I play all sides of commander, from cedh-high powered-mid-precon level. I never used those cards in anything but cedh, i don’t use cedh staples in lower powered commander. Those cards were not issues in competitive or casual for me, but yeah there’s always one sweaty player claiming not to play cedh and is missing only like 3staples and a dual and pubstomps casual players. Normally i don’t see much of that at my lgs, but yeah kinda sad for the rocks, they just weren’t hurting anyone in cedh, and i didn’t really see casual players shell out $200 for a crypt. Sooo yeah it seemed unjustified for me, it really slowed many cedh decks cuz of JLO, and other decks were unscathed.(kinnan,rogsi…)

Ban Sol Ring, Ban Mishra's Factory.

We need a ban list for edh and cedh

If the financial component wasn't so huge here, I don't think many people would be nearly as upset. It's because - without any heads up for 3 years - these cards suddenly got the rugged pull out from under us is part of the vitriol.

Not a fan, 99% sure I'm taking an indefinite break and if I "return" it will be proxied cards to play with friends. Screw the RC, hope they dissolve

People actually use the ban list?

Dumbasses catering to noobs and people who suck..get good none of these bans was needed other than nadu. I’m pisses this is so dumb and I will let the rules committee know it every chance I get

Safeguarding the format years and decades too late

1. Who does the rules committee represent? Because I know plenty of casual players, myself included, that are not happy with these bans. 2. Who elected the rules committee? Why do they get to represent all commander players?

Phenomenal!

Spend some time on the RC Discord. There are apparently a LOT of players who have a vehement hatred for higher-power play. If you have a Mana Crypt, you are a pubstomper and Commander is not *for* you, according to those players. They arent the RC themselves, but there are absolutely some people out there who take an incredibly narrow view of how Commander "should" be played. Personally I think the only rule is for everyone to have fun at whatever power level the table wants.

Guarantee free counter spells or rather free interaction spells and more fast mana card bans are comming.

Glad i quit when i did.

Thank you for making this video.. I have watched this entire drama unfold, and I felt like there was a side of the community that just didn't understand where the anger or sadness was coming from and this is the only video that I felt really explained what I was feeling and why, so thank you again.

There’s no format to safeguard because RC doesn’t have enough data on the format to even think about to ban something. Nadu is the really the only thing that makes sense in a play perspective; everything else doesn’t have sense because you don’t even know how much those are played and if you use EDHRec you don’t know HOW the cards are used to. All data available is cEDH data and the bans are just made against cEDH because the RC doesn’t know, can’t know how people play the cards. That’s why the cEDH community is getting angry against the Timmy Committee and part of it is thinking to create their own RC to make their own bans and leave slow social play to those who want and make something for the “Spikes”; casual players rejoicing just create a bigger split

Green has the only haste enabler you'll ever need: Concordant Crossroads. But you're wrong about needing it for Primal Surge and Genesis Wave. No haste required. With Primal Surge, putting each thing on the battlefield is optional. Even if you exile a permanent, you choose to not put it on board. As soon as you decline, the repeat stops. And Genesis Wave is an X spell. So you can just count your remaining cards in deck and play it for less than that number.

You nailed it right on the head punstompers definitely ruined it for everyone.

These bans were an enormous mistake on multiple fronts, and I honestly can't believe nobody in that small room was smart enough to stop it

The fix is really this simple Commander needs bans and Rule 0 is a lazy way of approaching a "game management" Throw out notions of "power levels" Commander needs to become a tier system as a format. Much like Smogon for Pokemon (Uber) Tier 1 -> CEDH -> No BAN LIST (OU) Tier 2 -> Standard ( bans to get rid of "fast mana" / 2 card combos / anything that creates a wincon before T6) (UU) Tier 3 a-> Casual -> No mythic + bans from Tier 2 (RU) Tier 4 -> Tribal -> ( Tier 2 bans + tribal exclusive bans) this system means players know what they are signing up for when they sit at any table. you ask 1 question -> what tier are you guys playing?

Bad bans. CEDH needs a different ban list from casual.

