I still can't get lag-free with emulators and run-ahead. Ugh. Tried everything. Especially prevalent with mario world on snes. The actual console with CRT beats my fast pc on a 144hz with mesen and run ahead at 2 frames.
@narniaphuket3 ай бұрын
the chip runs at 21mhz
@davidmckelvey26013 ай бұрын
This really changes the vibe of the song, wow.
@DrTechXX4 ай бұрын
Retroarch run-ahead vs real hardware and MiSter: Retroarch run-ahead wins!!
@lucagil645 ай бұрын
Hi, can i react you video?
@DynextsDynasty5 ай бұрын
obam
@amgs-marcelodiversão6 ай бұрын
Genial... Isso mostra que realmente muda o jogo! Se o jogo foi feito e construído com inpult, o correto é eu permanecer no original... Mas isso é gosto de quem gosta! Eu sou totalmente a favor de que o jogo siga sua originalidade e construção da época e não uma aplicação criada para modificar o original para um jogo que não existe!
@Yourlocal7718 ай бұрын
Hi
@DrTechXX9 ай бұрын
And now? What are you going to do, Mister FPGA? Kkkkkk!
@diegomayfield47519 ай бұрын
Tried this with the first TMNT on NES . Did the pause and skip frame to dial in the number to set it at . Wow I think it now plays much better than the original.
@diegomayfield47519 ай бұрын
Thanks for doing this test ! I never thought this would ever happen with NES emulation .
@DavidFilskov10 ай бұрын
That's simply incredible!! - is your emulator circumventing the GPU by rendering directly into video memory somehow?
@TylerLoch10 ай бұрын
This is just RetroArch. You can see the specs in the video details. I'm using Linux in DRM (Direct Rendering Manager) mode, launching RetroArch from a plain console rather than through a standard window manager like X or Wayland.
@DavidFilskov10 ай бұрын
Linux of course :) - quite impressive. Thanks!
@LasciviousPsyche11 ай бұрын
@Tyler Loch I know this is old, but i'm just getting into retroarch on pc, but a friend told me about the delay that new monitors aka my pc monitor vs crt old monitors. Is there really a difference in the input lag using a modern tv or monitor? If so is there a way to fix this delay with retro arch or any other program thanks.
@TylerLoch11 ай бұрын
Old CRT displays have 1-16ms of delay by nature, because that's how long it takes to draw an entire screen from top to bottom. Newer displays can theoretically have less but often have more, due to additional internal processing steps (smoothing, etc) that simply didn't exist in CRT displays. Every modern display has different settings to tweak (Game Mode, etc etc), and higher refresh rates can drastically help as well.
@force4973 Жыл бұрын
Composite way better
@KurtBenning Жыл бұрын
Wow This insane!
@niksarass Жыл бұрын
I counted 2 frames for hardware and quicknes, 3 frames for nestopia. Is it correct?
@TylerLoch Жыл бұрын
That seems accurate to my calculations at the time. Though this video is pretty old now, and other tests do not show an extra frame for Nestopia. I used Quicknes for proving same-frame accuracy and Run Ahead's better-than-real-hardware performance simply because it was the least computationally expensive option, allowing for the highest emulated frame delay.
@SimonZellox Жыл бұрын
I can't wait for future hardware to be powerful enough for this to work with PS2 emulation.
@HollowRick10 ай бұрын
Same tbh
@faithsupport4023 Жыл бұрын
🐕hi, Tyler (you don't have to do a Q&A video but) do you think your a good person? if so do you think there's an afterlife? also i'm not better than anybody else
@MisterMemeDude Жыл бұрын
17th like
@CartoonPhreak Жыл бұрын
The best cartoons on Toonami and Miguzi (Cartoon Network) were ThunderCats, Sailor Moon (DiC version), Code Lyoko, The Powerpuff Girls, Pokémon, Dragon Ball Z (the FUNimation dub), Ben 10: Alien Force, Totally Spies, Cardcaptors, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003) and Winx Club (the original cartoon, not the Nickelodeon version nor the Netflix live action series)
@AdrianAgustin5462 жыл бұрын
Can I borrow your Toy Story video? Caitlin Sparkle wants everyone to comment on her new post.
