23:59 if the master sword was able to correct itself from the void timline to the original then why doesnt it still retain any of the power from the main timline. Its a timless sword so regardless of a separate timline it should share the power between no matter how many years have passed otyer wise it wouldnt have been able to correct itself and still have demises soul in it in the present of skyward sword

@17:16 is it even possible for there to be slumbering void Zelda if when we deafeat demise its at the same time that Hylia is putting her plan into place? Like you said shed either still be a goddess or in some sort of limbo and with demise gone there would be no need to reincarnate in that timeline

Gnight

How 😂

It's nice to find somebody finally bring up the timeline brach in Skyward Sword and how Demise was killed way way earlier which would have caused a ton of changes. Of note, there's actually a couple things about Demise and the demons I've noticed the larger Zelda community seems unaware of. In Skyward Sword, particularly in the original japanese, there's some terminology that doesn't get properly localized. The Demons are explicitly described as a "tribe" not a "race" and the even the usage of the word Demon doesn't quite aline with our more literal western idea of what a biblically based demon is. If you take a look at all previous instances of "demons" throughout Zelda, you start to notice some patterns. There doesn't appear to be any particular racial traits shared across all demons. Even horns and wings are case by base. Additionally we have examples of Demon kings and Lords who seem to descend from other races. Vaati was Minish, but the forms he takes seem to align with Demon Lords and Kings, one of his forms is even called Vaati's Wrath, Like Majora's Wrath. Ghirihim is a sword spirit, like Fi who otherwise has no claim to any genetic or biological demonic heritage and yet calls himself "Demon Lord". Batroux, the demon of Skyloft desires to become human and does so through Gratitude crystals, While Ganondorf becomes a Demon King upon acquiring a secret stone. Basically, It suggests Demons are not a distinct genetic race, but rather a kind a magical state of being. Anyone can become a "Demon" and "Lord" and "KIng" are ranking achieved depending on how powerful a demon you are. And Demons can become humans given certain conditions are met. One can become a Demon through acts of extreme magic and evil, and a demon can become human through acts of magic and goodness. In other words, there's no evidence to suggest one has to be born a demon or that demons are a distinct species with collective traits. Demons are a tribe of powerful, evil magic users who can come from any race. It's also worth noting that despite the popular narrative created by fans, theres is never any mention of a "demonic realm" from which they originate from. Skyward Sword says they emerged from the ground, but it's never described as "from another plane of existence or realm". Botw's map goes out of its way to designate a massive bone like fissure in the earth as "The breach of Demise", and as we know from TOtk, underneath Hyrule proper is the Depths, where Ganondorf is sealed. Additionally, "Demise" is not actually the given name of the Demon King in Skyward Sword. His title is "Bringer of Demise" which was shortened in localization, with other languages using similar terminology. In other-words, his actual name is never directly spoken aloud. SO. All that having been said, My theory is that Ganondorf as seen in TOTk IS demise. not a reincarnation, he is the original Demon King, the Bringer of Demise. And in the original timeline, He would have succeeded in killing Rauru and Sonia and waged his war, leading to Hylia's intervention. The reason why the sealing Spike was driven into Demise's forehead, is because that's where Ganondorf's secret stone was. But because Zelda popped in from a possible future, that timeline was averted.

This pretty much gives a "how" and a "what do we call it" to the skyward split theory. But I really love how Echoes of Wisdom is also a misfit mishmash in the timeline and uses all the terms you're using. Echoes, Null, Void... Nintendo knows. They're playing us all like a fiddle. We'd might as well call the Legend of Zelda a time travel series at this point. Time travel in Ocarina, time travel in Majora's Mask, time travel in Oracle, time travel in Skyward, time travel in Tears... Now that there's so much lore, and so much of that lore is rooted in time travel, it's a time travel series, and everything that ensues is just consequences.

what game is this? I feel like I played this as a kid

Nice shirt

Bro, stop making up timelines when we have basically everything laid out for us not only by the devs, but IN GAME. We have an official placement for BotW/TotK: the end of the timeline. There are details to be filled in, sure, but it's set in stone.