100% disagree with the rc logic

If you are having those conversations then you can add in the fast mana. Banned list be damned. Rule Zero still works. But I think the ban list is for games with no rule zero

Replace all expensive cards with proxies

We have not forgotten the magic 30 video and you are not forgiven

The problem is that people who want to play slower, instead of doing that in their playgroup, want to make YOU play that way. That's the fundamental problem with this ban. It's just a vocal minority trying to make everyone play their way. If there is no ban on these cards, it is super easy to play without these with your group and come to that agreement. Anyone trying to get these banned, to force people to play their way, aren't playing with friends. They aren't having a social game.

Bro, fuck this "commander rules chodes" Literally, if you're not playing mono-green stompy they have an issue. And its pretty redundant at this point. The real issue. THE REAL ISSUE; their pricepoint. All of them should be reprinted into the ground. Then there'd be no problem. But the boardmemebers at wotc got the commander rules ppl to be their mouthpiece.

Omg people acting like not having these 4 cards get rid of your win con or adds 3 hours to a game

I don't mind the bans (however I did enjoy playing dockside) but I think my biggest gripe is that imo, this doesn't change actual edh, it hurts red massively in cedh, and like sweaty players are still going to be sweaty players. This doesn't help casual players at all cuz they already weren't playing those things. If it was something insanely like, "cyclonic rift really makes other people feel terrible and makes games feel one-sided" that would make tons of sense to me, but these bans feel super targeted to just hate on competitive play. I think the only real justified ban was lotus cuz that should NOT have been even considered. Huge mistake.

wotc or some other more offical team needs to just take over the rules - the idea of banning cards is archaic, banning combinations of cards in a deck is probably a better way to go

The problem is WOTC printing cards for EDH which makes EDH faster and more powerful by default. I was fine with pre-cons but now we get an insane number of EDH tuned cards every year. EDH should be about the player expressing themselves not WOTC building your deck for you. We were FINE with the existing fast mana for decades its only fairly recently it starting becoming a problem (hint hint look at the payoffs people are playing and when they were printed). Also proxies are 100% the future and I say that as someone with 4 5k decks.

We need to have people from different countries/continents in the RC, and the RC needs to be under WotC. This would be just a small start to make edh a better format, but at least it's better than the current state of things. They need to realize edh is played outside of the US...

What exactly hinders you to just play the game like you enjoy it with your playgroup and friends? These rules are just for new people that trying to find a way into this game mode so that they are not getting destroyed in their first games at a local gamestore. Just continue playing what you enjoy.

This banning sucks for a lot of reasons, but I think it's a response to the overall power creep and speeding up of the format. I don't miss the days when games took hours to finish, but as cards get more powerful at lower costs, the game is really speeding up, and this pumps the brakes a bit. As for the cards, Jeweled Lotus, Dockside, and Nadu were all designed for EDH, and they were all poorly designed in my opinion. The designers at WotC usually do an excellent job, but these were not their best efforts. Mana Crypt is a different story, arguably the most powerful card in the format. I don't envy the position of the RC, and I see why they did this, but if it was up to me I would have just banned Nadu, if anything, and called it a day.

2012, DJ. Guttersnipe has been wrecking battlefields since 2012.

The beauty of commander is the variance. I love cEDH and I love casual. They say commander is about having fun. Don’t tell me how to have fun.

No, infact they should ban more. CEDH players are seething tje Rules committe did something for the Casual player base when EDH started as, always will be, currently is a CASUAL format. Your magic cards are not an investment. Just rule 0 them into your play group.

Would you consider hosting a new seperate format? With a new banlist?

