that ground loop really emphasizes the analog electronic side of this talk

Over a decade later. Nothing has changed, the dystopia spans every corner of the country. Goodluck!

David Graeber is duly missed

How they do they always have so much time for these introductions

What date did this interview occur?

Rip to both of them in very different ways

Democracy is not a utopic panacea. Democracy is overrated. Democracy doesn't scale. The underlying assumption of democracy is that everyone will use their vote in their own self interest. When in fact the majority not only vote against their interests, but vote themselves into wage slavery, depravation of basic needs, and for the continued dead heat sprint toward human extinction. Without an unbiased education, without independent news, without equality- you can't expect anyone to understand what their own self-interest is. Even if you could, you couldn't get a majority to sustain cooperation toward a common goal. People are easily influenced by maniacal, self-interested authoritarians, charlatans, pied-pipers. Instead of democracy what we need is a self-enforcing system that suppresses the base antisocial behaviors humanity is prone to, and incentivizes and elevates the most altruistic ones.

It's crazy how he predicted the end of capitalism back then

Glad we have these.

❤thank you.

Sounds a bit like techn9ne, but softer and mellow due to the sweet production choices

Skating on the beat, ethereal, the triplet flow is unbelievably smooth

Was there brother, great show

I was there

jpeg goatttt

A tremendous loss for us all. RIP Professor.

King Williams didn't went to some merchant to borrow 1million pound for the war against France, he went to Rothschild family to ask this money...

Man Charlie Rose became obnoxious at the end, just forcing words in and out of people's mouths constantly. Not that he didn't do that in the beginning, but in this case it's SO pronounced.

I actually think Graeber is slightly wrong, maybe: INTERNATIONAL debts are different, because the international society of countries is anarchic, with the US basically being a thug that decides what the "rules-based order" is, using debt as one mechanism. PERSONAL, informal debts are also different, for the same reason (one of my favorite insights of Graeber's is that personal informal life is anarcho-communist) BUT, in my (limited) experience, professional people, investors, lawyers, etc. don't look at debt as morality. Sure, they're happy to use morality as a rhetorical weapon against debtors, but when you buy or sign a debt contract, like all contracts, IT MUST SPECIFY what happens if the debtor doesn't pay. Also, the debtor IS ALREADY PAYING EXTRA for his likelihood of defaulting. So this possibility of not getting paid is reflected both in the price AND the contract itself. So it's dishonest to say "well, but surely one must pay one's debts", because the debtor can default and still be behaving lawfully, which is usually what happens. (Not to mention it is often an artificial entity, not a person, that fails to pay). Successful businessmen have bragged about how many times they (or their companies) went bankrupt before one made him rich.

"We've managed to eliminate the corruption problem largely by legalizing it" - great line

Charlie Rose demonstrating that deliberative democracy doesn't work because there is always someone who doesn't stfu and let the other person answer a question

I like graeber and hmos are violent but at 26:44 same comment in his book debt about the violence of ejecting someone from a library… has he ever encountered the often violent loons who demand entrance to libraries without ids? Also many university libraries are open to the public

david graeber didn't kill himself

goddamn, another banger from graeber. miss you bud

Charlie rose is so annoying and he’s always interrupting people.

Love Graeber. One of the smartest men who ever lived. An honest man at that.

The fix is in, as rigged and upheld by the hierarchy, who maintain all control in order for this status quo feeding frenzy to exist.A human-invented-monster morph- chameleonizing the politician-lobbyist, which through this corporatacracy, self replicates. Piece by piece dismantling can be done through egalitarian reconstruction. Praises to Graeber and Wengrow for their Dawn of Everything. OCCUPY has FUTURE with ADVENTUROUS PROGNOSTICATORS ! Power to the People, by the People, for the People !

Charlie Rose is insufferable with his constant interruptions and immediately trying to knock down Dave's researched argument that the US is a kleptocracy. Rose is such a corporate tool. This is unwatchable.

Is there a version without the feedback hum on the audio?

I can't wrap my mind around how any moral, intelligent person could be an anarchist.

it's crazy that charlie rose is such a well-regarded interviewer. he looks like he's barely listening here. same in the other graeber interview from 2006

He was a smart man but he is completely wrong about where loan money comes from. When you get approved for a loan from a bank, the bank contacts the Federal Reserve and simply gets permission to withdraw the money from your secret bank account at the Federal Reserve. It is called a c'est que vie trust. Do the research. If you have a birth certificate, you have one. All the bank does is give you your own money from your own bank account! Banks don't have any money. As soon as you deposit money in a bank, they immediately spend it. But since you don't know that, they convince you to pay the money back over time with interest. Once Americans find out this truth, there should be a revolution.

This how confused thinking David Graeber's argument about the debt created by government's deficit spending was :- He says "It's not like the King ever paid back his debt from whatever war in France he was fighting in 1692- ." No David the King never paid back his debts because he was the equivalent of the ruling government of today but the People who are the equivalent of today's public had to pay it back as they do today. He has shot his own argument about government debt not being paid back in the foot by giving an example from the past about why Government debt always fell on the public and does now because the government of today never pays back it's debt. the public does.

Mr Graeber's ideas are dopey . Firstly.- If someone gets a loan from a bank and the money is lost on horse or other loss then they are responsible for paying it back or their property gets confiscates and the lender gets the benefit of it making it their asset. The money is effectively destroyed. The money is also destroyed if they do pay off the loan because they would have had to get that money from the existing money in the economy. Secondly. if all the money in the economy was paid back to the queen or government the whole system would NOT collapse as you said that is because we live in a fiat money system where money is not limited by one sector. The private banks create most money (90%) in the economy when the lend to their customers and Graeber ignores this fact. Additionally the idea that the only way the government can balance the budget is that if you being the public can't is infinitely dumb. It is based on ignorance of an understanding and some idea that government debt and private surpluses compete against each other which is not supported with evidence. There can be no evidence because the government is not creator of money. The Central bank (Federal reserve) is the creator and so are private banks. Government is a user of money (the biggest single user) and gets its money from the private sector through taxes OR from the Federal reserve bank through borrowing..

Rule number one, anything a Jew says, automatically disbelieve, (((Graeber)))..

Definitely a founding father of whatever comes next if there is a next.

Hi, can you inform me what the link for the original talk with no cuts? Thanks. São Paulo, 16/10/2023 - 19h17 (-3GMT).

Graeber was right about green capitalism. It just took a bit longer than he predicted.

I love that thumbnail haha

* after being asked loaded questions about "democracy" and "anarchism" * "Charlie... can I call you 'Charlie'? You don't seem to know what any of these terms mean. Have you considered that maybe capitalists like that you're so ignorant?"

People who reveal these kinds of truths "die" young ... Wait a minute ... Graeber did die young ...

Graeber is basically lying here. He knows why debt has the moral force it does. Not paying a debt means living off the labor others without their consent.

south europe? where?

RIP Comrade!

Democratic decisions are made in individual consensus, ("it'll never work""), unless and until individuals are willing to learn, (built in), and willing to teach, with mutual respect, as often happens. More, and continuous, research is required, that is how the sausages are made.

love graeber a lot of respect for Charlie Rose having him on even if he's not always getting it haha

US legal forms advertisement popped up at 11:50 - LOL

18:50 green capitalism didn't happen at the time, but they did eventually do it

17:45 they obviously had to cut there (18:00)

Does anyone have a source for that story about municipal debt and the NYC police strike? I'd love to know more about that one