I think it a bit rich when an earlier coloniser/occupant complains about a latter day coloniser/occupant doing the same on the same basis.

What is there to reconcile? The document assures the population that under the law all are equal unless we are reconciling all the attempts that have been subsequently made to undermine that equality and establish some form of supremacy?

What is to resolve? The document established equality under the law for all citizens which under a democracy is all that is required though it requires those citizens to embrace it. Those that feel they warrant more than equality do not wish democracy but rather supremacy and so their attitude is little but destructive of democracy.

The land is not gone! The nature of its occupation has changed!

Thanks Kawharu Trust for this enlightening expose; Bishop Kito is an excellent, intelligent speaker and craftsman of ‘words of art’, then interpreting and presenting them as any good seller of that colour ‘snake oil’; Like Kito, We too have spent all Our life from being raised as a toddler on Rin’atu marae and then went to school and church in Central Auckland-Ponsonby-Mt Eden-Tirahou, to studying the Bible at Mt Eden, Grey Friars, then with Kawerau JWs; these organisations are occult as necessary to survive and so much salt should be liberally applied to dampen the reverb of their own echo chamber [Cf. Evidence Act 2006, s.60; New Zealand Birth Certificate, BDM107, WARNING and Caution; Electoral Act 1993, s.215; Baptismal Certificate #29];

Man made Religions Baptist -John Smyth, Pentecostal -Charles Barham, Mormon-Joseph Smith , Jehovah Witness -Charles Russell, 7th Day Adventist - William Millar, Catholic -Romans, Church of England. Christianity and their wyte gesus- start of ws, Enslaved every Indigenous Peoples throughout the world. Revelation 1-14-16 kjv. Psalms 55-21 kjv Ecclesiasticus 12-10 kjv.

TheLand is not gone! the nature of its occupancy has changed, whic was done by agreement.

The treaty has the potential to be NZs Magna Carta were the community mature and disciplined enough. But there exist too many indications that the populace has not the maturity to stand on its own two feet yet. Exampled by people thinking sophistication and complexity can advance the concept of democracy when in reality its effects undermine and damage the concept rather than endorse it. Democracy has to remain simple to work and be effective, it will never be perfect but always be preferable to other forms of government. We will never have a strong resilient democracy pandering to our frailties and weaknesses.

For a lecture one the dangers of crossing the sacred with the mundane, I am surprised the warnings are not heeded when considering integrating Māori tikanga with English law.

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXnNh596eNKYfbs

Te koutou katoa... ...whanau, whanau, haere mai te toki- hui e, haumi e, tae eke nei, tihei mauri ora.... ...we need to sever respectfully from the British monarchy, and remain loyal Commonwealth members. So Tangata Tiriti can realise and enact their own form of sovereignty. To counterbalance and to uplift tinorangatiratanga... ... ka puta the whakatauki tuku iho mai Governor Hobson. E ki atu Hone Heke- "He iwi kotahi tatou." E whai atu te kotahitanga, te whakawhanaungatanga, te hoatanga...

Is nu tireni a transliteration?

Why so nervous, and why so grave?

If by destroying Maori culture we mean the ending of slavery, infanticide, tribal warfare and cannabilism, this has to be thought a positive right? As the thinkers became more sociological in their outlook, they lost the old normative distinction between savagery and civilization. Civilization was also equated in our New Zealand context as colonization [hence a Wakefield could write 'The Art of Colonization']. Now, in the wake of the cognitive revolution that has been wrought upon us, colonization has been turned on its head from a positive to a negative. I guess Rousseau was the father of all of this nonsense. The problem with all of this sort of thing is the projection of our own current political prejudices condescendingly onto the past... instead of appreciating the past in its own terms, which is to do history. As Vico stated long ago, fantasia, imagination, the willingness to 'travel' is required for this. The problem with Selwyn, Hadfield and Martin is that they were too idealistic [as some of our modern commentators are also]. Back in the day, statesmen had a state and country to build, and this relied more on practical as opposed to theoretical reason. The niceties of theory were moderated [not obliterated] by actual conditions of the time. As for the governors, Hobson and Fitzroy were likewise too idealistic [in the pocket of the missionaries/ CMS], Grey and Gore-Brown much better statesmen as pragmatic. Williams/ the missionaries only translated the treaty. Hobson and Busby wrote it... Busby having had some practice with the earlier Declaration. Interesting histories on Hadfield and Selwyn. Thanks~ "Te Atiawa had long been one of the most law-abiding and peace-loving tribes." Was this not the same tribe that in alliance with Ngati Toa rampaged through the lower North Island and upper South Island the decade or so before the signing of the treaty to utterly destroy other tribes??

My wife's family were missionaries in Fiji. "Civilising'' or colonising? A lot of mistakes made- but also changes and advantages. Where does that take us- as Fijians come in force to seek work in Aotearoa to find that the wider church with large influence has practically died out here? Applications here- from Waitangi south. New theology? Different community scope? Who knows...?

Why are the comments BLOCKED!

What’s to reconcile? It established equality under the law, who wants more than that?

Kia ora...

What is to reconcile? The original colonists were taken over by latter day colonists. The latter day colonists offered equality under the law which was accepted.

Rather more is being made of the trearty, unjustifiably than ever was intended.