I like this theory, personally i think the zonai are an evolution of the twili, they resettled sky loft islands that did not descend, and the dragon is orobouros, so its a similar loop to our childhood games, its a second founding following some of the history 10-20k years after OoT, somehow midna and her people left the twilight realm and likely transformed again after thousands of years, they descended similar to SS and from there on with ToTK being a call back to OoT and the child TL and the several possibilities, but at this point there been a way for the events of all games to happen.

Bro is cooked

Obligatory comment for the algorithm since I forgot to earlier

Void session?

Odd that you assume the future they return to after defeating Demise is unchanged. You see, throughout Skyward Sword, we see the use of timeshift stones which allow for controlled alterations of limited spaces of past time, with corpses of long dead enemies springing back to life and crumbling back to bones as you move the stones around. The enemies being in a different position didn't alter where they were originally, nor does destroying the past enemy mean that there were never bones, even though those bones are gone now. This is because the time traveler, Link, is performing the actions, and the time shift stone is changing the present in real time to compensate for the changes in the past. Presumably someone not directly involved with the timeshift stones would have never seen the bones. Similarly, when Link grew the tree, Groose always recalled the tree being present in the future, but, for some reason no one thought to pick the fruit until Link returned from the past after having planted the tree. Individuals in the future seem to fail to act on changes made in the past until those changes reach the future. And what do we see after the three times travelers return from defeating Demise? The citizens of Skyloft, who had previously been unable or unwilling to even try to go to the surface suddenly decided that it was a good time to fly down, almost as if they only just then realized that there had never been anything stopping them. The world was changed, but only the time travelers remembered. What is even more fun is that if a given time traveler perceives another time traveler's changes as causal loops and their own as active shifts, then it is likely that Zelda saw the Tree of Life and the Complete Master Sword in the Sealed Temple when she first arrived on the surface, but either had no reason or no capacity to act on them (in the same way Link had no reason or capacity to mess with Impa's bracelet or Zelda's chrystal before they became relevant).

It's the LEGEND of Zelda. I feel like that word can be used to excuse any inconsistencies or plot holes. As if what we play through are retellings distorted by time. Not to say I don't enjoy the fan theories, they're creative and fun. But I think it's clear the lore takes the backseat to everything else as far as Nintendo is concerned. They usually show care for the individual stories, but have little regard for connecting them. A bit unrelated but something that bothers me about the series is that it shows other lands/alternate worlds for 1 game each, then forgets they exist. Termina Lorule Holodrum Labrynna New Hyrule Different histories, dieties, and technological advancement. Plenty of potential for new stories.

Couldn't agree more

Bro really said

This is the most riveting gameplay I've ever seen

relatable

Ever since we got the reveal of Ocarina of Time's timeline split I thought Skyward Sword would have the same effect, with Demise creating the cursed cycle of rebirth in the past and the Triforce wish destroying him in the present. It makes perfect sense to me that BotW and TotK would take place in that new branch. The idea that the Hylians in Skyloft evolved into Zonai is a really good one. And your explanation for that version of the Master Sword being weaker makes incredible sense too. This is solid stuff and is my head canon.

Always the best!

I've been saying this since TotK came out - thank you for getting this one out there. I don't know if you consider it important considering that you did find explanations for them, but the Master Sword and bracelet could possibly be made of timeshift stone, explaining their ability to transcend timelines since timeshift stones create a stable loop. My favourite part of this idea is how it places the TotK memories in parallel with the events of OoT, so I'm super pleased you covered that. It just feels so much more narratively satisfying than 'uh I guess Ganondorf can reincarnate now and also Hyrule got founded again and suddenly everyone's forgotten the Golden Goddesses and remembered Hylia.'

