Yes, it's impossible not to think of that. I have the LSO recording which I think is one of the very best recordings of a Father Strauss waltz - by which I mean Georgiadis plays it like I would. Not necessarily a great recommendation! It's obvious why Strauss wrote it but I have no idea why Faust did and why he chose such an odd selection of music. I was half tempted to write my own quadrille as a demonstration of Britishness but I have calmed down now.

Je ne pense pas que ce soit une erreur de la part du éditeur. J’ai trouvé deux éditions différentes et elles finissent toutes les deux comme ça. Il est impossible d’être sûr, car presque toutes les partitions originales de Fetras ont été détruites pendant la deuxième guerre mondiale. Deux points cependant - Normalement quand je regarde les polkas et marches dans les partitions du piano du 19ème siècle, le da capo de la première partie est écrit en entier. Je pense qu’il y a peut-être une tradition en Allemagne de ne pas toujours avoir un da capo. J’ai de nombreux enregistrements de marches où c’est le cas. Il y a un enregistrement brillant de marches autrichiennes et allemandes par Karajan et la section des vents de l’orchestre philharmonique de Berlin. Certains le font, d’autres non. Et oui, je trouvais dommage que la famille Bach ait un CPE et les Strauss non.

Of course it's useless. It's a hobby. I wouldn't dream of publishing the scores. I haven't done sufficient research and I am neither a musician nor a musicologist. You do seem to be in a minority though. Most people like to have some idea of what this forgotten music sounded like, especially if they can't read a score. There is always the option of asking me for a score if it's something you're interested in. I don't understand the egoistic comment though. These days I nearly always do pieces where the score doesn't survive or is not easily available. Also, if you heard this music in the period it was written, you probably would have heard an arrangement. Still, each to their own. It's not compulsory to listen to the horrible sound.

@@cpestrauss8740 Don´t get triggered too much by this nonsense. 99,9 % here love your work the way you do it and are glad to hear some forgotten gems in an outstanding sound-quality.

@@Sokratekk Thanks. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I really don't understand the mentality though. If you can't say something positive, why say anything at all? It does slightly annoy me that nobody better qualified than I am is interested in doing this . You'll be pleased to know there's a Lanner waltz transcription in progress.

@@cpestrauss8740 It wasn't a reproach and I don't understand how it could have been interpreted that way? I love your work and encourage you to continue. What I don't understand is having the scores in reserve and not publishing them. Indeed, the word “selfish” was inappropriate and perhaps hurtful, for which I apologize. On the other hand, if you have your arrangements in Fahrbach notemment, I would be delighted in advance to play them for my students (crediting you, of course). Once again, my apologies and keep up the good work !!!!

@@cpestrauss8740 I would like to point out that I write with a language translator, which can be subject to interpretation. I am French.

@@DrivermanO 1890 ish

@@cpestrauss8740 Thank you

“Eduard was probably the best conductor of the Strauss dynasty” - Have you any evidence to support this? I have read contemporary descriptions of five Strausses conducting but have never seen anyone attempt to make a comparison like this. Who heard all six Strausses conducting? “because he learned well from his elder brothers” - Have you any evidence for this? Have you done or seen comparative analyses of the melodic and harmonic structures and orchestration techniques? I have not and looking at scores, don’t see any significant sign of this. To Eduard’s credit, his style is distinctive and no more dependent on his brothers’ than on Lanner’s or Fahrbach’s. “Edi often supported them in joint ventures such as ‘Trifolien-Walzer” - name three more! “Edi style did not change much as he knew the success formula from his brothers” - Any supporting evidence? Why did both Johann II’s and Josef’s style change later if they knew the "success formula"? It is impossible to confuse a Johann Strauss II waltz of 1865 with one of 1885. There is considerable development in Johann’s style over that period. Even in the limited time left to Josef after Eduard’s debut you can see Josef’s style changing. Eduard’s style didn’t change because he either didn’t have the talent or the inclination to push the boundaries. Most of his contemporaries did exactly the same. It is precisely because Johann II and Josef did not compose to a formula that they are arguably the best composers writing in this form (Pace Lanner!) To be clear, I think Eduard Strauss was a talented and professional dance composer. I think he wasn’t in the same class as his brothers and it is difficult to make a comparison with his father owing to the changing style. He produced lots of good waltzes but not one of them has stayed in the popular repertoire - and I don’t mean in specialist Viennese concerts but in the way that Waldteufel’s Les Patineurs, Ivanveci’s Donauwellen or Rosas’ Sobras Las Olas have. Eduard is a better composer than any of those three but the reason more of his music is played and recorded is that he is called Strauss.