The treaty will be dissolved

The treaty will be dissolved

Yeah,…nah; sadly this ‘professor’ is exactly one of those intelligencia and teacher types who attract the first reprisals during any societal revolution; a “ …useful idiot”, as Stalin recommended; persons full of ‘artful words’ and pen warriors whose only appeal is to their own predisposed audience, stashed into a siloed echo chamber of institutional elitism; after all, “a dog does not bite the hand that feeds”, adage;

When I read the treaty i saw no more assurance than that of equality under the law. The document has to be read in its entirety, not clause by clause else the document becomes meaningless. Māori had no sovereignty, they had occupation at the cultural development level that Galbraith in “the Anatomy of Power” refers to as condine or the most elemental simple form, barely above simple physical strength. I doubt the powers that were at the time would have been able to offer anything more than equality under the law else the latter day colonisers would not have come .

Tikanga Maori on YOUR OWN LAND not public or private pfft Chiefs chose Christianity

Tikanga Christianity was and still is the best conduit of unity. The Gospel message was largely excepted under the 1st Maori flag a white one with Rongopai in black.

Legislation should not be used in any way whatsoever to impose restrictions on public places for spiritual/sacred/religious reasons. If groups of people choose to voluntarily observe such matters that is their business, however secular citizens have a right to ignore them. This country is not a theocracy.

boring boring GEEK..

Just another bad white man perspective like a broken record that shouldnt continue to be highlighted without highlighting the cruel systems of tribal lifestyle. That woman is obviously pagan with no positive view on anything, a wiman succumbed to white guilt.

What is she on is it P

WTF Slavery got do with the treaty?

Greedy sneaky BHEADS

I have heard so many speakers with their perspectives on our history and its a mess tbh no one alive today could possibly conclude anything because theres too many variations on why decisions were made, its utterly unsacred to even dare to say your version or take is the correct one, for this reason, The Treaty is what you make it just dont make any groups interpretation make it into law!

Fun fact: Treaty Chiefs warned their people NOT to start Political partys ok! We can see why, these expert historians NEVER mention the Chiefs words because they reveal what the Govt has done allowing Maori to become Political racists is a breach of the Treaty.

The Treaty cannot be discussed until the original final writ is brought forth from Te Papa museum why are they hiding it? The Tribunal is using a fake one

The guy said a lot but didnt really say anything

Did you know the one single word change in a text can totally alter the context, for example one draft of the Treaty says Maori cede 'their' Sovereignty another states 'Maori cede Sovereignty' 2 totally different things. 1st one implies Maori had Sovereignty already the 2nd implies acceptance of a Sovereign entity to rule. This is the problem with not using the true final draft that was translated from that states Maori ceded Sovereignty it should have been more clear by saying Maori agree to accept a Sovereign power indicating they didnt have such order as a nation according to world evolvement and trans crossing into other continents which everyone was free to do

Everyones sick of the plethora of perspectives, interpretations and analysis of the relic document where truth is so blurred its bringing hell on Earth! Why try to fix something that isnt broken by planting dark seeds of confusion, the sacred essence of what the Chiefs desired for their people is being bastardised by greedy racist radical Maori rebels and stupid historians and academics who cant explain it adequately to bring general agreeance.

The Treaty subject cannot be settled when the original final draft that was translated to Maori has been hidden away while an illegitimate sample draft and back translation is being used. Tragic, a waste of efforts debating fake scripts

Section 2.

Section 71 of the New Zealand Constitution Act 1852

Isn’t it about time that we talk about Multi Culturalism? The Treaty was wanted by Māori to stop the Musket Wars. Every ANZAC day the media in NZ go on and and on about the 28th Māori Battalion, no recognition about the 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd 24th, 26, 27 Pakeha battalions. The musket wars were horrible.

I've been raising this for the last 3 years here online.

Tangata Tiriti are a subset of the Treaty. Māori never ceded sovereignty therefore not a sharing of sovereignty.

The treaty was for many reasons sovereignty was a minor reason for both sides mostly it was for protection of all people Maori and Pakeha each from both. Pakeha from exploitation of other Pakeha and Maori and certainly we have family stories handed down of both types in my family. Also Maori from Maori eg invasion from other tribes (eg Musket wars) but also exploitative Pakaha (eg NZ Company)

1840’s handbrake? It was the Handbrake that stopped Māori killing Māori in the Musket wars! Pakeha and the Crown saved many Māori from other Māori!

"Assimilation of Māori into settler society was not the goal. Māori tribal government and custom were to be maintained under British sovereignty. Māori were recognised as full owners of all their lands according to custom." So why did Hobson shake the hand of each chief saying 'we are one people now'. Tribal government a pargmatic and transitional approach before the state could be strengthened and grown. Recognized customary ownership of land in order to sell surplus land to the Crown. All early colonial thought was about amalgamation [the logic of empire, which amalgamates peoples/ pre-nationalism].... despite what we like to think today.

Establishment puppet Soros sponsored lacky Paul Moon is trolleyed out again to delude us all again with his Treaty corruption. Hey Paul, get this, both the spirit and the principle of te Tiriti is: 'hi iwi tahi tatou' (we are now one people). Get used to it.

Written in the doctrine are the papal bulls, which were the three ways to claim sovereignty the first was by discoery,the second was conquest and the last was by a pact or treaty effectively the consent of the people

In school, i was taught that Cook discovered New zealand. i was shown how the treaty was signed ,but what i didn't learn was the attack on Gate Pa or the Battle of rua peka peka yet i still managed to learn all of our history and not just the sanitised pakeha version ,,,,now I'm 68 and learning about papal bulls ,terra nullius ,and inter caetera,and the dispicable doctrine I'm so glad i tuned in