@YodaOnABender Жыл бұрын
Those two sentences don’t make sense
@AdrianAgustin546 Жыл бұрын
@@YodaOnABender I asked the dude for permission first.
@YodaOnABender Жыл бұрын
@@AdrianAgustin546 comment still makes no sense
@AdrianAgustin546 Жыл бұрын
@@YodaOnABender It's "made for kids."
@YodaOnABender Жыл бұрын
@@AdrianAgustin546 u aren’t answering any of my questions, you’re just saying random stuff
@archibaldc.18332 жыл бұрын
Could the super fx 2 chip have ever realistically portrayed the game at 40MHz?
@CapnSlipp2 жыл бұрын
I believe not. The FX 2 chip shipped with a ~20 MHz oscillator driving it and the best hardware hackers have been able to get it up to without crashing seems to be 30 MHz.
@archibaldc.18332 жыл бұрын
@@CapnSlipp makes me wonder why Nintendo is anyone would just overclock the chip to begin with, getting more bang for your buck.
@DarkDyllon11 ай бұрын
@@archibaldc.1833 it's the same with the Switch, for example with their flagship titles like Zelda BOTW and TOTK, they chug quite a bit, people have overclocked the CPU and fixed 80% of the slowdown with it, why not give devs the power to dictate howmuch CPU speed they need.
@FabioSpelta2 жыл бұрын
You should try now with the run ahead latency reduction feature of retroarch with those cores. It'd be super cool to see if and how different that'd be!
@TylerLoch2 жыл бұрын
I have! In fact, I've been experimenting with Run-Ahead since its first nightlies. Here's a video where I took things to the extreme and proved it's possible to have less latency than even real hardware: kzbin.info/www/bejne/laLcpGypmd99gas
@ikanono2 жыл бұрын
Wow 13 years ago
@hichammarcelcoca88092 жыл бұрын
Also Works In SheepShaver?
@TylerLoch2 жыл бұрын
No. System 7 (at this phase of development) was for 68k CPUs only. I believe SheepShaver is PPC-only, and can only run legacy 68k software through Mac OS' built-in 68k emulator, post-boot.
@tpfmike19762 жыл бұрын
LOL
@zeesunoo69502 жыл бұрын
Means...Is it safe to put ONE value as run ahead frame for all SEGA and SNES games ?
@TylerLoch2 жыл бұрын
"Safe"? That's a subjective term. What are you trying to be safe against? Generally there's nothing wrong at all with a value of 1. You're likely not going to get the same latency as hardware with modern displays and computer hardware anyway, so 1 maybe gets you back to even. A value of 2 combats most SNES games' two-frame internal lag. I can't speak much to the latency of Sega (MegaDrive/Genesis?) though. I usually set it to 2.
@WingmanLive3 жыл бұрын
On pc though youve got a lot of new sync technology- retro console's would most likely use vsync, co a comparason of mario 64 on crt vs mario 64 on a gsync or amd freesync monitor would be interesting to see maybe emulation could beat real hardware.
@TylerLoch3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Higher refresh rates alone get you there. A CRT always takes 16ms to paint a frame. A 240Hz display gets you a whole frame in only 4ms. Though you're fighting against display processing time that isn't an issue on an analog CRT.
@xvit3 жыл бұрын
I’m so sick of zero input lag on emulators. Nothing beats authentic hardware with that classic input lag.
@andrepido7473 жыл бұрын
Shut up
@HollowRick10 ай бұрын
Lmao
@Slammer6613 жыл бұрын
i have the same board, did you use a toggle switch and what size resistor did you use for the blanking line?
@TylerLoch3 жыл бұрын
I simply touched the 5v blanking wire to complete its circuit periodically for demonstration purposes. Composite always stayed connected, since I use that for CSYNC. To be perfectly honest, I'm not using any resistor for blanking. 5v in, 5v out. Am I living dangerously?