Glad to say I’m one of the people you’re asking, who is this targeted for? I cannot stand fast mana. It breaks the spirit of the game, plain and simple. And what is the spirit of the game? Well, there’s a reason that mana costs are assigned. Usually, a high cost means a more powerful creature/effect. Obviously if you play those card’s earlier than intended, that’s going to be a powerful, game warping play. This is what fast mana does. After starting around Ice Age and playing sporadically since then, I was an entrenched player. Well, I quit the game a year ago, almost to the day, and, honestly, couldn’t be happier. The rules committee is wise in saying that creativity is important. That’s the problem with strong cards, they simply go in a deck or it’s simply worse. It felt like %70 of a deck was staples you had to include or you’ll simply lose to those who run them. Deck building was partly done by necessity, not by choice. But how many times did I throw caution to the wind and say, screw it! I’m going to make this deck without the staples, it’ll be fine! And it wasn’t fine. Sit there and stare at your hand while your opponents with the expensive cards bowled you over. DJ, I think you are a rare case in that most people don’t get excited to watch their opponents go off. That’s cool that you’re naturally tempered that way, but for most of us it selfishly means yet another game where you won’t do anything. Maybe I had an above average play group in terms of hostility but most of the time quick mana for my opponents meant null game for me. Not trying to troll you guys but now that I’m on the other side of it I can’t for the life of me figure out how I put up with it for so long. MTG is a master duping game- it baits you into thinking that yeah, you’ll get to play with that card and do that one cool thing, etc., and it rarely happens. Perhaps this game is for the optimists and those who truly don’t see how much you don’t actually get to play your cards. That all said, I watched jumbo commander years ago and did enjoy your content. So thanks DJ. Honestly, best of luck in your games.

I'm anti Sol Ring, so I'm in favor of all of these bans. When I first started playing Commander, I didn't have a high budget, and my LGS was pretty high powered. Rule 0 wasn't talked about as much back then, and I lacked the social skills to make sure the game I was getting into was a balanced one. What's more, not everyone had a deck for each power level at that point. Whenever I saw a Mana Crypt hit the battlefield, it was clear to me that I wasn't going to win, if even got a chance to play. If I didn't have a regular playgroup of friends, I likely would have abandoned Magic completely. Magic should feel fair. Fast mana, especially $100 fast mana, does not feel fair.

You make that adjustment. Many don't at random tables. "fun" for some is just winning. Social aspects be damned. For most with regular play groups this is not an issue. For those of us who play at different lgs and more randoms. It is. Bans we're correct. CEDH just needs their own ban list at this point. Are their players being stomped by this at lgs stores. Yes. I have and continue to be. And I don't have the budget to keep up. And pregame conversations aren't easy for those of us new or unfamiliar to the people at the table. Why should I have to dictate the way they play with a rule zero conversation where I have to debate and force my views across? I would rather a global list we all follow.

I’m one of the people who have had these cards, and didn’t feel they made games better.

I support the bans and the reasoning behind them. Sol Ring should be banned too, but since it's part of every precon, they can't, but with the reasoning they used to banned Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, and Dockside Extortionist, were they to start from scratch with the Commander format, Sol Ring probably would be banned or wouldn't have ever been created.

The banlist is a list of cards that any player can veto without question in an untrusted playgroup. If you want to play power 9 at my table, I'm ok with it, if everyone else wants to see it, bring it.

Proxy everything

The funny part is I don't even own any of these cards except Dockside that came in a precon I bought years ago. Mystic Intellect I think. I believe the person(s) responsible for the banning should go get pub stomped more often especially on Arena (Historic) Brawl it is only then they will realize there are so many broken strategies and these cards really are not a problem. Unless they wouldn't learn from the stomping and then proceed to ban everything. Go play a Kinnan deck and watch it crap a ton of creatures on the field and realize these cards are not a problem. Although playing Brawl on Arena is 1v1 pretty sure most completive strategies like the Kinnan deck could take out 3 players when you have 12 or more 12/12 with trample on board.

I think something we all need to remember that many players don't have 20 decks to switch up power levels like content creators.

Players have been PUB stomping each other since the inception of MTG. See FNM or anything else Pub Stomp has always been there, what I see are players being salty they lost. Instead of being upset reflect on the "Why you Lost" this is a competitive game and always has been. Clearly the rules committee needs to remember that its a competitive game first. Last I checked all the rules committee people play pretty competitive decks too so It blows my mind they thought these were okay to ban...After ALL THIS TIME. NOW. So they new updated way to build a commander deck is too "Not win" or optimize your deck it's to play a social game where everyone is a winner. Sounds pretty lame to me.

when I say format warping, a huge part of that is consistency Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, and Dockside are only 3 cards in 100 card deck the chances of consistently getting them every game is not extremely high. Consistency is a huge part of what makes something warp a format and these cards were like nice to get early game but it didn't happen that often.

There are more fast mana cards that are not banned though so their logic is flawed. Lotus Petal is also free to play. fast mana.

Both of my playgroups have agreed to ignore the bans and just keep playing how we like