@@cpestrauss8740 Every one who read a little about the Strauss brothers, knows that Edi was the most talented conductor. He was the one who played many scores of Johann Strauss II for the very first time. Johann Strauss Father and Son were extremely good musicians and businessmen. They knew people, who gather them popularity in the high society. Josef was very talented but he could hardly handle pressure. Josef could compose very quickly and at a very high level (he paid a high price for his prolific output - his life was shortened due to his high workload). My comment was to explain the origin of this masterpiece (Wiener Stereoskopen, opus 31). At that time Edi was the third compositor of the team. Johann was already fed up, as Josef was getting better and better and he could at sometime become the new Waltz-King (if he did not die so young). He (Johann) would not tolerate competition from another sibling (Edi). Edi (like Josef) composed concert waltzes, which were not printed, thanks to Johann Strauss Jr. influence on the editor. Have you asked yourself, why Edi`s opus 1 is a French polka, while every other contemporary's composers opus one is always a waltz! And it has been almost proofed that Eduard Strauss composed the waltz Du-und-Du (based on theme's of Die Fledermaus) and let Johann Strauss Jr get the credit.

@@luisprado7750 To quote Wikipedia - Citations required. There is not a single statement in this that is supported by contemporary, primary source evidence. You are entitled to your opinion but it is my belief when you say something is "almost proofed" you have to say what the source of your information is, where it is published and by whom and whether it has been peer reviewed. Unsupported assertions are not facts.

Thanks very much. I thought it was a really good waltz and I was happy with what I did with it. It is a shame more of their works are not played. I'll be looking to do some more of them.

@@cpestrauss8740may I ask if you are still using Noteperformer for your renders? And if yes, do you use ne NPPE-Engine? I only have my mobile at hand, so I can’t tell. BTW. I like your channel.

I would agree that his orchestrations are good. Strauss is a very competent, professional, dance composer. I would also agree that there is a lot of competition in 1863 (Johann II, Josef, Fahrbach I, L. Morelly, Ziehrer). By 1875, only Ziehrer of these is regularly leading a dance orchestra in Vienna and he doesn’t really hit his stride for another decade. Eduard had the opportunity to push on and show some individuality. He doesn’t. He seems to be content, largely (I agree there are exceptions), to produce waltzes with 16 bars per section mainly composed of repetitive 2 or 4 bar rhythmic figures and with routine harmonies. There is little extended melodic writing and almost no harmonic experimentation. Some of the waltzes up to that date do show some ambition but after that he seems to settle for being a good waltz composer when I think he had the potential to be a great one. I think it is obvious that the best of Eduard doesn’t stand up in competition with the best of Johann II, Josef, Lanner or Johann I but it’s arguable that it doesn’t even match the best of Ziehrer. Ziehrer worked at it. Ziehrer in 1895 is much better than The Ziehrer of 1875. The same cannot be said of Eduard. The best waltz of his I have looked at in detail is Freie Gedanken, Op. 39 (but not the arrangement on Naxos which is dire!). If that comes up on shuffle I listen to it.

Thanks for your comment. I think it just depends on what you define as “run of the mill”. I’ve given the treatment to one waltz by each of Keler and Labitzky and neither has inspired me to seek out more. I have got into trouble with this before by saying that I didn’t think Eduard Strauss was a great waltz composer, so here, done in about 10 minutes flat, is my categorisation of waltz composers. I’ve restricted myself to 19th century composers who, for most of their careers at least, wrote for and led dance orchestras. I also must have spent some time with at least one of their scores. Apologies if I’ve left any important ones out or if I have insulted your favourite composer. The positions are entirely subjective and boundaries are blurred. Class 1 - People capable of writing consistently top class waltzes. If I pick up a (mature) score by any of them I would expect to see something a bit out of the ordinary. If I haven’t heard something by one of these composers recently I will play some. - Joseph Lanner, Josef Strauss, Johann Strauss II, Philipp Fahrbach I, August Lanner. Class 2 - People who write consistently good waltzes and who occasionally pull something very good out of the bag. If a piece turns up on shuffle I will listen to it but I probably would start skipping after the second or third piece. - Johann Strauss I (but maybe due a promotion), Eduard Strauss, Ziehrer, Komzak II, Waldteufel (grudgingly!). Class 3 - “Run of the mill”. Pretty, professionally written waltzes by someone who knows their business but just a bit samey. Probably skipped on the shuffle, unless I’m in the mood - Franz Morelly, Leopold Morelly, Gung’l, Labitzky, Keler, Faust, Johann Strauss III, Fetras, Philipp Fahrbach II. Class 4 - The rest. If you look at the waltz category on imslp you will find 7972 waltzes, at time of writing. These are just the ones that got published and someone thought were worth uploading to imslp. Maybe we’re missing a genius but somehow I doubt it. Sturgeon’s Law states that “All things-cars, books, cheeses, hairstyles, people and pins are, to the expert and discerning eye, crud, except for the acceptable tithe which we each happen to like.” (From Theodore Sturgeon’s “On Hand: A Book”, Venture Science Fiction, September 1957, Vol. 1, No. 5, pp. 49-50). I think it’s probably an underestimate here. Just like it seems everybody today is “in a band”, in the 19th century anyone could write a waltz. Maybe.