@Slammer6613 жыл бұрын
You’ve made it further then I have but I seen everyone using switches but the only person beside you even talking about this easy mod is a Reddit post about it.the extra space on the board mine has that too. I don’t think these models need them, I read somewhere it should pick up the signal but it didn’t make sense. Check the segaholic yt page, he uses the same beard board. But wires in a switch.
@TylerLoch3 жыл бұрын
@@Slammer661 The switch just lets you activate the RGB overlay on-demand. 5v solid to the blanking wire on the jungle chip means full RGB over the entire screen. No 5v to the chip means only the composite/other signal is shown. If you'll be using the TV for both RGB and composite/other signals, a switch is nice. Me? In those rare occasions, I just disconnect the 5v patch wires hanging off the back of my TV.
@teddym28083 жыл бұрын
I got all excited when I saw the title as I thought it meant on laptops/LCDs etc. How low can I get retro gaming/arcade shmups lag with retroarch, with an xbox usb controller? Any ideas?
@TylerLoch3 жыл бұрын
RunAhead is a magical setting that "erases" routine levels of input lag, and is meant for a situation like yours. Going for less lag than real hardware is more of an academic pursuit than something feasible for everyone. LCDs almost all have more latency than a CRT. In fact, they cannot have LESS than a CRT, except maybe for high framerate panels. So, high framerate panel (120hz, 240hz, etc), RunAhead enabled at 1-2 frames, is your best bet. There will be inherent lag to any input device. Not sure what an Xbox controller is by default, but probably no more than a frame.
@teddym28083 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch Hi, ,my panel is 7ms response 144hz. Sorry I had missed your very kind reply somehow. My coming gaming laptop is 3ms 300hz. That with one or two runahead will basically be great I presume. Tried one today, and can even use it on PS1 (10980HK 8 core locked at 4.4ghz for all 8 cores, 32gb ram, Nvidia 2080S), but I have yet to try two. I can also use 1 on duckstation standalone and I can really feel it when playing games like einhander. It's a very exciting time to be a retro gamer!
@DavidFilskov10 ай бұрын
@@teddym2808Did you succeed in minimizing your latency? On my channel I've only ever measured ~60 ms (3-4 frames) as the lowest latency on modern emulation gaming handhelds in RetroArch. Most devices lie around 80 ms and the worst (AYN Odin 1 and 2) around 130-140 ms.
@teddym280810 ай бұрын
@@DavidFilskov Oh yes, my input lag is crazy low now with a powerful system, and a board with good DPC latency figures also helped. Plus I use Nvidia Reflex and a real G-Sync monitor, it's amazing now. It will never be like this on a handheld, well, a powerful AMD windows handheld can have excellent input lag, but I mean the cheapos you know, forget about it. The best thing I ever did was buy a real G-Sync monitor with module that easily rotates into TATE mode. It has 1-240hz adaptive sync and has simply transformed retro gaming for me., If I add just one frame run ahead to the genesis plus gx core, for example, when I do the frame test (let go of all controls, press P to pause game, hold jump button in game, press K to advance frames), I get response on very first press. So I am seeing input lag of a frame here, or 2 frames without any run ahead. It does depend on the core of course, things like Beetle Saturn have extra unnecessary lag. But even PS2 and PS3 can be played without any discernible lag :)
@teddym280810 ай бұрын
I replied but youtube keeps deleting my replies. I have no idea what I said wrong, all I spoke about was sync and latency.@@DavidFilskov
@RetroPlus3 жыл бұрын
This really shows how important that synth drone is to the whole vibe of the song
@adama90993 жыл бұрын
Hey Tyler I have the exact same TV and nodded it exactly how your diagram showed and for some reason I get a scrolling wavy image. Any idea on what I’m doing wrong?
@TylerLoch3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like your Sync isn't getting picked up. On my TV for SCART inputs, I just pipe the composite signal into the regular Video In port of the TV. If you're not getting either Composite Sync or plain Sync, you'll see scrolling and a mess on screen. For VGA with custom modelines, I merge Hsync and Vsync (with some resistors to bring the signal level down. not legit, but works for my setup) and plug into the Video In port.
