not in our experience. if you think why scrim tape is used, to avoid cracking, the matting is very similar to this. Also the surface temperature of the system is little more than a hot summers day and has had no effect at all in various systems we have now installed. I hope this helps.
@Top12Boardsport7 ай бұрын
We have our IR on motion sensor’s in some rooms because not all rooms in our house are used on a daily bases. And as soon as we enter a room the IR is turned on and reflects on the body. These rooms are kept at 15 degrees Celsius. Bedrooms we never exceed 18 degrees. Celsius. That brings the cost down a lot.
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
this is the worse way to maintain even heat and limit heat loss through a property. Zoning to this amount is now proven to waste a lot of energy. It is better for the building fabric to have a steady state as well as for people.
@Top12Boardsport7 ай бұрын
@@meservices3979 yes even heat is not always the best way. Having a base heat like 15 degrees in a room that is not used often is a better alternative. And when you use that room you get a good heated feeling fast. Motion sensors is the way to go in these rooms.
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
If you’re happy with it, then it is right for you. 👍
@brianjenkins7989 Жыл бұрын
Did you get any further data for the cost of running the system over the past couple of years?
@gallerysales Жыл бұрын
Would you recommend this system over an air source pump with underfloor heating (retrofit ufh on slim insulated floor panels) Cheers
@meservices3979 Жыл бұрын
Hi It depends on lots of factors so not an easy one to comment without knowing the full facts. Is it just a room, is it a whole house, is there an ASHP already installed, does the property have solar panels etc etc. depending on the answers to this and a few more you could then determine what is best. If it is for a whole house, generally, it would be cheaper to run an ASHP. If there is gas heating currently, then the two might be as cheap to run.
@gallerysales Жыл бұрын
@@meservices3979 Retro fit ufh and ASHP to 3 bed bungalow.. Also can the panels be placed on an artex ceiling and then overboarded and skimmed? No solar panels....
@meservices3979 Жыл бұрын
@@gallerysales your best getting a qualified and experienced heating engineer to assess and undertake the heat loss calcs in addition to the other considerations which an experienced engineer would be aware of. As far as installing over artex, I would recommend reboarding and you should also use foil backed plasterboard to deflect the infrared down into the room. I hope this helps.
@gallerysales Жыл бұрын
@@meservices3979 Brilliant, thanks If your near I will be contacting you 👍
@tlangdon12 Жыл бұрын
Caleffi have listened and now do versions with nuts and olives! Part numbers begin 108 rather than 107.
@meservices3979 Жыл бұрын
Please do add the link to help others. Thank you for the comment
@FlexelInternational Жыл бұрын
No need for expanding and contraction of the plaster? Surely this will lead to cracking issues later on?
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
not all all.
@FlexelInternational Жыл бұрын
Wow - nice to see what our competitors products need to install! Panels are so much easier and faster!
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
and much uglier. 😆
@pavelkarlik Жыл бұрын
Wanted to install those but I have quite an issue with manufacturer requirement not to insulate them, that's quite a heat loss. Any idea how to solve that?
@tlangdon12 Жыл бұрын
The answer is not to solve the problem. Caleffi explain in another video that it's important that the central section of the value has the lowest temperature of the any component in the system (including the outdoor unit), otherwise it can't protect the outdoor unit from damage. This also means that you can't put any trace heating close to these valves. You can insulate right upto the connections on the valve, but the body of the valve must remain uninsulated. If the home has some Solar PV and Battery storage, the energy lost is being replaced for free anyway, so perhaps its not enough to worry about.
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
I am not 100% what you are referring to. however, if you are installing on the upper floor we highly recommend installing higher levels of insulation above and no matter the floor always use foil backed plasterboard
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
there are no outdoor units or valves. this is not a wet system.
@sergiubogos7757 Жыл бұрын
Hello can be good and for minus 15 degrees?
@meservices3979 Жыл бұрын
Yes. They start discharging at higher temperatures and whilst the liquid is moving it isn’t freezing. Once empty your risk has been lowered.
