Ooh, I like the concept of this! *turns on to listen while I paint*

Ah shipping freaks. Yeah this shits a dislike

This is a clear example of trying to make dean Winchester gay or bisexual is really sad I like this video though as a fanfiction video trying to explain something very no possible

How can a show be so gay and so homophobic at the same time

This is what is wrong with u sjw when u even have queen characters u still aren't fucking happy. U still bitch about it. I swear u can't even be happy when they change a character into something he never was like penguin.

How can you be mad that most of lgbt are villains. When villains arethe point of the show Thisshow ismoreabout the villains than it is about the heroes. The entirety of the show follows thevillains moreso than anyone else. The portrayal wasnt perfect and i admit some of the points made are valid. But the lgbt being mostly villains makes more sense in the show because its about villains

With the exception of the stupid Fake-Kringle thing, i really like the way they played the relationship with Penguin and Riddler. I didn't want to see them actually get together. The whole world this exists in is that almost no one gets a happy ending. Sure, in the end, Gordon marries Leigh. But that's an exception. Prior to that, ALL the characters, including very single hero, gets potential love ruined, over and over again, including Gordon and Leigh. Beyond that, it made it more interesting that they never did get together. In the 80's and 90's, there was a stereotype in TV shows of a will-they-or-won't-they with characters. But in every single instance, once they DO hook up, the show gets bad. Every time. So, i didn't want to see anyone in Gotham reach that. Frankly, i don't like that Gordon and Leigh finally got together, but at least they did it at the very end. Oh, and in case you didn't read my other comments, i say all this as a queer person.

As a queer person myself, i don't think Gotham was homophobic at all. What i do find awful is that almost all of the women characters on the show absolutely sucked ass. They were mostly written with little depth, and relied on the current trope of "sexy woman says sexy, menacing things, so woman now strong badass." VOMIT. All the male characters were written so much more complex and interesting. Barbara and Fish being the absolute worst. Selena was given a much better story than most of the other women, but she was the exception.

For all its faults, Gotham is one of the best DC Comics shows to ever air. Finally, a show written by adults, for adults. It's light years better writing than the plothole-ridden Arrowverse shows, written for melodramatic 12 year old girls. And yes, i binged every season of every Arrowverse show, and they ALL were so, so bad.

100% agree with you amazing video ❤

I love your video 100% agree with u

The moment you said it was disappointing, I turned you off. ALOT of us LIKED the ending. The ONLY ending there could be. Even Jensen who did not like it at first, explained his VERY SOUND reasons for WHY the show HAD TO END the way it did.

Becky being a depiction of the fans was spot on. This is the same fan group that shipped brothers, dean and castiel, and countless others to feed their delusion and over-sexualization

Really?...who cares.

I’m so MAD

I stopped watching the show around season 11 for how wild they handled everything. I’m finally revisiting it this year to finish it out. Great video

😂 lmbo

I'm not gonna lie, I don't really mind the ending at all. I still think Swan Song is a better ending but this one isn't as bad as everyone tries to make it seem. Edit: Mentioning the literal murder witch in their found family roster and still shitting on John for being a bad father is crazy 💀

The execs and show runners were trying to convince people cas and dean were straight, meanwhile the writers were queer coding both of them and putting cas into the narrative position of dean's love interest (not to mention crowley and benny lmao)

These two videos are so good. I know they're both almost an hour long, but they feel both concise and relatively comprehensive. (Like you said, if you really went into everything, we'd be here for days.) Thank you so much for taking the time to put them together. I watched them when you first put them up years ago, and they felt so cathartic. It was like you took the best snippets of my tumblr dash and organized them together into a more easily consumable format. lol. And three years later, these videos are still so soothing to watch. Thanks again!

can't believe both supernatural and sherlock had such similar deny-every-theme-ever-existed show twists, wtf

It's not the writers or showrunners fault. The reason why the last episode was so empty, was because of covid. Jensen was doing the interview circuit afterwards and mentioned that they wanted to have more people from the shows history, but Covid restrictions were too much to have so many people travel from all parts of the industry.