This is a bit long... Sorry lol Personally, I'm under the belief that while there should be a timeline split due to the Demise Battle, I don't think BOTW or TOTK are in that split. I personally really like the idea that Minish Cap, Four Swords, and Four Swords Adventures are there instead. One really great bit of evidence is simply the existence of the Piqori Blade, and no mention of the Master Sword. The thought process goes as what if, since Link travels back in time to defeat Demise, there would be no reason for anyone to forge the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword via the 3 Springs of Power, and therefore the Piqori Blade - and subsequently the Four Sword - is just the Goddess Sword, forged with four different elements as opposed to the Springs of Power. That would have Skyward Sword lead directly into OOT, and that gap between may not be as long as many people believe. Now, I also believe BOTW and TOTK take place in the Fallen Timeline, but with there being a bit of a caveat. That being TOTK is the reason the Fallen Timeline split exists in the first place. Hear me out; Zelda travels back in time to just before the events OOT would be, before that game's Zelda or Link have even been conceived. Zelda is stuck there for at least a few years, because frankly, I can't believe all of what happened occurred within a week, or even a year. Anyway, Zelda's mere existence in this time shifts some events around, and Ganondorf now becomes obsessed with the power of the Secret Stones rather than the Triforce after having seen the destructive power just one stone provides its wielder. Ganondorf swears fealty to the kingdom of Hyrule, then plots the usurpation of Rauru. Now comes the Imprisoning War, still near around the same spot in the Timeline, now being caused by Zelda's interference, rather than Link simply perishing in OOT (Cause frankly, if thats the reason the timeline split, there should be an extra split in the timeline for every potential death in every Zelda time travel storyline, and that's just super messy. If OOT Link dies and creates another timeline, why doesn't Zelda 2 launch into a timeline with "Return of Ganon" being the literal fail state?) Ganondorf is sealed via Rauru's spell-hand-thing, but Rauru himself isn't dead, not yet at least. Zelda becomes a dragon, and keeps the Master Sword with her to bathe it in holy light. Rauru, before truly dying and after he severed his hand (Because why is only his hand left after 10k years? Even if its casting a spell, that thing should be shriveled up way more than it is, or fading away like a candle stick, considering the fact the rest of his body is just gone) uses the Triforce to erase the knowledge of the Zonai's existence from the memories of all the residents in Hyrule, firstly making the Zonai retroactively seen as Hylian all along, secondly keeping the Secret Stones a secret once again, and thirdly rewriting history to make it seem Ganondorf was after the Triforce all along in the memories of the people. Every time Ganon appears after this, it's just a manifestation of Ganondorf's Malice or Gloom, never taking shape of the man, only the Man Demon Pig. Ganondorf's only hope is for his puppet Ganon to retrieve the Triforce to release his seal, use the blood of the Goddess, or to wait for it to faulter like in TOTK. This would make the entire Fallen Timeline a causal loop, and would explain the existence of the Mirror of Twilight, since it was made before OOT, and why there are a TON of Fallen Timeline enemies, locations, and why the Hero of the Wild tunic is reflective of that timeline. What this sadly doesn't explain is the Rito and Zora races existing at the same time... unless the Rito in BOTW and TOTK are evolutions of the loft wings...? They are much more bird-like than in Windwaker, and frankly do look a lit like the loft wings imo. As for the rock salt, it's everywhere in BOTW and TOTK, but there was a time there was a much larger sea before the events of Skyward Sword, so maybe the seas had once been much higher? Maybe during the creation of the world, Din created the ocean first, then raised land from that sea? Idk, I personally really like this timeline theory as it feels narratively satisfying, at least to me. I know it may seem like a stretch for Rauru's use of the Triforce spanning across timelines, retroactively switching the Zonai with Hylians for all of time, but anything is really possible in this series. Open to hear about your thoughts on this theory, tho

Good one

That mankey is probably 10 feet under now

Honestly. This timeline split makes the most sense to me. The only contradicting part would when Zelda says calamity Ganon gave up on reincarnation… but honestly that doesn’t make sense with tears of the kingdom anyways lol

I didn't really understand the moment/reasoning of this proposed Timeline Split so I didn't really understand the rest. Can someone clarify?

It's a damn good thing that the gods are so active in this universe. All that time travel would have torn it apart by now.

The Master Sword in this timeline would have to be the paradoxical one from Skyward Sword. The White Sword of the Sky is the only Legacy / amiibo weapon that cannot be restored by a Bargainer, and instead MUST be restored by the Mother Goddess Statue, which is the original one from Skyloft. It’s likely this Timeline’s original Goddess Sword and the core reason why I put the Calamity Trilogy in its own Timeline(s), either a Skyward Sword branch or post Hyrule Warriors 1 Time Crash.