@Simonmc782 жыл бұрын
ive a heat pump but am considering installing them in my bedrooms and hall as the rads fail to heat up those areas to a sufficent temp in my opinion. thanks for the video.
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
look at your insulation first then the size of the radiators. if you have a heat pump and had been installed correctly I would not recommend you install these panels in addition. your heat pump will be 300+% efficient, this system is only 100% in comparison.
@mrv58012 жыл бұрын
do u travel to harrow, london??? i need a full megaflo service please
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
No sorry, but you should easily be able to find someone qualified local to you. Hope this helps
@mrv58012 жыл бұрын
could a clogged & dirty mesh filter / strainer in the combination valve cause the water pressure to drop at my taps & shower??? ive noticed the pressure drop for a week now & have checked all isolation valves are still fully open - so im wondering if i should now check the mesh strainer in the combination valve. i still have the old style heatrae sadia megaflo combination valve (15 years old) with 4 allen bolts!!! i think it may be time to change it for the new style of combination valve. any advice please???
@amoryblaine11022 жыл бұрын
Hi .would a 800 watt panel fixed on the ceiling above the bed be able to heat directly underneath quickly? Not worried bout heating the room just the person directly underneath. The distance from the panel to the bed below would be 5.5 feet.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Hi there. Every product varies, it would be advisable to refer to the specific manufacturers instructions to confirm the product meets with your requirements. Reach out to the supplier for their response they will be best placed to respond correctly to your specific query. Hope this helps.
@amoryblaine11022 жыл бұрын
@@meservices3979 i know that. Am asking for your opinion based on your experience of your panels.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
@@amoryblaine1102 in truth i don’t install the panels you refer to, only in plaster systems. Sorry I can’t help
@amoryblaine11022 жыл бұрын
@@meservices3979 no worries. Cheers.
@TheFakeyCakeMaker2 жыл бұрын
Hi, I watched some of this video because I wanted information on the installation and running costs of Infrared Heating. It was unhelpful to compare it to just gas, it would have been more helpful to compare it to other electric heating. My flat is electric only and we are trying to save money with IR heaters. It would have been useful to show an installation that wasn't as indepth as this (we're not attaching to permanent wiring) and to see what the difference is between that and an electric panel heater.
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
this video won’t be suitable for everyone I’m afraid. however, electric heating and electric heating will be the exact same. your heat loss determines what possible savings you can make
@TheFakeyCakeMaker2 жыл бұрын
Running costs: 16:22
@showme3602 жыл бұрын
I would never use Infrared Panels as a total heating system for a house, (unless solar and battery storage was involved) we use our to enhance ASHP (because we have very poor insulation, working on that long term). Through our solar system in the autumn and later winter months on cold sunny days we use the panels to heat our main rooms, so we don't have to turn the ASHP on. Otherwise when the ASHP is switched on we use it to boost our heating in very cold days -5c/-10c. They do work very well, but they are meant for well insulated homes. If you want to find out yourself, I would recommend fitting one to your shed or garage and see for yourself. Even on a very cold day standing in front the panel will keep you warm, out side of the zone will be cold especially if your insulation is poor. We have one on the chimney breast in front of us as we watch TV, and we often have to turn it off as we get to hot. We are soon to fit one in our bedroom to preheat the bed. Any electrical heating system that runs on a 1:1 ratio is never going to be cheaper than Gas becuase the units charger are not the same. With an ASHP on the other hand, which can operate at a 1:4 ratio will be cheaper, assuming the property we are comparig are made of the same materials and insulation materials.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Hi Ken. Thanks for your comments. A few things to note. This infra red is entirely different to the panels you have. Same ish tech but as a whole house solution different also. Electric and Gas are rapidly becoming the same. So one may well not be cheaper. Oil in fact is the cheapest at the moment bought right You’ve already said your property isn’t insulated correctly so a 1:4 is unlikely and if you need to top of that heat you have some other major issues. Your unit is undersized or your emitters are. Both will result in poor SCOPs and I’d suggest you have that investigated. No full electric system is ideal, the property we are testing has solar now batteries and in the highest FIT tarrif so we knew it would pay itself to run. This was more an experiment to prove or disprove the rhetoric surrounding this tech Anyone is solidly advised to spend there money on insulation all day long as this will conserve energy. There’s after work on dropping your heating mean water temperature no matter the medium. Only that will substantially lower fuel bills long term. We are in the middle of an EWI on a filled cavity property and will post the before and after running costs in the future. The future means insulation and dropping the flow temperature. Period.