I Ship Bruce With Jerome And Jeremiah And They Mishandled Their Relationship

what about barbara and montoya's relationship? its one of the first plot points in the series....

Just like there are few examples of queerbaiting as popular as Destiel, there must be few examples of the supernatural fandom "internalizing misogyny" and I find it an odd note to include in the video without anything to support or tie it in. I am a white male so I don't really believe in concepts like internalized misogyny due to their overuse, and some further explanation would be a help!

i was SOOO obsessed with these two when i was watching the show, and genuinely so upset about how they ended up. it took years for me to finally watch season 5 tbh... honestly if they had gotten together but then were toxic and kept breaking up and getting back together, i think that would have been so much better than what we actually got

I loved and agreed with 95% of this video. However..... I've been watching supernatural since it's first air date in 2005 back on the WB. Dean and Sam have been a huge influence in my life. That being said... I'm in shock of the stupidity most SN fans have when it comes to "Destiel". It's really sad to see how much humans reach the narrative to fit thir own lives. I dont believe Dean is gay. However, he may be curious. But the reaching most fans did to give life to the Destiel theory is sad. There's more evidence of Dean being straight or bi, than actually gay. Jensen, first, literally said he does not approve of that idea. And now that he doesn't want to offend his fans or fans of the show, he stays quiet about his opinion, people make it out to be that "Jensen came back around to that idea". You guys are delusional. First off, most of you have ZERO understanding of what LOVE truly even means. As most of you saw Dean and Cas relationship has a slow coming out relationship, I saw two best friends who love each other, NOT in a gay way. You can say I love you to your friend and not have sexual attachment. You can die for your friend and not want to fuck them. Not only that, Dean and Cas definitely shared some interesting moments, and yes some of them were acted gay on purpose for comedic affect. It literally blows my mind how blind most of you are to the understanding of what TRUE LOVE means.

The funniest accidental Destiel moment to me is in Kripke-era Season 4, so literally from the jump! Dean and Cas' relationship is shown parallel to Sam and Ruby's relationship - the two brothers are going down these separate paths, and Cas and Ruby respectively are the ones leading them there. But Sam and Ruby are sexually involved, and Dean and Cas are just two buddies. And this continues to happen for the next eleven seasons! Sam and his love interest will foil Dean and one of his "good guy friends" (usually Cas) PERFECTLY lmao #DennyTruther Also this is second-hand knowledge, but I listen to Ghostfacers, which is a (very funny!) SPN rewatch podcast, and the two hosts and many of their guests actually talk about early marketing for the show. I wasn't aware of it back in the early days, but multiple people and the hosts all mention that it was very much advertised as "hot guys, sexy show" and say it seemed directed more towards women and really mis-portrayed of the show. No idea if that's an accurate read, but I think it's interesting to think about the idea that the show was marketing to women from the beginning.

Hey why sis you say the thing about it being embarrassing that Supernatural is your favourite show. It's not a bad show, at all, in fact is very fucking good, i dont know why some people like to shit on it for being "stereotypical" or whatever, but its not, its just a way of telling the story like a soap opera with a lot of gore. That was the intention, not something to feel embarrassed about the show. And a lot of people loved it and it ran for 15 season so obviously it worked very well

I don't get it so Eileen was deaf but would it have really mattered if her character wasn't like would they really be a difference not to mention if she's a hunter you don't think that kind of disability would really be disadvantaged towards her and most cases obviously not against the banshee they took on but like in 99% of the other cases it would be bad or is it just cuz it was diversity equity inclusion you know that DEI thing

Think about the main theme song they'll be peace when you are done It was true for Dean it was his last job for Sam same thing One died while one lived there was peace for both of them one ultimately went out the way he only thought he would and the other lived the life they always wanted peaceful

The one thing that would make Cas truly happy, that one thing he wants that he cant have, is for Dean to see himself as Cas sees him. Not as a killer but as good, caring, and loving man. Dean's lack of self worth has been central to his character arc. In the end of the series, we see him finally able to accept that he's worth something, that he's not just a killer, that he can experience grief without self-flaggelation, without killing himself to get him back. Plus Jack was in charge of things now. But this is why the pie festival scene is massive, full-circle character development for Dean.

