks cool!

Thanks for the idea! It works with EQMOD also.

Bill, Thank you for your reply about the 'Focuser Movement' of 23mm. Now the claim is that the REDCAT51 does not have a back focus, this is sort of true, but not entirely correct. We need to understand how the Petzval telescope works when it comes to focusing. The fixed lens in the telescope will move as a complete unit of 23mm in total when moving the focuser. The 55mm back focus needs to be taken into consideration and should be adhered to when adding equipment to the front of the telescope. For instance if you just connected the ASi camera to the front of the telescope you will not be able to get focus. Spacers will have to be used to move the camera back far enough to get focus. You mentioned the telescope focuser has about 23mm of movement. So if we added just an ASI camera and the appropriate spacers to add up to 55mm, then moved the focuser to position 11.5mm from its zero position, the camera will be in focus, at this position. There will be 11.5mm each side of the focal plain. This meaning you have 11.5 in front and 11.5mm behind the camera sensor to get that perfect focus. Now, when it comes to 'The REDCAT51 does not have back focus' Which it does, it just means there is some free space in front and behind that allows the user to be slightly out with 55mm back focus and still get focus. If for instance another spacer 10mm was added to get a value of 65mm back focus, then technically we would be able to get perfect focus in absolutely perfect conditions which don't exist, we would have 1.5mm to try and achieve focus. So if we added an extra 5mm adding to the 55mm back focus to 60mm then we would still be able to get focus having 5.5mm left to achieve it. This would also apply if we only had 50mm and not the 55mm back focus. The 55mm back focus needs to be taken into consideration and should be adhered to if possible when adding equipment to the front of the telescope. So I did some calculations to see if it is possible to add the rotator, and this is what I came up with. You mentioned that the Back Focus is 55mm, so this is a good start and all we have to play with. Camera ASI2600 has a 12.5mm Tilt adapter removed. Filter Wheel 20mm Attached to the camera. Rotator 11.8mm Note: this is the correct value as the body is 10mm, but the center wheel protrudes by 1.8mm giving 11.8mm. Total ----------------- 44.3mm So far we are well in the ball part of 55mm. Spacer/Adapter #1 5mm This is to connect the Rotator to the filter wheel. Spacer/Adapter #2 6mm This is to connect the Rotator to the telescope. Total ----------------- 55mm Bingo you are right on target of 55mm. Well, 55.3mm, close enough. If one wants to take into consideration filter offset, then we need to add 0.5mm. So, Spacer/Adapter #2 would be need to be 6.5mm OR, this can be added to Spacer/Adapter #1 making it 5.5mm Total ----------------- 55.8mm Which will work just fine. So when you move the focuser in or out, all that is happening is you are are moving the distance to the camera sensor back to 55mm to get focus. This is where 55mm back-focus comes from with the Petzval design. Something for you to think about, if you ever wanted to go in this direction connecting the Rotator. If you ever wanted to have customized adapters made then goto the following link. I have had all my Adapter/Spacers made up there. They are reliable and fast. rafcamera.com/ All the best for your remote site new astro adventure.

Great plugin, I use it all the time. saved my telescope mount crash twice all ready.

Bill, what is the max amount of movement in mm does the focuser have. Using the scale on the side of the telescope.

Very handy bit of information - Good one Bill.

I don’t have a lot of time to follow the multitude of discussions on NINA discord so this is very interesting to me!

Made the same decision. CFO may kill me

You do understand that Beta build and "nightly" builds are Experimental and have not been tested. You are the guineapig, so you can find issues and report them. If you want stability, use the last build that was "Shipped".

Bill thanks a bunch for an overview of Target Scheduler and the Moon interactions. Target Scheduler is next on my list of things to work on. Currently working on finishing touches on a more automated sequencer file with powerup, bias, darks, flats, and imaging, powerdown and various safety checks while I have a rainy week of course on new moon time-frame too.

