Dead people aren’t free. “And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭10‬ ‭ESV‬‬ bible.com/bible/59/eph.2.1-10.ESV

Praying for you. This is extremely heretical and blasphemous against the Lord.

Really well said

Peter Berger - A Rumor of Angels

Nathaniel Parker

True freedom is reached if and when we come to privilege the well-being of others ahead of our own. This is the basileia - the Kingdom of God.

Albert Einstein recognized the force of love as powerful in the universe.

Eric Seibert We must understand the grief of the Egyptians. A miracle is a disaster somebody loves.

David Hume Natural History of Religion

Creatures that can have meaningful, complex relationships with God. [creatures that have free will]

Karl Barth and Alfred North Whitehead. Creation ex nihilo

Al Ghazali

This thought of god is not all powerful but he is all love as been percolating in my mind for a couple years. I have have to say it just makes sense to say he can’t stop evil but he be with us in it. I have small church community I would love to share this idea with. I think they will be open to receive

How fabulous!!! Yes, God has given us the keys to death he'll & the grave. We have a real enemy who seeks to destroy us from conception. Generationally he sends forces to builds & builds upon death of every sort. Keep on Brother ~ Holy Spirit is leading you ~ he'll fund you. He's pouring out upon those He loves in all your goings & comings.

That is right, the Most High is here for mutual love and peace, not to force or control.

I see many problems with Calvin's teaching generally, and in my research have learned that the Lutherans also had disputes with Calvinists in the 16th century. I'd like to recommend two books. These touch on Calvinism broadly, including his treatment of Messianic prophecy, his Romanist doctrine of the Church, and more. (1) “The Judaizing Calvin,” translated recently from Latin by Lutheran pastor Paul Rydecki. It was originally written by the Lutheran theology Aegidius Hunnius at the end of the 16th century. Here is the link to it on Amazon USA: www.amazon.com/Judaizing-Calvin-Aegidius-Hunnius/dp/1891469517/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+judaizing+calvin&qid=1622611815&s=books&sr=1-1 (2) My own book (if I may be so bold), which reviews the changes that the Geneva Puritans/Calvinists made to the original Reformation translations of William Tyndale and Myles Coverdale. It's a new book, but has 4 good reviews so far on Amazon. The title is “The Story of the Matthew Bible: Part 2, The Scriptures Then and Now.” More info is here baruchhousepublishing.com/the-story-of-the-matthew-bible

why is God a loving one?

Thank you for the video!

Niiice. Great work, Tom!

Does Essential Kenosis theology end in any variation of universalism?

Thanks for this channel. Love from India

His doctrine of Predestination is evil as was he. Calvinist think they are the elite meat, anyone that does not follow their false doctrine is scheduled for hell, so wrong.

Thank God for this video!!! What has happened to peoples ability to reason.

So, if God is in control over this world, why there are wars, poverty, murder, disasters, diseases, cancer, and all kinds of bad things? If an all powerful and loving God is in control, why there is so much suffering and pains in this world? Is it all God' will, does God want humans to suffer?

Which God are you referring to, there are thousands of them.

After many years of searching for answers to questions that in truth have no answer that my superficial mind can understand, I agree that God’s love is an invitation. There are very few concepts we can be certain of in this life: birth, our death, and our free will.

I want to read this!

Isn't this the same as "open theism"?

Sorry, 4 minutes of questions and no pertinent resolution was not helpful, enlightening or applicable. Articulating the question was fine, but there was no help here. It would have been better to offer some thoughts like the following. (a) Don't confuse how life makes you feel with how God feels about you. (b) Be cause God hasn't told us everything doesn't mean He hasn't told us many things. It is a bad trade to throw away all that He has told us because there are things He hasn't revealed yet. (c) God is not responsible for how people misuse the good gift of freedom. (d) We meet with God between the commas. It is often suffering that slows us down to meet Him there. (e) God has a mighty right hand. This is true! In another sense God has a quiet, patience, subtle "left hand" that often times accomplishes great things in unusual ways. (f) God, among many other considerations, is emotional. He makes this clear in His word. He expresses deep 'emotionality' for us. He also is clear that as a heavenly high priest He feels our emotions as well. Even in our tragic moments provides His nearness. (g) God pours grace into our brokenness. That is who He is, what He does, how he expresses empathy. (h) Is all tragedy undeserved, unfair and unexplained? Why do we most always assume so? Is it worth considering actions on occasions have consequences? (i) We are not in heaven yet. All creation groans and we groan with it. Difficult events in life sour the appetite for more of what earth has to offer and awaken the appetite for upward aspirations. (j) Keep in mind: Where and when God reveals His will is also part of His will. What you may not understand now may become much more clear later.

Why does Man PERSONIFY God? Man was created in God's image, not God created in Man's. I feel like I get it all, I just do not know how to put it in words.

Un-controlling love appears to share some affinity with Charles Hartshorne's work, so very familiar idea to me; perhaps the most logical position for a modern theologian to take. Zen-like, as well! What do you think, Thomas?

God the Father played by a Black female. Tells ya all ya need to know.

