Well that settles the question for everyone.

Dave it varies from year to year and 2023 was a wet one but the race officials really busted their tails to give us chance to run . I had two decent runs before I crashed so I knew the limitations were. I'd be interested in knowing the friction coefficient of gravel it might be similar to salt. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Douglas blowouts with tube type tires can turn out badly for sure . Most motorcycle racers on the salt stay away from using the brakes unless loading or unloading because the friction coefficient on the salt sometimes is .3 to .4 unlike dry pavement at 1.0 so more often than not anything less than light pressure will cause you to tumble. We do use the throttle more and I used it with the front end weave in the first two runs and again in the crash run.

The previous two runs I on that bike it had a bad front-end weave. We didn't have time or runs to try to correct it. I was trying too hard to get 170 mph and the rear wheel spin combined with the weave got me in the end. My own dang fault the bike warned me. I think a few of the older Rocket 3s have the front-end weave. I rode a newer model in 2024 and it was solid as a rock. I think the older models are pretty good up to 140 mph.

Slicks are routinely used by bikes out there mainly because they are rated for over 200 mph. Of course if we knew the course would be so wet we could have run more normal tires with a speed rating of 175 mph. I've been running out at Bonneville since 2011 and that was the slickest course I've run on. The 2019 course had more crashes but the surface salt wasn't quite as bad as 2023. The morning of the crash it was 20 degrees colder and the moisture was still on the top of the salt.

@@stevebazydola7127 Thanks Steve. This was just my 3rd run on this bike. This year I rode an unmodified newer version of the Rocket 3s and it was much more stable with wheel spin. Unfortunately the chassis on this older model didn't suit this course. After the first two runs (see link) I knew we had front end weave issues but I pushed a little too hard on the crash run. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

@flatcapcaferacer not ridden the new model yet. Imagine that monoshock & other design changes the new model rides closer to a sport bike. Can't imagine pushing that monster on twisties. I've never had my '05 full on. Glad you're OK & brovo for giving it another go!!

@@stevebazydola7127 I've went out on a few group rides with the older Rocket 3s and boy did they haul the mail. Both versions are excellent with each having their strong points. I'm planning and going after another record with a Rocket 3 in either 2025 or 2026. I'm a huge fan of the Rocket 3s.

​@flatcapcaferacer I'm now subscribed & look forward to watching next year's ride & your content between now & then. Not riding anymore, still got 1 bike left & it's an 05 rocket 3. Really the only bike that ALWAYS gave me the adrenalin shakes after riding.

@@stevebazydola7127 Thanks Steve. My buddy I ride with has a Rocket 3 (2006). Sorry to hear your not currently riding. This afternoon I just talked to owner of the Rocket 3 I rode this year and our plans to take it back to Bonneville and shoot for a different class record. I turn 71 in a couple days so we want to get another record before too long.

I was the rider on the bike out there. Bigger and heavier bikes normally have the rear wheel spinning almost the whole three miles. The problems we had with the bike was the event was delayed three or four days because the course was underwater, so we go zero practice or lower speed runs to dial in the bike. The bike had handling problems in the first two runs with a severe front-end weave, but we still got it up to over 160 mph. See link kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU The run where I crashed was the last run, we could make before leaving and it was the backup run for the record in that class and we were shooting for 170 mph, but unfortunately the track was very cold and slick that morning. The extra wheel spin combined with front end weave was over the line. I would agree the tires were a poor choice but we were limited what we could run by the rules for speed rated tires over 150 mph.

??

Yes just between 75 and 80 mph

@@flatcapcaferacer "Barely got going" I am not trying to say it's not going to hurt. I know first hand how hard the ground can hit you. But that's the thing about Racing sometimes everything is right, and your'e thinking - i'm dialled in this is going to be great - i'm going to win ...then you crash...that fast. As long as you can go back for another try you can still be feeling good about out it...

I understand...a previous commenter thought I was only going 20 mph. I'll put a link to the first two runs on the bike below. This bike on that course at speeds was the most difficult bike out of the seven I have ridden out there. I did take another model of the Rocket 3 out this year and set a record. thanks kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

Hey you need to try to get up to 170 mph on a 800 pound bike on an ice rink Here is the first two runs over 160 mph and the crash was between 75 and ,80 mph kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

I went back out this year and got a record

Yep only between 75 and 80 mph, the first two runs were sketchy at over 160 mph kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

@@mtacoustic1 Well the salt can bit slippery like the crash year but this year it was very good. For record attempts the balance between being careful and pushing it to the limit usually racers lean towards pushing it.

Yes rear wheel slipping is pretty normal out there, the crashing part isn't 😁

@@UguysRnuts Oh boy that would be an old Rocket 3. The old one was sure a beautiful machine for sure . I can still remember the first BSA I saw in 1963.

@@flatcapcaferacer Everything is relative, I guess. My local shop still had BSA Rocket 3s in the crate in 1977 when I took delivery of the introductory Suzuki 4stroke, the GS750. The Beezer had a squared off tank with chromed sided panels and tyres as skinny as a MTN Bike. The GS is now in some rich guy's collection.

