@@Klyle06 I mostly agree with this. They are the ones that lose the most from this, as their goals are financially based. It's important to remember that the magic market ebbs and flows. Some other cards are starting to soak up the market share these banned cards gave up (mana vault as an example). There's money in the market people are willing to spend. It will level out in a more diverse way, rather than big ticket items. Which I think is more healthy. However, LGS's should already be considering how they approach MTG singles from their mass printing that has been going on for the last several years with product overload. If they were over leveraged into these cards in a way that dramatically hurts them financially, I think that's more on them.

@@xxhellspawnedxxThe RC said directly that the point is to make rule 0 conversations have less strain. Players could also do the inverse and rule 0 these cards in. I've already played a game where we have done that. Not sure what level of experience you are, but players are VERY bad at assessing themselves as players, the capability of their deck to win, and the delta between those things and how they represent it. That's the whole rule 0 conversation, and playerd are terrible at it. It will continue to happen for sure. The goal of these changes is for it to happen to a lesser degree. A more manageable level of people surfing past others while the other three play archenemy. cEDH players (at least the ones that are experienced and have a good understanding of the format) want to play within the commanders rule set with whatever tools are available. Check out Play to Win's video. Personally, I think you don't have to assume much intent from the RC. They stated their purpose. The people you could ask instead are Wizards and yourself. If these changes shake your faith in the format that strongly, is it a format for you? Why did wizards intentionally inflate the price of these cards, rather than giving them meaningful reprints? The RC has stated that these are the biggest problems in the format time and time again. I really don't know what anyone would be surprised that these cards would catch a ban. I'm just surprised it's all at once. Which I think is a poor way to handle it, due to the banning cadence we've had.

​@@HighlanderHipster I've got 10 years of playing under the belt, so I'm not some greenhorn. But yeah, sure, some people don't know how to do rule 0 in a way that avoids bad blood after the game, or simply don't want to, for fears of giving the game away, or because they're some variety of socially awkward. My point is, that is where the rules committee should've put their energy: On guiding the community towards better ways of doing this. As it stands, they have just cost the community an estimated 150 million dollars, probably made more than one LGS consider whether it's worth it to sell singles, and for no tangible improvement. It, in no way, addresses the issue of bad rule 0 discussions, which is at the core of most bad blood scenarios in the format, or intentional pubstomping, which is the lion's part of the rest. For my part, I've tried to lead by example, when I end up in a pod with players who, for one reason or another, just says "I'm playing X" or simply puts their commander on their mat, and thinks that it's good enough. I ask questions, I give constructive post-game feedback, and so on. But I'm just one singular player, and my impact on the greater whole is minimal. It would be a lot better if the rules committee did this instead. They have a lot more resources to pull from, and a hell of a lot more reach than yours truly. And, they have the capacity to not cause the community a lot of grief and upheaval, by doing this instead. Wizards has their share of the blame for making these cards as expensive as they were, absolutely. But I feel like that's a separate issue. You can pubstomp 7 ways from Sunday, intentionally or through ignorance, with any one of several hundred deck that runs neither fast mana nor "problematic" card draw engines like Rhystic Study (Which I would argue is just a minor stax piece, that greedy and inflexible opponents turn into a problem, but I digress).

@@xxhellspawnedxx I like your sentiment, but I'm confused if you want them to have an off or on approach. This seems to me like they are moving towards a more hands on approach and directing the rule 0 conversations (or maybe getting people to think about it for the first time. ie "can I play mana crypt in this game") which should have been happening the whole time. It's not a big issue in my local group in Nashville TN. Most of the surrounding stores know what we are about even (I like to think that's because we have good communication). There will be bad beats when new players to the group (often from out of town since Nashville is a tourist destination) stroll through and "pubstomp." We try to curve that as much as we can, but some people can't be helped. During and after the game, as you said, it's important to let them know what you're about. Adjusting your gameplay as the alarms bells go off in your head in a political way is also a valuable tool. Based on your experience, I'm sure you know what I mean. That being said, the RC is making a guideline to better steer this conversation and facilitate it. As far as the dollar amount, that seems rather sensationalist. These cards have lost roughly a little less than half their value. That's not making or breaking a game store or player. If that is, you were over leveraged and should look inward at the decisions that led you to that position rather than blaming others. LGS's should already have been considering their singles inventory based on the Secret Lair and quantity of sets as it is. It is, and has been, more volatile than ever before. It's important to scale back as a business (and players) from those things if you want to be sustainable.