Absolutely magnificent scenery. Well done. Thanks for sharing. Paul.

Wow. I have never thought about this before! This video just totally broadened my perspective of God's love! Thank you for sharing!

Excuse me for asking what seems to me to be the obvious, why not join with the United Methodists? There are a number of perspectives across a broad spectrum within the denomination.

Dr. Oord, I met you at Open 2013 in St Paul and have been an admirer of your search for truth ever since. I have read through page 163 of The Uncontrolling Love of God and I have a question about why you say Essential Kenosis (self-giving) cannot be controlling. There is such a thing as tough love that can be a benevolent/loving degree of control. I would rather speak of an Essential Uncontrollability of Mankind due to God’s experiment of Creation (any degree of control would logically spoil that “experiment” = creation). This Essential would retain the solution to the Problem of Evil (better in my view than Essential Kenosis). Any comments? like “finish the book!". I am a pragmatist concerning theology - ultimate truth is "beyond my pay grade", imo. So I do not take theologizing too seriously. But like you I want a theology that makes sense. And I also want one that encourages me to righteous behavior as felt through the Spirit’s leading (sense fair play as discussed by CS Lewis in Mere Christianity) and in a listening sort of prayer (influenced by Richard Foster’s works). As such I play with ideas that say God can lead people spiritually but cannot alter the material universe directly (miracles). To allow such divine capability to tinker with the world materially would again lead to the Problem of Evil. Prayer/meditation can establish firm guidance for man’s actions that can in turn affect the material world thus blame is on us not God. I’ll be reading your last chapter on miracles closely (which I’ve peeked ahead on and it appears to say God’s coordination and human cooperation is needed for miracles to occur). Did Jesus become the Son of God by being especially attuned to God’s Spirit? Will justice ever be meted out supernaturally or do we reap our own rewards all the while being wooed by God? I give a tentative “yes” to both of those questions. Finally, good luck on your situation at NNU - you deserve better.

We need to be controlled, often by our circumstances. God uses these to mold us, nations into better more Christlike people. We need to yield to His discipline and recognize His grace, mercy, miracles and transformation in our lives. This way of operating is throughout the Old and New Testament

Beautifully done. Got mine coming. Brian

Thanks Tom, another well thought out and produced video complete with the Flying M and Owyhee Mountains. Loved it. Look forward to reading it.

Boom! Ordering this thing

Very interesting stuff. You should talk to Science Mike and Michael Gungor on their podcast The Liturgists! I think you would get along!

Tom, Thanks so much for your video and your example. I am not the only one who will watch the video and think hard about my own calling and whether or not I am truly being faithful to it. Thanks so much for your example.

The beauty of God's salvation plan is that He drives us to the dance hall too.

Unfortunately we can't get everyone to agree as to what is "essential" and what is "nonessential." That seems to be the rub.

Tom, thank you for your heart-felt, generous, and highly articulate response. Your emphasis upon the Augustinian / Baxterian dictum on "essentials" was well chosen and carefully stated. It is a uniquely evangelical blight to be unable to accommodate diversities of opinion, and reflects a fear-based and not faith-based orientation. You and yours are in my prayers. Do keep me updated. -The Very Rev. Dr. Donald Richmond, Reformed Episcopal Church -Diocese of the West

Hello Thomas, My prayers are with you and your family. Your impact on my spiritual growth has made a difference in my life, and even if nothing else comes from this, the impact you had on me and other students in the MAR: Spiritual Formation program is a legacy to not only be proud of, but for which the Lord will say, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

Thanks for posting this Tom. Even though you are positive and hopeful, the pain and disappoint is evident. I and others will certainly be praying for you and your family. Please know, I too am hopeful about your future!

Tom, thanks for such an open discussion. Hopefully you remember the impact you've had on me through my frequent, perhaps sometimes annoying, e-mails. You can add my name to your list of students who credit you with encouraging me to stay in the Church of the Nazarene. I believe you and another professor have bent crowbars in your offices as evidence of the work you've done in me. I look forward to hearing great things in the future. My thoughts and prayers are with you, your family and students during this difficult time of transition.

Dear Tom: I just watched the video. I am so sorry about the outcome of the Board of Trustees decision, but so inspired by what you said. I am with you, my brother, as one too who tends to land on the side of those who are willing to change and yet wants to remain faithful to all that is best of our Christian heritage. I will pray and work along side of you in whatever way that I can, despite my constant faithlessness and all too attendant vices, to live a life of Christlike love as we endeavor to build God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. Let me know what, if anything I can do. And know that I am praying for you and for you family. Take care my brother, your sister in Christ...God willing.

Tom, thanks so much for sharing your heart in all of this. As usual you present yourself with great humility, honesty, and love. My hope is that leaders will learn from this sad situation and grow from it. Our church faces a crossroads in the days ahead and for the sake of His Kingdom, I pray we can come out on the other side better not bitter, engaged not secluded, embracing not rejecting. I am so glad to hear you intend to remain an elder in our tradition for you have much to add to these sometimes difficult conversations as "we come to reason together" Your friend Dean Cowles