@UguysRnuts About time I bought a 1977 Yamaha XS750, I thought about the Suzuki then . I think the Suzuki turned out to be a much better bike

@@flatcapcaferacer Best I've had, even compared to the CBX.

True the friction coefficient is one on dry pavement and was about .3 on the salt that day. I've be salt racing for 13 years Michael and once you get salt fever the interstate never appeals to you again.

I'll remember that phrase and may use it, thanks

Your accident sounded more dangerous to me, hitting a cow or deer is a big fear of mine.

The bike had a bad front end weave during the first two runs, see the link . Normally the rear wheel spin is routine but combined with the weave not so routine. At 71 I don't bounce like I use to 😁 kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

I've seen some cars do some tremendous spins and occasional barrel rolls out there and it takes your breath away to watch.

Ah, the 68 Charger, goes fast but those drum brakes were not worth a damn in stopping it.

True

@@shorttimer874 True but at Bonneville, not really relevant. Also, that year the salt seemed soft enough that the rolling resistance tended to slow the car somewhat. Great memories nonetheless! FYI, If the salt is not hard and dry, it will actually start to pile up in front of tires, not much, but enough to really add drag. Those conditions will also make it more difficult to correct for wind, etc. because when the vehicle starts to wander, the salt will tend to pile up in front of the tires, slightly and make it harder to correct. I think a rule of thumb is if your vehicle is leaving tracks by slightly sinking into the salt, even a 1/4", things can happen very fast!

We missed Saturday, Sunday, Monday and part of Tuesday because the course had standing water. The course was a bit tougher than usual but the two runs in the proceeding afternoon the course way a little dryer than it was next morning when I crashed. I should have taken it easier but we were on the 2nd run for a record and that is hard to do

Initially the owner and I both thought the rear tire went flat after the rear wheel collapsed after hitting a divot in the salt going from 1st to 2nd gear about 75 to 80 mph. After watching the drone footage I'm more inclined to think the rear wheel collapsed during the flips. I struggled with front end weaves during the first two runs but I kept the rear wheel spinning in control then. I think I had too much rear wheel spin combined with the already known front end weave for the bike to recover. The forward controls made it more difficult to control the rear wheel spin as I couldn't let the bike move underneath like I can with normal foot pegs. I'll link the vid to the first two runs below. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

I went back and set a record this year. I have 49 runs out there and 48 were good but of course this one wasn't pretty. I'll be going back again but I'm not sure if it will be 2025 or 2026. I'll be riding someone else's bike again.

@@flatcapcaferacer Cool bananas mate! 👍

I've ridden two zx1400s out there and they spun the rear wheel the whole four miles . The Kawasaki's were great and I just let the bike move underneath me ( I have vids on these too). However on this particular Rocket 3 with the forward controls didn't allow me to let the bike move under me .

True but it still was between 75 and 80 mph .if you look closely you can see the gas tank flying off ahead of the bike . The first two runs at over 160 mph were sketchy ( on another video).

I was the rider. Smaller and lower horsepower bikes actually have to get most of their speed in the first mile . You are correct on larger horsepower bikes like this one that the first mile isn't as important. After the first two runs at 162 and 164 mph we were shooting for 140 mph in the first mile to hit 170 mph at the end . Usually (not this time) bigger and higher horsepower bikes spin the wheel the whole 3 miles with no problems. Typically the bike is running 500 to 700 rpns higher at the rest wheel than the actual speed is . This bike had severe front end weave which made it tricker to control the rear wheel spin, I did it twice but the 3rd time I pushed it too hard.

I don't blame you, it wasn't great for me but I recovered and went on to set a record out there this year. Thanks for watching and commenting

Correct Martin. We eased into the first two runs and qualified for a record at 164 mph. This was the 2nd run we needed for the record and would be the last run because we ran out of time. The course was supposed to be better for this run but because the temperature was about 20 degrees cooler it turned out to be a little worse.

Okay, right after you ride a 260 horsepower and 800 pound bike on a ice rink🤣🤣 kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

😄😄 Well it sure would grip better out on this course on this day. The biggest problem we have and had with the Rocket 3 is finding tires that fit and are rated for speeds over 150 mph. Here we went with smaller tires to get a higher speed rating but obviously it did go to plan. In 2024 I ran a Rocket 3 with stock sized tires not speed rated as high and they worked perfectly but it was a still something we had to watch.

It's really a beautiful place to ride most years but in 2023 it was better suited for jet skis. Legendary racers have running out on the same courses for a hundred years. It certainly is challenging even during good years but that helps make it special. We could go faster on pavement at sea level but to do it where the traction coefficient is .3 to .4 routinely and the density of altitude varies from 5500 to 7800 feet above sea level. So a great place!

