GOD hears all things Sees all things Knows ALL THINGS. Math 10:26 Do not fear them. What is hidden will be uncovered. Take your pain, false accusations, shaming to JESUS. Abusers never admit they are wrong.

I believe the guests have confused believing in the trinity with accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. You can reject the trinity and be a Christian. The trinity was created by men 400 years after Jesus' ascension. It's not in the scriptures. Jesus was Jewish. Jewish people believe in monotheism. This never changed. Jesus didn't bring another doctrine. One God, and one mediator, Jesus Christ. Mark 12:29

Psalm 105 and 1 Chronicles 16: “do not touch the Lords anointed”; another classic and much misquoted verse against the plebs that question the untouchables.

Oh, and it definitely looks as though The Southern Baptist Convention has something to do with MBC's pastor being replaced by one of their own to get a piece of the pie(if not the whole pie) of the profits of tithe coming in from a 13,500 person congregation. Apparently, the Southern Baptist Convention doesn't have enough money to misuse? They probably eventually won't even have David Platt's back after using him. The only time I saw Jesus display anger, which was righteousness, was when greedy wicked men took advantage of the need of people to cry out to God and hear His wisdom, receive forgiveness, and walk in freedom and these wicked men turned vulnerable places like that into dens of theives. #goandmakedisciples #nomoredens And what really happened to their previous pastor? 💔 To the wolves out there and anyone else who would listen: Is there a lack of the fear of the LORD, or what? Y'all know He's coming back, right? If you're a tare, which was planted by the enemy, and y'all taking advantage of the systems of "church" and stealing, abusing, misusing, deceiving, acting like y'all are Christian and "men of God" and you aren't? Jesus is coming, and if y'all don't humble yourself right now, you will have to pay for your sin for all eternity. I was a hypocrite once, too. But the goodness of God led me to repentance, and He paid for my filthy sin by His precious blood. Stop planting churches and Go make disciples. Too many people are getting hurt. David Pratt kept wanting more churches for more gain. Such manipulation. He's one of many. It's ok to preach the Gospel to "preachers". Their fruit is poison. And man, the poison is lethal and seems to multiply. By all means, please stop calling evil good and good evil; and then putting Jesus' name to it. The blasphemy is making my ears bleed. Don't bare false witness is the 9th commandment. Having no other gods before Him is the 1st.

I did watch the documentary, both parts. I heard about this from Church Disrupted, possibly Mike Winger, but pretty sure Church Disrupted a few days after the documentary was released. A guy who is asking what Church funds are being used for was at MBC was also arrested wrongfully. Anyway, part of why the documentary was so long, in my opinion, (as l and others left our church/cult because of unrepentant verbal and spiritual abuse, see Why We Left LOTW on YT) is that they are trying to get the information out and documented in the same timeline they went through it. It was fuzzy at first and became more and more clear, but then the issues were much deeper than they were initially concerned with. At first, it was Critical Race Theory being subtly preached. Confusing conviction and control from the pulpet they trust. The congregation is already vulnerable due to the mysterious inconclusive loss of their beloved pastor. Then, positions and ministries are being replaced. It was inconceivable that millions of dollars are being funneled to a denomination they can not possibly be associated with unless by secret. The knowing of this simultaneously would be incomprehensible as the unimaginable is happening to the congregation as a whole, whether they recognize the abuse and misuse or not. So, making this documentary was timelined this way, probably because 1)getting the information out and clarified as they went through it. 2)to warn those who stay at MBC. 3)for actual accountability to the leadership who doesn't actually have accountability 4)to warn the world so that nobody else gets hurt and others can recognize the deception and patterns and what it's like to be slowly boiled alive. The hope is that a summary will be made. The hope is to be able help others with our stories. Possibly more interviews and further clarity with those who already shared and with others who left. One already wishes the documentary could have gone out sooner, but the making of it was a miracle in itself. And those people, whom you so sensitively pointed out, Naomi, need so much prayer and community from free believers. The loss seems to domino alongside the freedom from the abuse and deception. We don't really know how we need support. How we can afford it in time, financial, or energy. To make the video was a labor of love and even healing and therapy in itself. The journey isn't over. Not even close. It's kinda just beginning. And our faithful Good Shepherd will lead His sheep to green pastures and still waters and restore their souls. He is quite resourceful. His ways are not our ways. But oh, this is where the Body is growing in love for the LORD and His body, and not for men and their kingdoms.