@genesisoflufc51822 жыл бұрын
The reason for degradation in carbon mats and films is a chemical reaction over time between the carbon and the plastic in the material . Gets worse as it ages
@MadamVino2 жыл бұрын
This is really interesting - thank you. I am in a similar position - no option or want to connect to gas, and a real financial need to move away from the ancient oil fuelled boiler at my now property. All the reading i have done about Far IR suggests that the way you use it to heat your home is different - I wonder whether the occupant in your experiment has understood this - it seems to be radically different to GCH. I'm certainly not able to go through the effort you went to with the woven panels, but I have bought a few stand-alone units from Herschel. I look forward to monitoring my own usage over Winter, and to seeing how your occupants get by. Thanks again
@the1beard2 жыл бұрын
Suspended panels are an easier option
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
agreed, but the advantage with this system is two fold. total coverage in this system, unless you’re filling the ceiling, and then the other obvious one, aesthetics!
@keithware53142 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I am interested in infra red heating but considering the panels which are surface mounted, do you have any experience of this type?
@thelaserhive33682 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Now that gas prices are going through the roof, how would your summary change? We have Solar PV and a useable 4kwh of battery storage in a bungalow ( we use OctopusEnergy Go for cheaper energy storage at night also). We have a gas Combi. Any case do you think in getting some IR panels in our circumstances?
@meservices39797 ай бұрын
at the time of my reply, GCH is still cheaper to run. by far
@richardteychenne39502 жыл бұрын
Much more spaghetti than I expected. Will have to watch the others to see how it all worked out.
@lexsullen33382 жыл бұрын
We built a block of flats. Gas in all bar one where we installed an infrared system. Same U values. The infrared system is twice as expensive to run as the others. You can’t add weather compensation and load compensation to a direct electric heating system. Electric heating is the most expensive form of heating, you can’t ever get away from it. If you had to install electric heating then at least the dimplex quantum would be cheaper to run, and cheaper to install. Great video, very honest and on point! Thank-you
@PeterAllen-o8e3 ай бұрын
On what basis can you say that the Dimplex Quantum would be cheaper to run? All electric 'radiators' cost the same to run - they take the same amount of electricity to reach a certain termperature. Having more control of the 'radiator' is another thing, and bring able to manage your heating can certainly help keep costs to a minimum, but all convection electric heaters cost the same to run and comparing them to the IR installation in the video is disingenuous unless you can actually point to real life data. I think it's fair to say IR (and electric convection) can't compete with gas, that's a no brainer. Replacing convection electric rads with IR is a much better case study. Show us *those* comparisons.
@dualcyclone2 жыл бұрын
This is a great video. Thanks. So I guess if somebody were to install PV with battery storage, this may also be a good option? Would be good to see what the heating requirement is Vs the PV generation to see how it compares and how reliant any user would be on mains electricity
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
PV only truly offsets with battery storage. This is because in the winter months when you need the most heat, the PV in turn generates the least amount of power and never enough to run any system without storage. For example, you may be generating 50 watts but if your system needs 4kw to run, the balance between 4000 watts and 50 watts which is 3950 watts is being supplied from the grid. If you had PV when the FIT was high, the repayments would cover this. But if you add PV now without storage your kind of wasting your time. You need stored energy so you can draw all of the heating requirement.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Update so far: kW usages October 2021: 450kWh Average Daily Temperature 12.1 November 2021: 736kWh December 2021: 1004kWh January 2022: 913kWh February 2022: 635kWh March 2022: 538kWh
@DavidNormanMusic2 жыл бұрын
Hi there, I'm just about to do an install of this and I work for an architectural practice that have specced it a couple of times. Are you able to share the spreadsheets of your full year of data for me to share with my colleagues?