Lots of great info here. Thanks!! I started astrophotography just under a year ago with a Zenithstar 61 and a Nikon D5000 unmodified DSLR. I finally got tired of having to crop a ton to have acceptable stars and finally decided to spend the money on the Flat61A. Waiting for it to arrive currently but I can’t wait to try it out once I get it.

In watching Starfront's channel, don't they manage cables when they mount your scope?

When I sent my rig down, I did not include a UPS with it. I had purchased a UPS because I was getting power fluctuations which cause my ethernet control power switch go back to a default configuration. I also had another issue a power spike which reset my eagle and all my NINA sequencer to be deleted. I have had the UPS for a couple weeks with no power issues at all.

All these links in your video description but no link to the WandererBox Pro V3 ?

Nice video. I am driving my rig from West Virginia to SFO in January. I note you have a UPS. Are you concerned about stability of power?

I just got a Pegasus Astro Falcon rotator. I love it. Also no real back focus problem on the Askar FRA400. I just got the 294mm Pro, yes it has it's problems and I would have gone for the 2600mm but the extra $$ weren't there at the time, Now that I'm using it I do like it even with the amp glow and the bin1 mode is awesome. I miss the wider field of view from the 2600 though. I consider my rig complete now FRA400 w/.7 reducer (285mm f3.9), AM5, 294mm Pro, 7 filter wheel w/Antlia 36mm 3nm filters, ZWO EAF, Falcon 2 rotator, Giotto and Alto, Pegasus Power Box, Mele Quieter 3. I just got an EdgeHD 9.25 and getting that set up has been... a pain. I love the images though. Clear skies!

Hi Bill, very nice to follow you on your journey as I am on a similar path. Getting my FRA400 rig ready to go remote. You'll like Austin. Lots of live music down on 6th street. Don't forget the bats under the bridge.

Very cool! Hope you do a video when you have it nailed in :)

I've never used a rotator and use both of the cameras you mention. Logically, not sure why you would need a rotator on a wide field scope. Also, I shoot my calibration frames once per season because my field of view orientation does not change. This gives me a great result. If you had a rotator, you would need to shoot calibration frames each time you used the scope. Way too much work - at least for me.

looking good, getting it all dialed in!

Hi Bill, just curious, are you only moving the Redcat down to Starfront?

Let's talk calibration. Your light frame, i.e. the one you take under the stars of whatever target you're shooting, contains a number of unwanted things. Sensor noise. Optical defects. Dark current. Calibration removes those unwanted things. The darks remove additive things like dark current / amp glow. The flats remove multiplicative things like light falloff. But here's the thing - those flats are just lights, so they contain the same type of additive issues like dark current and amp glow. Just like you subtract a dark from a light, so too do you subtract a dark from a flat. Wait a second... so then what is this bias and why do people use them to calibrate a flat? Well, a bias is just an extremely short dark, typically taken at the shortest exposure your camera can do. For cameras like the 294 or 2600, that is 32 microseconds. So why do people use a bias in lieu of a dark to calibrate a flat? Simple: it's convenient. Flats (which remember are just lights) are usually pretty short exposures. We're talking a few tenths of a second or less, especially if you're taking sky flats using our own sun as your light source. Because it is so short, there really isn't time for all of those additive things to have any real impact on the data. The only additive thing we really need to remove is the offset, which is precisely what the bias frame represents. Thus, calibrating a flat with a bias is "good enough". In most cases. The sensor in the 294 is quirky. Whereas quite a few other cameras behave in a predictable, easily modeled linear fashion, the 294 doesn't at extremely short exposures. In fact, it's not until you've gotten to exposure times of around 2 to 3 seconds that the camera behaves properly. This means there's plenty of time for those nasty additive elements to play havoc, and thus you must take matching darks to subtract them all out. Now, there are plenty of people who will swear up, down, left and center that they can take short flats and use biases with their 294. Maybe they got a good sample of the sensor. Maybe they're not getting the best calibration they can and deal with it during image processing. Maybe they just don't know. There are hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of pages of debate on the astrophotography fora about using darks or biases to calibrate flats. My stance on the matter is that using matching darks with your flats is the best way to calibrate, regardless of which sensor you're using. Having written that, with my Poseidon-M Pro (same IMX571 sensor in the 2600MM Pro), I use biases to calibrate my flats and don't even bother taking darks for my lights, instead using the same biases to calibrate them. The old adage do as I say, not as I do is certainly apropos :).