Running a 16/47 sprockets will give more play in the chain because the rear sprocket is so much smaller. However, you should be able to adjust the slack out of it unless the chain is worn badly. The bike did NOT set any fault lights with any of the sprocket changes but I've heard some models not the Tiger have.

@@flatcapcaferacer thanks so much

@@flatcapcaferacer I have a new chain coming in. With new front sprocket.

I'll be doing a review on Tiger pretty soon.

I'd like to blame a rut but I don't think so. The owner thought the rear tire blew from a fractured rear wheel and caused the crash. The rim did collapse but I think that happened during the crash. Initially laying out on the salt I thought the rear collapsed after hitting a divot when going from first to second gear but now I don't think that is what happened.

My 47T rear came from Sprocket Center 949-220-0555 they also have the 50T for your bike. The 50T is the stock rear sprocket for the Tiger 900 GTs so your Triumph dealership should be able to get you one too.

Thomas wheel spin with high horsepower motorcycles on the salt flats is normal. Some bikes are easier to control the wheel spin than others. This particular bike had a bad front end weave which can be seen on the first two run video. The front in weave combined with the rear wheel spin on the course that day turned into a disaster. You have to push it out there but I crossed the line on the crash run.

😆😆Try it sometime, maybe the next time it snows and the cars pack it down some then get you motorcycle out and give the beans. Lots of thrills.

@@flatcapcaferacer Lived in South Dakota for 20 years, never dropped a bike on icy roads.

@@flatcapcaferacer Lived in Denver, commuted to Colorado Springs for 5 years, never dropped a bike on iced-over freeways.

@@LordDustinDeWynd I never dropped one out there in 13 years but 260 horsepower can bite you sometimes. South Dakota has some beautiful rides in the summertime. Good luck

@@LordDustinDeWynd Last time I was in Denver in 2022 thieves stole my trailer and two bikes. I used to road race out at Woody Creek near Aspen and crashed a lot there.😄

Between 75 and 80 mph. The black thing flying off was the gas tank . I rather it had been slower personally that would have at least not total the bike.

@@flatcapcaferacer IT looked like you were only go’in about 20-30mph (?!?)…You got bigger Coglione’s than I do!!

Speed is hard to perceive out on a all white surface, you get a better idea of speed sliding down the salt 😁

Your right it is expensive and very difficult to do. My old BMW had to go to Germany to get the higher gearing he needed for land speed racing his BMW. What we do mostly on the Rocket 3s is remove the restrictions in the ECU and raise the RPMs the bike will run with the stock gearing.

I rode a Rocket when they first came out... a very cool bike....like half a Boss Hoss....lol...except with suspension that works and a real transmission

The newer versions seem to handle much better than the previous models . I might own one one day but until then I'll have to settle in being an occasional rider.

@@flatcapcaferacer Can you fit a bigger wheel/ tire?

We fit a custom 17 inch rear wheel in England to replace the stock 16 inch because there were higher speed rated tires available for the 17 inch wheel. The 17 inch tire was considerably narrower the the stock 16 inch tire though.

Racing up Pikes Peak on a motorcycle I think would be scarier thing than land speed racing.

Yeah that was pretty ugly, they helicoptered me out but I recovered fully after a few months.

@@craigpennington1251 The front end had a pretty bad weave during first two runs but I was able ride it. In the 3rd run, in the crash run I got the rear stepping out a little too much and combined with the front weave and a few other issues the front end folded under and tossed me off. Mostly my fault pushing a little too early. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53IlHavbcl0nNU

@@flatcapcaferacer Must try another fork system with a different wheel & tire setup. Hope the bike & the rider are ok. Thanks for the come back.

I'm the rider and rode again in August.. The difference was between the 260 rwhp, wet course and chassis setup in the 2023 and the 2024 setup of 160 rwhp, dry course and factory chassis was immense.

@@mrod7692 Thanks I appreciate that.

@neillstephenson5482 Neil that was about as smooth as it gets with 260 horsepower on wet salt....just my opinion after 49 runs out there.

After 49 runs over 13 years on the salt that is correct especially for higher horsepower bikes.

@Eduardo_Espinoza Thank you, it took 8 months but I'm okay now and set a record a few weeks ago.

Between 75 and 80 mph

Not long, a clean run last 90 seconds. The rehab lasted about 9 months though.

Tire availability on the Rocket 3 especially the back is very limited 240/50/16. Some folks run rain tires on other bikes.

Aggressive tires for the Rocket do not exist.

@@billdee9622 Im sure custom versions could be constructed

Yes I guess it would be possible but getting a tire you mentioned to speed rated over 150 mph that would last several runs might be a one off and over our limited budget. We had a special cast wheel built for the rear to take a 200 mph speed rated tire and it took about six months and $2200 and lasted seven and one quarter miles . Getting one off tires speed rated and certified is primarily done by the big budget teams. Really the tires we had were wrong size for the bike and track conditions but were okay for two runs but the conditions got worse on the third run so I should have backed off and settled for a slower speed.

I think the shift between 1st and 2nd was around 75 mph