@@HighlanderHipster I definitely want them to address the issues within the format, but not do so unilaterally. To make a simile, saying "I want politicians to take a firm stance on crime" does not automatically mean "I want broken window policing and a surveillance society" and so on. Ideally, I would want to see the community given a more active role in the decision making for the format. Commander is, after all, as much theirs' as the RC's, and as a collective, the community outside of the RC has a hell of a lot more ownership of the format than those 5 people in the RC does, simply due to being millions of times more people. Maybe the RC could consult the community through videos and polls (seeing as 2/5ths of the RC are content creators) and if a suggested ban didn't get a 60% or 2/3rds majority of support for the ban, it wouldn't happen? Another thing is the concept of the "banlist" should change, IMO. A banlist denotes a hard and unyielding "You can't play these cards", while the RC says that they are mere suggestions for you to work out with your playgroup. But for the large part of the community who don't have a limited playgroup, who play with different opponents every week at their LGS, the banlist is still treated as final, as it would in any tournament format, so it effectively is a classic ban list, which is an issue, as a card's "problematicness" is context sensitive. IMO, as part of this more active guidance to rule 0 conversations, they should abolish the banlist and instate a "Not suited for [ X type ] of game" list instead. Obviously Mana Crypt and Dockside Extortionist aren't suitable for a precon table. They are suitable for cEDH and high power pods though. Put them down as that instead. Active guidance, but without telling people what to do, to put it in a way. Granted, this last part may cause a certain amount of controversy in sections of the cEDH community who thinks that cards need banning to keep the meta fresh. But leave that for them to figure out on their own. They are, overwhelmingly, already enfranchised players with lots of experience, so I'm sure they won't have too hard a time to come to some sort of consensus on the matter, or set up their own system for handling this issue.

@@xxhellspawnedxx Good points. I share your sentiment. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. It's hard to get a meaningful conversation around the topic as I'm sure you've experienced. I think the goal of the RCs banlist is to protect the most vulnerable (new players or players that don't know better) from bad actors and from themselves. In that regard, I think the ban list is moving in the right direction. For people like you and I, we may not need a banlist. I didn't play these cards anyway because they don't facilitate the play experience I was looking for. The knock on effect of this is far beyond the RC, so I think it's important to remember the scope they are looking to make these changes through, and the part they truly play in this. The format has outgrown them for the most part. They want to be shepherds of the format, and for that I think they are moving in the right direction.

Yeaaa man. Preciate it.

I legit thought it was on my screen too. It was in the card image I guess 🙃

@@LogoMotive11 Thanks for your feedback. I have considered shortening the video, but in my head I include every card for a reason, so why not express it for the viewer to interpret.

oh hell yea, sure can!

@@ErikTheRedd1 That's true. I better like the idea of just letting it go to the command zone and getting something else back in case you need to refuel a bit. It's never bad to have options though.

Yeaaaa man

It is VERY effective in spellslinger decks if you have incidental tokens around.

🥵🤤🌶️🐌

Yea no problem! Have fun!