Hi Bill, great video. I recently acquired this one and I am wondering how you attached the rotator to the filter wheel. I was thinking about a M54 male-male thread, but I don't see any gap in your setup. How did you do it?

I've tried to get the Question Mark with multiple cameras and every time something fails. I think it's cursed :) Super dim target is my guess. I like reds as well!

Very much like me. Less than 2 years in Astrophotography and I started with an Edge HD8, though with a HyperStar V3. I just purchased a RedCat 51 APO for wide field. Shot 2 targets, so far with the 51 and have resolved to keep my Edge configured for F7 for narrow field and planetary (which I have not done much). The HyperStar is an amazing piece of equipment but I dislike the tedium of manually refocusing the Edge every time I would change the configuration from HyperStar to F7. Now I do not have to do either since the Cat handles wide field better. Incidentally, having the cable(s) coming from the front mounted camera is not really an issue. I just keep the two cables together and pass them in front of the aperture together. I enjoyed your video.

I had forgotten why I never bothered getting into astronomy, thanx for reminding me why lol.

Cosmic photons script for star reduction is awesome. Yup. More integration time equals better results. My early attempts were 7-12 hours and I got pretty good results, but now doing 20 plus hours it's at a whole 'nother level. Also my processing skills have grown over the past year and along with the Adam Block courses I have a much better understanding of what I want to do with the image to get the most out of it. Best of luck and clear skies!

Great observation, Bill. Long integration times can indeed present significant challenges in astrophotography. I've adopted a similar approach in my own work. While I don’t share my findings on astrophotography forums every single night, each time I do upload my images, it’s incredibly gratifying to behold the stunning results of those countless nights spent gazing at the cosmos. The beauty of the final output makes all the patience and effort truly worthwhile.

I came to this realization this past summer as well! More integration is always better. Matter of fact even with the same target! Excellent job! Keep it coming!!

great image. I was under the impression it was a very faint target :)

Yes. Just remember that a NAS is not a back up. Target selection for me depends on what is up and for how long. I usually just do one target in an evening and do 300sec subs x 10 for each filter so I get the same amount of subs per (usually 40) filter. I also do wbpp after each night just to see how things are progressing. I've also been very happy with the Adam Block courses on Pixinsight. Look into the Narrow Band Color Mapper. That is the bomb. I have been getting very good results with it.

Hey Bill, Starfront just got my rig set up and aligned last night! I couldn't be more excited. A couple of suggestions. I was unfamiliar with how exactly to connect to my rig on a remote network. I read all of the guides, and thought I understood, but nope. Even though I had Windows Remote Desktop and Chrome Remote Desktop (as they suggest) on the mini-pc I sent, I hadn't really thought through how it would work (e.g. I had not set Chrome Remote Desktop to auto-start on my rig) and there was some initial confusion on my part (and a couple of assumptions made by the techs on Starfront's end) getting connected. Took me a couple of hours and a number of back and forth exchanges with the techs via Discord until I managed to get connected. I think I have it figured out now, but frankly I haven't yet disconnected and reconnected, so I am not sure! ;-) I would go for overkill as far as the ways you could remote in, i.e. Chrome Remote, AnyDesk, OpenVPN, Remote Desktop, etc. Once you get up and going, you can always delete what you don't need but having the rig set up by Starfront faster than expected, getting the go ahead to log in, and not being able to do so is not something you want to have happen to you. I am having a couple of other issues that need tweaking by the guys down there, so did not get to image last night, but guiding with my AM5 on their pier was at .10-.15 much of the time I was getting settled in even thought he polar alignment wasn't that great. I have very high hopes. Good luck!

This rig looks great! Excited to see the photos you get with it!