I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! I think for enemy placement, you can take some inspiration from things like the Sonic Aural demo. Everyone loves the wall spindash :P Although that probably shouldn't be a ring-costing ability. With Sonic and Tails, the ring-costing abilities are usable almost anywhere and feel very freeform. A wall spindash would be limiting in comparison. I say keep Loud Lumber, maybe do something about the pits though. I don't think they have to be removed, just telegraphed somehow. I hope you do manage to fix the air dash, it's so good for your level design so far! Hey, remember Sonic Frontiers Final Horizon? Where Tails had that charged throw that left a platform of spinning wrenches he could fly into to reset his jump and fly again? You could do something similar but with the rings. The regular ring throw working as-is, and a charged one that costs maybe 10 rings. Could be great for Tails paths! I'm really looking forward to seeing what might come next!

I don't mean the jump specifically. I mean the overall game design. Like... The excessive dash hoops that can just be removed with proper controls and physics. I do know the tricks to gain distance with jumps, but they feel unintentional and I just don't like that. I feel like in Sonic GT specifically, the game is about making the world your own playground to enjoy all the movement options you have. Including enemies because of how Sonic's homing attack works. Like, it's one thing to make an obstacle course and another thing to make a playground. Obstacle courses are for you to do specific things in mostly a specific way. It's just two different ways to design things. In fact, we can compare and contrast the first level of GT (an open playground) with the last level (a linear obstacle course). You have to face each bit of the level largely the same way each time except for the room with the Eggman statue. As opposed to the first level where you have the rocks and rails at the top of the level or you can veer off to the side and run on the ocean for the first chunk of the game. And the movement system in that game doesn't break either level design style. Thank you for making me think a little more about this stuff. Part of why I do this is to learn to articulate and analyze a bit better.

Exactly! Glad my video made sense :)

Except that I don’t like spamdashing cuz it’s to easy. And outrunning the camera happens naturally in classic games very rarely.

Very good comment and fair points! I had a lot of trouble making this one because I wasn't sure if/when/where to contrast with regular gameplay clips because it wouldn't necessarily be pointing out anything specific aside from the most natural, obvious routes. I might need to make a followup to do that. About the hallway part, I think the flexibility in approach is simply better because why should I go through the same obstacles the same way every time? That's basically Shadow Generations. And it's not exactly easy to do the wall run method because you need to be going fast enough, gaining enough height along the way, and not bumping into anything. It's a platforming challenge of its own. There's even a part where the hall slightly narrows and you have to time your jump perfectly or be pushed off by the angle change. I still think the slope jumps I showed are part of the platforming because there are certain places you can only go be being fast enough to reach them. Sonic GT in general is a great example of this. I think what's lost in translation with some of the clips is that it IS harder to pull off a lot of these things. Simply because of the timing and angling. Although the upward Magnet Dashes may have been a bit much. You know, I think your stance on this mirrors my stance on the recent Zelda games. That level of freedom in those games doesn't work for me, and I want to o back to single-solution puzzles. But when the whole game is about movement like in Sonic-styled games, I appreciate some flexibility. ShadGen's level of air drag kills a lot of the fun for me because it looks weird and it makes everything more strict and scripted. Which is why even though I think the spear gliding also looks weird, it adds a level of flexibility that makes the levels more freeform. I just want some freedom of movement expression in these games. DMC but for movement instead of combat. Doom Wings are a good thing to bring up, but they feel more like a parallel to a super form, so it's supposed to be less restricted. Even then, I'd say it doesn't work all that well because of the very strict level design and limited control. That's a boring type of skipping everything to me. While in Spark, every second I'm making some kind of micro adjustment to my movement. It's engaging and it's tough to keep up, especially with the meter management throughout levels to keep up the speed. I will be making a video showing more regular gameplay though.

@@MarkerMurkerI feel like your missing the point of OBSTACLES An obstacle is placed there to slow you down in some way even without spear gliding a lot of people just like discovering their own paths. The argument is I don’t want to do the thing the same way but when I make a new route for myself I’ll probably use said route at least 13 times before I start making adjustments. Minor ones too. I play sonic gt and I’ve got myself some decent times. But playing the levels and making routes while fun isn’t as different as discovering dev intended routes. If you like the player expression more that’s fine good even everyone’s different But oversimplifying not letting you do whatever you want to railroading isn’t good criticism. In GT player expression and routing is increased and that can be difficult but even on my first playthroughs of the game I could dodge obstacles REALLY easily. Not all the time but a bit tooo far. Restrictions breed creativity imo like chaos controlling projectiles to find new paths in Sunset heights If you could just fly up tho the bridge with a boost jump it’s not as satisfying. IMO The fly over everything is valid criticism as to some people the player freedom takes away challenge that comes with restrictions. But said restrictions can limit player freedom feeling either way is fine

It does have a homing attack, it just works really differently and I didn't figure it out for most of this video :P A stomp might be nice though. Maybe overhaul it to work more like Spark 3's downward dash though.