I'm Salvador Cordova, and I was in the documentary. Thank you for raising awareness of the documentary and our testimonies. Court records indicate on October 3, 2021 I was confronted by MBC armed security while I sat QUIETLY in my chair in the sanctuary during a worship service. I was then threatened with arrest and jail (in 5 counties) if I ever set foot on MBC properties. No reason was given at the time they made those threats against me, and they still haven't been forthcoming as to why they did that to me. I suspect it was the fact I made 2 youtube videos highlighting that Platt's associate Mike Kelsey said "It's difficult for me not to torch all white people, particularly white evangelicals and Christians" and then I mocked them in another video (nicknamed the "Platt Splatt") for Platt telling the congregation that MBC was prospering under Platt when in fact it took him only 4 years to wipe out half of the congregation which took 55 years to build from 25 people to 13,500 people. Clips from both the aforementioned videos were shown in the documentary. The leadership then sent out emails to the entire congregation that demeaned me with all sorts of false insinuations. They did that too to Laura Burke, a Christian wife, mother, and missionary after they threatened her with arrest and conviction on the grounds of trespassing (which thankfully the judge dismissed!). As far as a systemic problem as to why this happened, I think the issue is money and power are the root of the problem. McLean Bible Church (MBC) has assets of 150 million dollars in property, used to be politically influential on the President, Sentate, Cabinet, Diplomats. MBC used to have an inflation-adjusted revenue stream of 42 million a year at its peak in 2013 prior to David Platt's arrival. With that amount of power and money at stake, this isn't a matter of some sort of communication breakdown and trying to get parties to cooperate and be nice to each other. The New Testament had a mix of megachurches (like the one in Jerusalem after 3,000 were converted in one day), and house churches. Small house churches with small budgets can perhaps reduce the problem. In the era of the internet, house churches can tune in to free-of-charge high-quality messages, testimonies, information, and sermons every time they conduct church. In small house churches, there is less need to try to recruit a pastor that asks for $10,000 to 20,000 per sermon (as is estimated for David Platt based on published speaking fees and estimated half-million dollar annual compensation package). Large amounts of donations were made for an intended purpose prior to the Platt era. As I saw hundreds of millions then being plundered for purposes outside the original reasons for accepting donations, it created in me resolve to set the record straight. David Platt demonized from the pulpit the women who were part of the founding families of the church when it began with only 25 members. To correct that injustice and to stand up for these honorable elderly women gave me the resolve to try to set the record straight. Thanks again for bringing attention to the documentary and giving us a chance to tell our story and rebuke Platt publicly according to 1 Tim 5:20 and Prov 27:5 where it says, "open rebuke is better than secret love".

Luke 12: 54-57 , Daniel 12:3 ,4. Signs of times in biology physiology delved into body and cell functions, therefore proving God's omnipotent blueprint design, fearfully and wonderfully made. Recently, 2 women on podcast, very bible studied, " Arise pioneers in this new season Uncharted, God's double wind with it. I've prayed years with gathered scripture including the 2 above, for the breakthroughs time like Jeremiah- shake, pull down, Then rebuild. Romans 8:28 All things are coming together ( for God's Glory, whom has Spoken> see how I have created stable things ' for mankind." II Peter all of chpt 1, Ephesians 3:10, 4: 14-17

For years I commented to well known pastors and biblical people that God's kingdom work is not limited isolated to people that only attend to 'their church.' Bible is blueprint of 'going out many places' like apostles and disciples did'. When truly gathering God's heart, "Peter, if you Love me, feed my sheep and lambs" Because of the outpouring of recent sorrows and a few pastors chiming in, there's much needed sunestemi bold to come to forefront. 2 other woman podcast> Clarion call, "God's new season uncharted, Arise"

Amen. 2 women on a podcast about 2 weeks ago, relate that uncharted season God's double wind with it; "arise pioneers" > uncharted areas. 😊

Christians must do what the Bible says, not listen to wicked people who don't know what they are doing! Read 2 Tim 3:1-5

Video title maybe should have let us know that this was a response to a documentary. I still don’t know what the issue is beyond the fact that they didn’t have a line by line budget.

Gospel Coalition is Calvinist. Calvinism holds to divine sovereignty. Divine sovereignty holds that whatsoever comes to pass is by God's divine decree. Therefore, whatever happened at McLean Bible Church happened because God decreed it to happen.