Commander is a format of "bad deck ideas." Commander is here to give people a place to use all the dumb strategies that aren't welcomed in other formats (because they aren't competitive). I don't agree that because you need tutors in your deck then you shouldn't bother. If you have a problem with tutors, you have to understand tutors aren't created equal. A demonic tutor is not the same as a very narrow tutor like Spellseeker. This deck in particular has a lot of narrow tutors that massively change my build in order to make those tutors more toolboxy and useful. I think that makes decks less samey and even more interesting. If you are playing tutors to go get one particular card always, I don't think you are making good gameplay decisions. The gameplan of this deck is far from "turbo out the mirror box." That doesn't even do much for you and leaves you very vulnerable to interaction for the already fragile plan. It is our closer/endgame. Meanwhile, we play more reasonable game using our card draw ramp and tutors to get to a stable board situation. Then when the cost is clear and we have some insurance, we go for the mirror box effects. The point of tutors is to remain flexible in an impossible to predict environment. As a side note, from my perspective, I am here to offer a list to the viewer that they will find has a satisfactory way of actually doing the thing my video suggests. I'm not here to click bait people or tell them to "rule 0" a bunch of shit. That seems like a waste of a viewer's time. I want people to look at a list, think "that's really cool I want to try that," and take it down to their LGS to try it.

@@HighlanderHipster That's a good take!

It's in the deck. Guess I missed it in the video somehow 🙃 Glad you enjoyed it! I've enjoyed the build a lot so far.

Honestly, Magic isn't really about flavor anymore. At least for me, the high fantasy aesthetic was one of the big draws since I began playing. Now with universes beyond, magic has gone to real world places, put real people into the "universe", and has brought historical/science fiction. I think having Optimus prime get countered by Samuel L Jackson is just part of the game now. It's not something we can stop, so you might as well play cards that work with your strategy for the sake of optimization.

Yea it's a quite fun trick for sure. I felt like if I'm at the point where I'm doing stuffy doll things, I'm already really happy. I don't want to have to rely on having a stuffy doll at to make one of my pieces work. I look at it like that is my end goal and not even further past that. But it would lead to some sick stories, and I definitely see why it's appealing.

​@@HighlanderHipster doing this at instant speed with saving grace seems like a much better and more flexible trick to.

Much appreciated 👍

Are you suggesting naming Wayta's creature type allows her effect to happen again? I don't believe that's the case. "If" abilities are almost always replacement effects. Both are worded as a replacement effects. In this instance, Wayta doesn't ever trigger, she simply causes the effected permanent to trigger again. Meaning you would need to name the creature type of the Stuffy Doll or whatever to duplicate it again. Since the damage dealers are all different types, I don't think it is worth it.

Thanks I appreciate it! I definitely feel really safe once I can start sunforging. I'm definitely very careful the first time around or two of the table as to not go shields down on protecting my Sunforger. But after protecting it for a turn or two, it's locked in!

Yea definitely. Only run a few big powerful enchantments to cheat into play. It would be a pretty fragile deck so you would want to run a lot of protection spells similar to the 1 mana one in this video. The deck would need to be designed much differently. I've been trying the card in an Eriette deck and I've liked it. Like all auras it's fragile but it's a pretty powerful engine.

😩🍌

Norin isn't what gets polymorph'd. Norin is the payoff for the Polymorphs. The goal is to polymorph one of the many tokens we create in order to find something to pay off Norin and all those tokens entering the battlefield.

No worries buddy. Basic land types are nice for searching purposes. There are a lot of cards that let you search or land types or give you extra effects when you play them. There are cards that have effects like "Island cycling" which normally would allow you to search up just a basic island. Now effects like those can get you other colors of mana you might need. Or cards like "Skyshroud Claim" that allow you to search for two "forest cards" and put them into play. "Valakut the molten pinnacle" will deal damage to things once you have enough mountains. The list goes on and on. I'll just summarize it as a major upside especially when you are running multiple colors. Hope that is helpful in the most brief way I can. 😅

I appreciate it buddy. Obviously the deck has went through some changes since the video, but it still is the same idea. Originally I didn't like grinding station because the neutral game felt lack luster. The mill was only sometimes useful. I also didn't feel I had a lot of artifacts I wanted to lose. The food looks useless but I find it very valuable for the first creature kill or two. Nowadays I run a couple more recursive spells and cards that I can get back on their own from the yard, so grinding station looks much better. That being said, the artifact point still stands. I do like your idea so I may give it another whirl. I don't feel like I need more combos, but I am interested in it if it can get me consistent value. It seems much more likely to do that now. Thanks for the feedback