That “ding” when Sonic gets up to speed and gets that red trail behind him is the indicator that a homing attack is available, encouraging a more continuous movement philosophy. Otherwise, seeing as this game is taking more cues from Sonic 3 than something like Spark 3 or Pizza Tower, I assumed bubble and fire shields would be available for bouncing and air-dashing. Although, a majority of the 3D Mario titles rely on gimmicks and mechanics adjacent to classic power-ups, so I can see why following in Mario’s footsteps and increasing Sonic’s mobility options in that way would be in order.

Agreed! I always try to highlight demos that I think need more recognition so devs can stay encouraged.

@@DigDannyBoy That's Sonic's homing attack animation in the Proto Sonic demo from this year's SAGE. I chose that because the way that homing attack works really stands out as a fun, fluid, controllable evolution. I guess it does kind of look like he's tunneling though

@@GGJonJon_real Could be a kid, sometimes they make fan games too. I just like the gameplay

Wait a minute... I could be completely wrong and maybe they intended it to be "Requeset" all along. I could be the stupid one here thinking they meant "request" 🤣

@@StardustSpeedman Thanks! Trying to get more people interested in some of my favorites 😁

Sorry I missed this one, I do hope they get to that point in a few years

@@sikosonix901 I mostly agree with all of that, but I'm just really hopeful that they can find the right combination of physics and controls to let the little kids have fun while having room for more advanced players to really dig deep. Like Spark The Electric Jester 3, but even more.

@MarkerMurker I thought that's what I was saying. I specifically specified massive skill range.

@@sikosonix901 Ah, I might have slightly misread. Then yeah, I fully agree

@@sants4560 I think that would be amazing! I mean, I wish I could understand any of this so I could use it 😅

@@_veloxity91 Yesss! Sonic Skyfall floatiness with Sonic GT's homing attack sounds awesome!

@@AshkarBehek0 I can definitely understand that. Although I would still like the ability to create those moments myself as well.

@@AquaVerve I absolutely love GT (made a whole video rambling about it a while back), but there are so many ideas I don't want to end up unused or unexplored.

@@Doxthefox Absolutely, it's one of the best Sonic games out there and it's why I thought about this.

I noticed that too!

@@Night-Lord That's the thing, everything I talked about doesn't have to be core gameplay, but just a thing you can do if you notice the mechanic and want to experiment. I'm not saying make all this stuff required, or to raise the skill floor. I just want them to raise the skill ceiling. Right now it's mostly reaction based and not very rewarding for creativity unless you use the spear exploit or something which looks stupid to me. I want something that's high skill that makes sense for the characters. You're right, Sonic Team has been improving. And Shadow Gens had a little bit of this and inspired me to make this video. I think you'll get what I mean if you play Sonic GT. S Ranks are flexible. If you struggle with making the right speed, you can focus on rings, badniks, rails, and tricks. Any mix of those things can lead to an S and it encourages play that looks like Sonic. And those levels are big and wide enough to make it all make work and make sense. I only say all this because I've seen it's possible. I'm not nitpicking Shadow Gens, I'm considering how far they could push what they did there while allowing (but not requiring) more ingenuity.

Most of these maneuvers are things that could very easily exist in a less difficult game, not required for progression but for higher skill players it would be an excellent wait to reward their skill, but yes agreed.

@@Andi_Thy_Is Exactly this! Like a game called Spark The Electric Jester 3. You could basically play it as a Sonic game, but there's so much cool movement tech that you can use *if* you get a handle on it. That's what I want out of Sonic. They can keep the low skill floor and low complexity, but I'd like options. With Shadow Generations, I'm seeing a little bit of that, with some people saying "Wow, I didn't realize you could do that", or "I didn't even think you could go there". It would be cool. It would help with replayability and visually selling the game to people.

@@MarkerMurker actual momentum would be cool because it has a high skill ceiling and high reward

@@stanzacosmi GT's homing attack was great, with height and speed influencing your exit angle. I still love GT to this day despite being so short because every run through a level can be a bit different. About badnik bouncing, it doesn't have to be mandatory. Just a cool thing people *could* do if they notice it and see it might lead to something or help skip a pit. Doesn't have to even be in the marketing at all. Just there for people who experiment. Doom Blast is actually why I made this video, it's so cool but it feels unrealized.

@@devonthehedgehog1808 I never tried Ultrakill, I'll have to take a look

@@StardustSpeedman Thank you!

@@baval5 I didn't know that tech about Sonic 4! But Sonic GT was my favorite homing attack until Proto Sonic came along. It makes more sense that way

@@MarkerMurker Yeah the best area for it is the second level of episode 1, theres a section where there are 5 or so Bubbles Badniks in a row, if you do it normally you slowly climb up them bouncing off each one with homing attacks but if you time it right you can blast through all 5 in one dash. It looks really cool. Edit: Theres actually a bunch of areas like that through the game You can see it done around 2:30 of this speedrun: watch?v=e9qcS4BS6hY