@@cpestrauss8740 No Strauss, not evan Johann 3 could be called (He had only 39 works) run of the mill but like you I respect every ones tastes,

Merci pour votre commentaire. J’écris pour orchestre électronique. Il y a des partitions mais je dois faire beaucoup de changements pour que l’orchestre électronique sonne bien. Cela les rend injouables par les humains. De temps en temps, je fais des partitions imprimées et des voies pour des performances live mais c’est beaucoup de travail. Je le fais seulement si je suis sûr qu’elle sera jouée, que ce sera une bonne performance et que je pourrai peut-être venir l’entendre. Je ne suis pas un musicien professionnel. C’est un passe-temps.

I doubt that's true. Fahrbach certainly did play in Strauss's orchestra earlier and claimed to have helped in the orchestration of some of Strauss's pieces. That's likely to be true and, similarly, Strauss's handwriting is to be found on scores by Lanner from the period when he played in Lanner's orchestra. By 1848 Fahrbach was an established leader of his own orchestra and is not likely to have needed the extra work, or had the time for it for that matter. ou never know though.

I've stopped being surprised. He's just a very good composer. I'm also very impressed with the way his music adapts to changing fashions. This waltz couldn't really have been written any earlier than about 1870 and is bang up to date. He's also interesting to do because there are always "that'll never work" moments that turn out to work perfectly. I don't know why he's almost entirely forgotten. Maybe because he didn't go far from Vienna. Or perhaps he just wasn't charismatic. Certainly, when looking for piano scores, I rarely find any of his in libraries outside of central Europe, even in places where there are those of Faust, Gung'l, Labitzky etc. who are not in his class. I've never once found a published orchestral score ... and his handwriting is terrible which puts me off transcribing the manuscript scores.

Thanks for the offer but I already have a couple of sets of parts for Fetras waltzes that I haven't got around to doing. Just not enough time.

That's a very interesting question. I'm not sure I can answer it and, in any case, I don't want to do it here but your asking it has spawned a bout of uncharacteristic introspection. If you send me an email to [email protected] I'll let you know if I come up with anything. Two other questions: Why on earth does anybody listen to them and keep coming back for more?; What happened to the other 895 Lady Macbeths of Mtensk, or shouldn't I ask?

@@cpestrauss8740What happened to the other 895? I really don't know. Maybe permanently banned by the neo-Stalinists who moderate the comments? Or the ones who designed the algorithm to prioritize mainstream rappers and manufactured Barbie dolls like Beyonds? And let us not forget the scourge of ad interruptions that ruin many a classical work. I can be of great service to you there, along with taking your channel to the next level and bringing you greater pecuniary rewards. Perhaps I shall send you an email with some of the places that ache for your work...

I think one can level many criticisms at Google but neo-Stalinism is not one of them. I'm always interested in suggestions for interesting music to do. This is just a hobby though. I never take money for it. That would mean pandering to the tastes of the capitalist-imperialist bourgeoisie. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. I have a bit of talent and don't need anything.

@@cpestrauss8740 It is a small niche, true, but is a very loyal one that keeps coming back for more. The mainstream stuff just gets dumped in a basement somewhere for future deportation to the Goodwill when the next thing comes along. Meanwhile, one of the only reasons I am still bothering with KZbin at all is because of channels like yours, which have not posted on other more friendly platforms. With no ads to ruin the experience. And what if the KZbin moderators should decide that they don't like what you post for whatever reason? I have seen music just disappear before, music that should be heard and shared.

@@ladymacbethofmtensk896 I think you place more value on my work than I do. It's just a hobby. It's not a crusade or a vocation. Perhaps there is some value in the transcriptions but there is better software than Noteperformer and surely better interpreters of this kind of music than an ageing computer programmer with no musical training. The orchestrations are fun to do but with more research could be considerably improved. For me, the reward is mostly in the creation of the pieces. It is nice that some people want to hear them and even nicer to get feedback from real musicians and historians but I don't think the world would be a much poorer place if they disappeared. They're probably not all going to anyway as the best of them go to safer storage with societies and collectors.

I agree, and there are worse around too! Klemperer was not good as a composer!

@@DrivermanO You mean his "Merry Waltz"? It's certainly no the greatest waltz ever, sounds a bit like a pastiche.

@@Adamov1 That's the one! I have it on tape, only recorded it because it was so awful!