I'm trying to recover from this, from a pastor and his wife - who also runs an online 'ministry' here in the UK, allegedly to teach others about spiritual truths and the deeper things of God. I had a horrible email from her, telling outright untruths, and making some very definite wrong judgments of me. This seemingly sweet, softly spoken, very 'mature' and 'loving' lady gained my trust when I was extremely lonely, isolated and very vulnerable, and I believe she used a great deal of manipulation to influence me. I have no-one to go to; they are accountable to no one, and are held in very high esteem, both in certain 'christian' circles, and in some secular fields, in film and TV in the UK, and possibly elsewhere. I would urge anyone reading this to please try to be extremely careful re churches and Ministries. Scrutinise the leaders of such, and don't be fooled by appearances of love, concern etc. It's probably fake, and nothing more than a lure, to draw you into their own brand of deception, which could be devastating. God has warned me that this particular woman is very dangerous, and I have managed to make no further contact with her for nearly 2 months. It's high time to be as wise as serpents...

A couple of suggestions: 1. in choosing a menu, please consider food allergies such as gluten. 2. Since you're not offering a typical church experience, maybe offer a couple of carefully vetted churches in the area the people could attend if they are staying for the weekend and desire a church experience.

I'm so excited about these presenters!

This is so far from where I live. It sounds wonderful. I wish I could attend!

God bless you my Brothers and Sisters for the great work of exposing the lies.l myeslf been in the message for 40years.As years went by l saw the all the lies that was going.As an Evangelist the information l get from your'll is great help to reach to others who are in this cult.Thank you and God bless you

Thank you both for sharing so openly. I grew up in this, the WB cult and experienced what you both are talking about. Still mentally healing even with being out 30yrs ago. For 10yrs I was mentally ill. Renewing my mind and believing the truth I found as truth and not a deception of the enemy is what's been the most difficult.

The really sad thing is that love bombing is a counterfeit. The church should be pouring out love to those coming through the doors. But if the culture of a church is talk sweet to get you in the doors but treat you horribly once you are a member is not OK. There should be some dialogue about what’s good and healthy and what’s toxic and not.

Great advice.

Proud of you nephew, you still have my support because you helped to save me from the cult, love you, great job, Naomi and Charles❤

Thank you Charles, I have learned to know you through leaving the massage podcasts. I am an ex-branhamite and through your experiences and exposing of this, I started my healing journey, I didn't even realized that I needed healing......LOL Thank you for being the humble man you are. I left in my early 20's and I am going to be 50 in January. God Bless you and your family. Blessings from South Africa 🫶

I really hope this becomes a movement out of the hyper charismatic trendy churches. Seems like majority of churches nowadays falls under that category. One of my sisters group is full steam ahead into it and yes, it gets lonely some time but thank God for my home church and pastor. I feel like the Lord is taking me back into a season of quiet time with Him.. Praying and soaking in His word. With no constant voices of hyper charismatic Christianese. I feel myself going into an unhealthy place and I know it’s wrong. So back I go into my secret closet with Jesus! I’m looking forward to it 😊 Qq: what are people’s thoughts on Jesus Image church? They’re like the modern/ trendy version of Benny hinn ministries. The pastor and wife is hinns daughter. So much of what Nakita is what I’m hearing and discerning from my own sister. We were so close but this has distance us. When she said these groups feel like they are a level higher than other believers is so accurate. All of this to say again- I’m taking a step back from that group.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the gospel presentation for children ages 5-12. My church wants to participate with a national group that takes biblical "classes" to our local elementary school weekly. As I'm looking over the material available to me, I have concerns. Every lesson talks about the child's sinfulness and Jesus' death. Of course his death, burial, and resurrection are CORE to our understanding of salvation, however having taught 5-7 year olds before, their understanding isn't where I think all of them can tolerate being told every single week how they're sinners and Jesus died because of their sin. Jesus blessed the children brought to him and the Bible tells us that children are innocent and special to him. What I don't want to happen is that in 5-10 years, those same kids think we trauma-bonded with them in these classes because there can be no deviation in the material. I can't "read the room" and focus on certain aspects. I'll never forget a little 6 year old boy in my AWANA Sparks class panicking about "everyone dies" and becoming upset about his mom dying one day. My daughter, who's finishing her BS in Psychology" pointed out trauma bonding just when I gave her a brief overview of what is expected. Could something like this fall under the umbrella of Spiritual Abuse? I don't want to be fearful, but neither do I want to contribute to authority abuse. Am I just way too sensitive about the matter? No one else seems concerned.

Just wondering if you all believe in once saved always saved?

Great discussion. As someone who is currently dealing with the ramifications of spiritual abuse and taking steps to confront the abuser, this book has been extremely helpful. As for the term spiritual abuse, my mother described it to me in the late 70’s after discussing a family issue with our pastor, who happened to be a seminary professor.

The love of money .......

It breaks my heart that people were so cruel to Charles when he left his former church.