@ryanrankin86692 жыл бұрын
Hi David would be interested to hear what you think of it once installed as we are looking at this system for our new build
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Install a heat pump Ryan. NOTHING else can give you a COP of 3.5 and upwards!
@DavidNormanMusic2 жыл бұрын
@@ryanrankin8669 Will let you know! Hawkes Architecture will publish the data when the study is finished. A heat pump wasn't an option for me: Small house and had no existing functioning radiators so the IR install was much less upfront cost than a new wet radiator system. (was plastering ceilings anyway.) Plan to get solar and battery storage eventually to help with the undoubtedly higher running costs. Please note I have massively improved the fabric of the house too- the most important thing!
@ryanrankin86692 жыл бұрын
@@DavidNormanMusic would be great to get an update. We are doing new build (final stages of planning currently) and I have looked at this to heat our home. We will have 200mm cavity with blown bead insulation and going for a well insulated home which makes all the difference I feel. The thing that put me of the ASHP was the cost of the kit and installation. For our build we got quoted around £21k for kit only and the astectherm was around £9k with the savings you could do more insulation or solar to offset (that’s the plan anyway) but keen to hear real world cases
@DavidNormanMusic2 жыл бұрын
Indeed, and ASHP will have higher maintenance costs too, as it has moving parts. The key question is, when do the lines of running vs upfront cost cross on the graph (or do they!) We commissioned Mesh Energy to do a study for us on this and the results were very interesting!
@gringotom2422 жыл бұрын
Informative thank you. I'm looking at these systems as am currently on lpg and spending about £400 a month in the winter.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
I would suggest looking at something else tbh.
@coreyjameshaims4492 жыл бұрын
GringoTom - I'm in a similar situation, either stick with old storage radiators, go for an LPG system or maybe a heat pump or something 🤷♂️ Have you made any headway?
@gringotom2422 жыл бұрын
@@coreyjameshaims449 I bought a standalone Ir panel heater to try out. Video on my channel
@coreyjameshaims4492 жыл бұрын
@@gringotom242 thanks! Looking forward to a review once you've stress tested it a bit more 👍
@justinhalsall40772 жыл бұрын
I’d love to see a 12 month review!
@barenekid96952 жыл бұрын
V informative videos Thank you. I'm curious wanting your knowledge (if possible) re the Radiant heating. I have a home I built (3200sq ft) Albeit in Vancouver Canada. I fitted with ESWA brand Radiant panels (basically a clear film laminated sheet encapsulating heating foils.. Mfg'd by ITT in Norway of all places .. Ceilings and floors were well insulated (back side of the heat panels to ensure heat went where intended ) and the panels were stapled to the joists before applying the drywall .. Each panel receiving a dedicated 220 v line ...dozens of panels & 12 zones installed. I assumed it was a decent quality product. Well It wasn't...as the things failed.. one by one over the years.... 60 hz causes them to hummm and this fatigue fails the connections in the elements. Currently None heat.. I'm well pleased. Replacing means stripping the Gypsum board from ceilings and Stuffing in something else. But what ? Curious about your mesh panels Seems an easy(ish) retrofit. A slap the meshes onto an existing surface solution. At least Reads as simple 🙂 Not understanding what all the power junctions etc are. Doesn't Mains power go directly to each panel with a line voltage Thermostat ? Mine do. Other issue is cracking.... Heat cycling of panels does ..Bad things.. to Mudded joints... perennially ! I assume there may be similar issues with a Mosquito net stuck on by Drywall mud ?? Or Not ?? Small aside: Heating costs are higher than the Sales types claimed Higher than a Gas furnace Notably so And I live in a Cheap electricity (abundant Hydro electric power) area. Frankly I wouldn't touch Radiant electric heat ever again.. But now I'm stuck with my naive choice.