Metalwork colossus seems like a reasonable idea. May give that a shot. For me, plunderer feels really clunky in the build I have. It doesn't feel like it does much for a four drop unless I have all the cards that kind of already win. You maybe right about fireweaver. Nadiers nightblade and marionette master do enough there. Those you don't really need to go infinite with to win. Bitter Reunion is just a good card so that's not a bad line. I have also put in Dogged Detective as a more general value Squee impersonation. It does go infinite but it does help with consistency for interaction. There's probably a few others. I'll actually go through the deck and update. Thanks for the input!

To be honest, I have probably won just as many games with the tortured existence/Phyrexian reclamation loops with dockside as I have with clock of omens combos. It's really easy to put together, and all the cards in the combo are just good efficient cards you want anyway. So I would highly recommend it.

@@HighlanderHipster I've been continuing to work on the list over the last week since I made that comment. I ended up cutting the plunderer as well once I found Ruthless Technomancer. Technomancer is basically a better tortured existence since you can entomb+reanimate it making it easier to find. It has similar combo lines with dockside and, at least in my list, provides two additional win conditions when you've gone infinite tokens with reanimating Voldaren Epicure or a sacrifice target for Lord of the Forsaken over and over. Lord of the forsaken also has finite combos with underworld breach+dockside. Even though the combos are finite, as long as you started the combo with a decent sized graveyard, you should be able to win. I also added Goblin bombardment. It's an additional wincon and sometimes removal but more importantly it's protection for Dockside, Manufactor and Technomancer. This slot may be better served with Phyrexian Altar or Ashnod's Altar though, the extra wincon isn't necessary and pinging creatures seems redundant with Asmo. Another new card you might want to consider in the land slot is The Mycosynth Gardens. Gives you a backup Cookbook or a second manufactor. I'm still not sold on the Disciple of the Vault effects; Mayhem Devil, Marionette Master, Nadier's nightblade, Fireweaver, Glinthorn Buccaneer etc. These cards all seem like such bad top decks when you're running out of steam. Thanks again for the video! I really enjoyed it and it gave me some really good ideas, hopefully I can repay the favor and give some good ideas back.

@@jayjayhooksch1 I definitely got gardens in immediately haha. I agree the pingers are small potatoes. However, I have found myself having to grind out more honest wind and I like that as a back up option at least for casual. If I was all in and trying to truly make the deck as powerful as possible, I would agree with the suggestions you have. I would also do worldgorger lines (easy to discard and I already run all the combo cards with it). With worldgorger you at the very least get infinite like with just daredevil. If you have anything else like the manufacturer, you just win. I really want to cut sculpting steel because it's so clunky, but it feels necessary.

@@HighlanderHipster Sculpting Steel and Voltaic Servant were cards I held onto for a long time as well but I eventually just decided that I could live with only 1 cookbook activation per turn. I did end up cutting them though when I added a bit more recursion for cookbook (I run welder, engineer, trash for treasure and Daretti). I ended up cut Sculpting Steel and Voltaic Servant for a Salvaging Station package. It's decent enough in the deck since it combos with Cat/Oven/Clock for infinite drain and as I said said it can buy back cookbook or oven in a pinch, but mostly it's just a pet card. The package is Salvaging Station, Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Conjurer's Bauble and Lotus Bloom. Worldgorger looks sick in your list with the pingers and animate dead. I'm going to think it over and how it interacts with my list, thanks for the heads up!

Hey I appreciate the kind words! I'm not done yet. I've had a lot of life stuff going on. I moved, new job, etc. I am hoping to be back on the content train soon™.

Thanks I appreciate it! I agree with your sentiment. It's ok to have a few win more cards in a deck in general, because in commander they can cascade into a win much more quickly than you otherwise would have. But as soon as you fall behind they are dead, as you mentioned. So if you did include cards like those, I limit it to like 2 max.