Dean never had "homoerotic" undertones with Benny. Omg. Have you never read about war or watched war movies? Cop shows? Its called a foxhole buddy. Guys who've experienced the trauma of war form very intimate (non-sexual) relationships with one another. Men can be intimate with one another without it being sexual. Hugging, sharing feelings, missing each other, grieving loss, none of that screams gayness. What made it weird with Cas (and the writers took full advantage) was he was otherworldly. The strangness of being best friends and foxhole buddies with an otherworldy being explains all perceived "subtext."

This show imitates life well. Life is a tragedy. It’s a series of struggles with glimpses of hope and love. Peace will only be when we are done.

Penguin and Riddler both had almost no relationships or friendships to speak of before the Gotham TV show (besides penguin being a creepy womanizer in other animated depictions.) I find it extremely satisfying that they explored that extensively in this show, but also mad that they never got a confirmed relationship, though they obviously wanted that problem to be fixed by having the two "loneliest" characters be together.

The first few seconds genuinely pissed me off, because I found this show to be life changing, and made many characters I had never heard of before my absolute favorites.

the reason destiel will never happen is because jensen will never agree to play dean as gay

And not everything has to include gays it’s a old show with writing of villains in mind it’s not star trek

My god you guys need to grow up…stop trying to find issues with everything and enjoy what you can in life jeez this cancel culture

This video is a few years old, and the moment referenced is much older, but the moment screenshotted at 27:10 never fails to make me spiral. Before this poor person could even get their question out, Jensen heard the words "your character" and "bisexual" in too close a proximity and lost his fucking mind. I can't imagine the cognitive dissonance it takes to shoot all of season 8 (let alone the whole show) and then turn around and act like this to queer fans who picked up what was so obviously being put down for us.

Say what you want about this show but I still absolutely LOVE Cory Michael Smith's Riddler performance. A lot of people have said before to me that "Oh, comic Riddler is too goofy to work in live action" and I feel like Cory's Riddler manages to find the perfect balance for me

idk they could have been balls deep apparently

And yea, I think it's so clear that Dean's arc ended in retirement and Sam's arc ended in leadership and Men of Letters work. My wife and I were so upset watching the finale lol

Yo, his response to dude hitting on him was so beautifully gay. I feel like its exactly the scene I'd write if I wanted to show my character was bi, but didn't want to say it out loud

Gods that recap of the final episode brings me back to when me and my friends were on voice call together, and my friend ruby was like "No... no, there's no way, there's no way they're doing this." as Dean was dying. The rest of us were just in silent disbelief as the fact that they were in fact they were really actually killing dean via rebar sank in over the 10 minutes. Dark days, dark days. 18:20: this is exactly how I felt phrased so well I nearly cried 4 years on.

They should have gotten at least a season (even a 10-episode one) with them loving truly and freely and then, maybe, dying in a logical way. GOD I'll never forgive them for the mess.

19:40 oh nooooo IT IS a tragedy 😭

i just loved when we used to interact with Tze, he was as annoyed with the queerbait and homophobia as we were. Also, in regards to isabella, it was implied that it was the court of owls, if i remeber correctly, there was something on the lines of "they´re getting powerful, we need to do something about that" and then isabella shows up

Thank you for making this essay, you've totally nailed all the points that i personally had floating in my noggin when hearing SPN's ending. Thank God for fanfics 😢 is all i can say. They could've made media history.

This is great, I finished the season yesterday and this echoed so many of my thoughts towards it all. Your analysis of Dean was so good it made me cry