@barenekid96952 жыл бұрын
Hmm ...I have a House of 3200sq ft With Radiant electric heat panels. Fitted when I built the house from bare dirt. Over the years the panels have failed.. one by one. Currently there are NO working panels. V nice ! Observed that the problem is with the 60 hz cycle of electricity as It causes the heating elements to hummmm at o 60hz.. . And this sooner or later fatigue breaks the elements. NO ONE ever talks about this wee factoid.. Do they ?? Not sure what to do now... as even stripping Every ceiling in the house and replacing the heatpanels ($$$$) will be a temporary 'Fix.' That said I may have to go to baseboard heaters Or Strip the house to studs to retrofit a Hydronic system.. Ohh. by the way Electric radiant heat is surprisingly expensive to operate. I was "sold" on the 'economy aspect As this was Cheaper heat than using a Forced Air Gas furnace system. Absolutely Wrong ! When All my panels were still working the heating costs were well above that of another (and Barely insulated) nearby House that I own... running a Gas furnace. And I live in a low Electricity costs region So much for the it's cheaper B.S.....Caveat Emptor people
@mariusfelicianmuresan40062 жыл бұрын
finaly some good info.witch is the total installed power of infrared foils throughout the house?.i am using infrared pannels installed on ceiling (are more effective than on the wall)and they heat up faster because they are not covered.it is a very pleasant warmth and humidity is within normal parameters
@bjblyth2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I’ve just installed infrared panels in a cottage which has electric underfloor heating also. (I replaced some horrible electric rads I inherited with the property). My electricity bill is now £300-400 a month. I have had canisters for water heating so my electricity use is mainly the heating. 1300kWh in December and looks like it’ll be similar again in January (24p per kWh!) Next I need to investigate solar panels given that electricity prices are only going one way. How many panels does your customer have to support their system which is covering their costs in full at ~750kWh per month? I can get a maximum of 11x415w panels to give me a 4.5kw system - do you think it’s worth it in the long run to reduce my costs, using nearly double what your customer does? Was that the objective with this install you completed?
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Hello When the Solar PV was installed they attracted the feed-in-tariff, this is what is supporting the payments. On average you are using 25kWh per day, that is quite a lot. Do you have an older property? What temperatures are you setting the thermostats to? Are you setting back the temperatures? How leaky is your property? Age, insulation, glazing etc?
@bjblyth2 жыл бұрын
@@meservices3979 on average I’m using 40-60kWh per day according to my energy provider app. Temps are set to 17 overnight and 20 for 2.5 hours in the morning and 2.5 hours at night. It’s a 200-year old cottage but has been renovated and fully insulated. Double glazing all round. It baffles me! Do you think solar + battery would help?
@mansuk072 жыл бұрын
Really intresting - how would actual infrared wall/ceiling panels (far reaching) rather than a ceiling mats compare to gas central heating ?
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
It is all explained in the video Mansuk :)
@mikekilby97852 жыл бұрын
I ordered my Astectherm mats for two rooms & they arrived within a week. You need solar PV & batteries to make IR mats worth it. Great video btw.
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Great, you were much more fortunate. Agree with the solar, if youre on the decent FIT then no batteries needed, at least for a good few years. How many kW of battery storage do you have? You have to weigh the life of the batteries also. Thanks
@ryanrankin86692 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike keen to here what you thought of astectherm and also how the system is working for you. How is costs to run?
@devbrix12 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Have had a couple of panels installed and impressed so far and looking to put in to other rooms. Not come across the mats and having them plastered in. How are they performing?
@meservices39792 жыл бұрын
Please check out my 3rd video, it will be available shortly.
@amberrivers-scott32513 жыл бұрын
I have an infrared heating panel that turns on but no heat? Any ideas how to fix?
@meservices39793 жыл бұрын
not without knowing what infrared heater you have Amber? Please feel free to email the image of the heater to [email protected] :)
@davidtaylor28113 жыл бұрын
Can you provide contact address I would like advice please
thx for doing this, i have been searching for something like this, can you tell me if the insulation has been redon as part of the retrofit
@meservices39793 жыл бұрын
Hi Danny We have one more video to upload Insulation, no need but recommend you obviously have the 270mm if possible. (Top up maybe required) What I do recommend more so is you use foil backed plasterboard or install foil roll in the loft to deflect the IR. 👍