An interesting thought experiment but a stretch for me. I still don't get what issues people have with Skyward Sword's time travel when we see similar discrepancies throughout the series. Besides the reaching I can't personally accept, it was a good video and was good to think about. Very clear and well put together! A surprisingly rare thing for Zelda Timeline videos. Like with most timeline stuff, I'll definitely keep mulling it over. Thanks for the interesting watch!

I think it's important to note that there are at least four Goddesses, namely Nayru, Din, Farore, and Hylia with the potential for there to be more.

I will never not enjoy Zelda fans theorizing over the lore and timeline of a franchise that was essentially made up as the creators went along.

Every Zelda timeline theory always brings me back to the same conclusion… they made it up to sell more copies of the Historia and their is no Zelda timeline and no developer cares about it even a little bit 😂

6:40 In Wind Waker, it's explained that when Link traveled back to warn Zelda, his piece of the Triforce was left behind and shattered. That's why we have to collect its peices in Wind Waker.

This is an old theory. The Skyward Split theory is correct though.

Look at them pikmin go

By far the best and most consistent approach on the timeline placement of the new games. Keep it going.

Nice Video.

I think TOTK created it's own timeline thanks to Zelda being poofed to the past. Either that, or the BOTW timeline no longer exists, overwritten by TOTK.

I don't think the triforce is affected by time

Nice

I always felt like there should be a timeline split in skyward but never heard anyone else mention it so I’m glad to hear this discourse

There's one thing that busts this theory wide open. Sonia is of the goddess's blood, as are BotW Zelda and her entire line, but if Hylia never became SS Zelda and SS Zelda never got with Link and remained a goddess, then the Hyrulean Royal Family simply wouldn't exist and there would be no need for them anyways.

Great video. Ever since totk came out I've assumed it and breath of the wild had their own timeline. I always assumed it was caused by zelda going back in time but that didn't make sence since the zonai where already there. Your theory makes a lot of sense and I hope it is right.

This is so well made i didn’t even check your subscriber count until i finished I just assumed you had like 50k+ given the quality of this video. Hats off you earned a subscriber.

on 2016 breath of the wild fits perfectly after zelda 2 with the yiga clan and the clamaity starting on the decline era. 2018 since everyone and their mom appears to be obsessed with wind waker being important to botw , nintendo name drops a popular fan theory know as "the unification of the timelines" and uses this as a basis for totk story 2023 totk replaces and retcons any event that may connect this to the fallen version of ocarina of time and thus , creates a new decline era and let us imagine what exactly happen for anything taking place on this 2 games to be possible. aka , its a what if ; and it doesn't relate with any point in the story ; its not a new timeline ; and frankly it might still be the fallen hero era or even the adult timeline with "fixed" points in time making the events of the fallen timeline and the decline to happen again.

I like that this theory co-aligns with the new official timeline that shows the new games in their own line. With Botw and Totk in their own line, but still placed after the event of everything shows us that it is still progressing forward in time, but something went really wrong somewhere, most likely related to bad time traveling habits. Plus the idea of things reappearing from those series that shouldn't have been in botw or totk at all being a cause of "echoes" from the other timelines is also crazy, because that would mean the sole reason Zelda was specifically sent back 10,000 years to the new beginning of Hyrule was to actually fix a hole in the timeline, of which may have been time's way of patching the holes made from skyward sword and ooc in one go? But I feel like that idea is missing a point or two.

I'm 1:32 into the video and I'm glad someone finally said it, you already earned the like

I will note, the Time Travel in Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time are _identical_ in function. They're both a type of Predestination... save for a single example of Self-correction when an empowered plant is involved (Magic Beans in OoT, and Fruit of the Tree of Life in Skyward Sword), and a single example of Self-correction at the very end when a timeshift stone is used and stays behind while the traveler returns to the time period they came from (Zelda using the Ocarina to send Link back _and keeping the ocarina with her_ in OoT, and Link using the Gate of Time while _leaving the Master Sword behind_ in Skyward Sword). The Time Travel in Tears of the Kingdom appears to work similarly (the mural is entirely there from the get-go, after all!), but we never get to test if it self-corrects because we don't do any of the time travel ourselves.

Unfortunately Miyamoto confirmed that Breath of the Wild happens after Ocarina of time. As well as forgetting that the sheikah had to exist and they came to existence in Ocarina of Time