Where is the beer? All that I can see are whiskey glasses and soda siphons.

I don't think Faust waltzes have official English titles. American publishers usually just translated the German. This isn't Bird of Passage though. The Library of Congress has a set of parts for that waltz and it isn't the same piece. Since that publisher doesn't print the original title or the opus number, I don't know what Faust called it.

@@cpestrauss8740 Thanks! I just had a look a that sheet music & agree. It would've been fitting, though, what with "wings" and "birds" and all...

P.S. would love to hear your version of "Bird of Passage" (probably "Wandervogel" in German) if you're so inclined :)

There's an incomplete list of Faust works on imslp but unfortunately it doesn't include anything resembling Bird of Passage. I assume it's genuine Faust but without knowing exactly what it is I can't really work up any enthusiasm for doing it. That's highly unlikely to be Faust's orchestration either. I only know of one surviving Faust orchestration, although I'm not an expert. That looks like a generic publisher's edition. The piano part is a bit of a giveaway. Silesia was not a great place to leave your music at the end of the 19th century! Transcribing sets of parts is a chore. They've got to be genuine for me to even think about it. If a genuine piano score turned up, I'd probably get around to it. Faust is underrated and I do get requests to do more of his work.

I'm not convinced Wagner would have approved of people hopping around a dance floor to a bit of The Flying Dutchman. Some operatic music works very well shoehorned into a quadrille but maybe have a think what the original composer would have thought before doing it? Having said that, I like this one, but I would love to have been a fly on the wall if Wagner had ever heard it. Perhaps he did. I think he was in Vienna at about that time.

@@cpestrauss8740 They might not have liked it, but it happened a lot. I doubt Eddie asked Berlioz for permission for the Carmen Quadrille. You can't keep a good tune down!

Introductions are hard. Once I get to the waltz sections I am more confident of doing something reasonable as they are written to a structure, but the composer has a free hand with the introduction and I'm never sure of what I am doing, especially if it's a composer or an era I don't know that well. Here the piano score just has the tune and the accompaniment figures that I put in the wind parts. I wouldn't bet too much that what I have done is similar to Hellmesberger but I don't think the score survives. All I can hope that it is not too anachronistic as the waltz is worth hearing.

Re 3:42 cf Waltz 2 of Johann Strauss II’s Morgenblätter

Hah! It probably changes on a daily basis and there are lots I haven’t heard. Most of them are predictable - Künstlerleben An der schönen blauen Donau Wiener Blut Rosen aus dem Süden I like the ones where he’s not trying to be too symphonic (Not trying to compete with Josef?) so usually ones from the early 1860s - Feuilleton, Motoren (prefer the Marco Polo recording), Accelerationen, Concurrenzen. I’d add Freuet Euch des Lebens to those although it’s later Liebeslieder (first masterpiece, I like the Andre Rieu version … much to my surprise)

@@cpestrauss8740 Great list. I have very good rare recordings of Op. 293 and Op. 267, extremely inspired and danceable, which I will soon post on my channel. I thought that I will see Frühlingsstimmen, Wiener Bonbons or Morgenblätter on your list. Its very hard for me to pick my top 10 by Johann II, more like top 50, he composed so many dozens of masterpieces. This task is surely much easier for Johann I, Josef, Ziehrer or Eduard (my top 10 by Pepi: Mai-Rosen, Perlen der Liebe, Wiener Kinder, Hesperusbahnen, Aquarellen, Mein Lebenslauf ist Lieb' und Lust, Sphärenklänge, Herbstrosen, Delirien, Transactionen, Dorfschwalben aus Österreich, top 15 for Edi: Fesche Geister, Doctrinen, Ball-Promessen, Myrthen-Sträusschen, Manuscripte, Interpretationen, Studentenball-Tanze, Stimmen aus dem Publikum, Theorien, Aus dem Rechtsleben, Schleier und Kröne, Myrthenzauber, Glockensignale, Lustfahrten and Das Leben ist doch schön.

Re 3:42 cf Waltz 2 of Johann Strauss II’s Morgenblätter

He was employed by the British East India Company as director of the garrison orchestra in Bombay. I don't think he had been further than Budapest before that. They paid well and it was a good orchestra too. I have read reports of his concerts in the Bombay newspapers and have details of his estate on his death and he was very well off. He spent nearly 20 years there. The estate doesn't include any music and I can't find any trace of it other than the odd piece, including Op. 250.

It's about the same date as the book

I know it's not a passport. I was misusing the French meaning of something that let's you go anywhere. A key might have been less misleading. It had been a long day.

@@cpestrauss8740 I thought you probably did, but I couldn't resist! I should say I always enjoy your uploads, and appreciate the effort you must expend dicovering the rarities and then preparing them. More power to your elbow - or fingers!