AH the part about being as loud about the truth as you were about the deception was so good! 👏🏼👏🏼 great convo!

My daughter is attending a college campus that has a church right on campus. It is called H2O church, and they have church plants mostly in Ohio. They appear to have a solid statement of faith and open communication with parents.

Loss of community is more than just painful. It's like losong part of who you are....like losing several limbs.

This is a very important discussion to have. I didn't know that I would realize yet another avanue that the cult I left last year would be using. Wayne State College in North West Nebraska needs the gospel and disciples of Christ there. Truly, there are so many toxic world views influencing these young learners. There are also students from all over the world who attend this college, as I'm sure is the case of many colleges. It's lonely to be so far from home. You want to belong to something close like a family. I just warn: please don't ride in the church van and go to Light of the World Gospel Ministries. The Northern Irish "pastor" is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I know there are sincere followers who probably love the Lord, but they do not recognize the wolf under the wool. He recognizes vulnerabilities and takes advantage of them. Many who attend here do not have fathers. The deception and love bombing is so effective that even some councilors can't, or don't want, to see the red flags of spiritual abuse and manipulation. But many have visited and did not stay because they could see there was something wrong; and many have left battered. Lord help healthy relationships in our colleges develop. Thank You for warning us and showing us what is from You and what is deception. Thank You for being our Helper. In Jesus name.

Thank you for taking the time to do this discussion, I work with a major missions org and do work with college students in California and it’s so tough engaging students since they are so hesitant to talk about God let alone want to join our group or other healthy Christian ministries on campus. Many students get bombarded with many cult groups and just put up their defenses up right away when we approach them. It’s also tough trying to explain when cult groups pop up on campuses and they don’t have any theological beliefs they are too “out there” and outside of the Bible - like what you see in Mormonism or Jehovah’s witnesses. For students they don’t see a difference and go with these groups and learn the hard way.

THANK YOU CHARLES AND JOHN BECAUSE OF YOU GOD SHOWED ME THE PATH TO GUIDE ME TO THE TRUTH OF THE FALSE MESSAGE AND IT'S PROPHET SO I COULD COME OUT AND FIND JESUS CHRIST AS MY SAVOR THANK YOU SO MUCH GOD BLESS

Naomi: please, bring Charles back. God bless you both !!

Yes, this things is killing people !!!! My sister is commiting suicide in age of 24, my boyfriend who was kicked out from that wof/nar cult is killing himself with drugs and alcohol, I am suicidal last 26 years till today. YES, THIS THING IS KILLING PEOPLE, THIS IS DEVIL´S RELIGION.

The Catholic church never change their past crimes against the Jews.

Charles and John Collins are HUGE blessing to the Body of Christ. They are the REAL deal , love them and bless them for everything they do to help people, including me as well. Bless you

Love Charles ❤❤❤

This was an amazing testimony. Glory to God for delivering this man from deception into the light of Christ .

He went through so much trauma!! Having to reconcile the damage the cult is causing in people's lives while thinking your "church" knows the gospel is quite traumatic!

Thank you both for such a great presentation! Charles always gives honest and excellent info!

Very touching and thought-provoking interview.

Thanks for doing this. Love Charles!

I came out of IHOPKC. In describing my emotions upon realizing Bickle was a complete fraud and serial sexual abuser, I would often write “horrified”, “unsettled”, or “deeply disturbing” in my journal. I think Charles is the only other person who has articulated the word “horror” that I’ve listened to to describe the sense of losing community and a sense of faith in what one once believed in.

Reverend Charles is the most humble men I know. Only God can turn someone heart into this kind of humility. As an ex branhamist he said it like it is The whole thing was a HOAX, PLAGIARISM, FALSE PROPHECIES AND SO ON. keep up the good work Reverend Charles.

Take heart Charles that you will be helping far more people now with the work you do with John. Im 4 months out of a "charismatic cult" in Australia, and if not for your channel i would not have had certainty that what i was in was so wrong. Thank you for being so courageous in telling your story and exposing the history. Its invaluable. It will be helping people. Trust that. God will use it all for good according to His will. Really appreciated you sharing your story 🙂

Really good point. What's the cash value of someone *thinking* that God has a message for someone else?

Wow thank you Naomi and Charles for this episode. Naomi, you're such a skilled interviewer, and you asked Charles the questions with sensitivity and grace. Charles, thank you so much for your vulnerability and honesty, and thank you for bearing fruit in keeping with repentance. All glory to God for bringing you both into the light of Jesus Christ.

Excelente conversation - Charles used description of forming cult very well - leader is not anymore servant with love aproaching but wolf with his agenda