@mirabilis4 жыл бұрын
Sure. But is it consistent?
@TylerLoch4 жыл бұрын
Depends on the Run-Ahead settings and the system being emulated. For this run on a 2009 MacBook showing next-frame latency on a one-frame-lag game, Run-Ahead was set to 1 frame, and Frame Delay was enabled at 8ms to start emulation of the frame(s) halfway through the raster scan. So 50% of inputs would make it in time to be shown on the next frame. More powerful rigs can set Frame Delay to 15ms so virtually all inputs land in time for the next frame. Of course...just set Frame Delay to 2, and no Frame Delay shenanigans are needed. You'd just miss out on seeing the first frame of Mario's jump. Most games later than the NES (like SNES) seem to have two frames of inherent lag, so no animation would be lost.
@mirabilis4 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch That depends on the game. :)
@nickplj124 жыл бұрын
Nice! I can’t wait to try out this easter egg.
@ianplace99774 жыл бұрын
What
@JoeRoy134 жыл бұрын
Grut
@ianplace99774 жыл бұрын
@@JoeRoy13 no
@JoeRoy134 жыл бұрын
@@ianplace9977 G R U T
@ianplace99774 жыл бұрын
@@JoeRoy13 will
@nickplj124 жыл бұрын
@@ianplace9977 little kid
@ArthurFreitas964 жыл бұрын
Is it possible to overclock super fx to 20mhz or 40mhz using lr-snes9x2002? Using this emulator, I am testing star fox in a raspberry pi zero and suprisingly its running just a little bit slower than the first configuration shown in the video.
@dramel124 жыл бұрын
how many hz have your monitor?
@TylerLoch4 жыл бұрын
This is a standard NTSC TV, so 59.94
@Hyperlink19914 жыл бұрын
20 mhz is the best one because it doesn't run too slow or too fast
@tskraj31904 жыл бұрын
The problem is you are using a SNES emulator or SNES Mini. I must clear this up. ALL SNES Emulators and SNES Minis are not comparable to the original SNES console hardware. There are many limitations the SNES Mini and SNES emulators. First off, The SNES used a WDC 65c816 custom 16-Bit CPU clocked @ 3.58 MHz. The SNES Mini and SNES Emulators are based on the Ricoh 5A22 8/16-Bit CPU clocked @2.68 MHz for backwards compatibility with NES ROMs. Second, the SNES Emulators and SNES Mini do not emulate the clock speed of the Super FX Microchip or the SA-1 Accelerator Microchip, instead of utilizing the additonal 10.5-10.74 MHz of these chips, they are emulated as RISC CPUs but utilize the Emulator/SNES Mini's main CPU frequency of 2.68 MHz.
@TreyMotes4 жыл бұрын
LOL... this is the dumbest comment concerning how emulation DOESN'T work that I have seen in a long time. This ain't it chief...
@tskraj31904 жыл бұрын
@@TreyMotes And your's is the dumbest comment I've seen that doesn't disprove anything I say. Any dumb ass can disagree just to be a troll. You must really need the attention.
@intron94 жыл бұрын
source? : it's a game engine by valve
@tskraj31904 жыл бұрын
@@intron9 🤣
@SerBallister4 жыл бұрын
@@tskraj3190 I don't get why the SuperFX needs to be emulated at the same clock speed as the main CPU ? Emulators can emulate different chip speeds quite easily and it's no real magic (in software terms) to do so. EDIT: I just quickly checked BSNES (github.com/bsnes-emu) , most of what you say about emulators is wrong.
@italoa.b.oliveira34994 жыл бұрын
Could someone explain better how to know the frames?! Please. Because on youtube, everyone says something. I did the procedure with Super Mario World (snes): - I pressed the "K" key, Mario did NOT move. - I pressed the "K" key a second time, Mario did NOT move. - I pressed the "K" key for the third time, Mario moved. How many frames do I set on RETROARCH??? 2 or 3?!
@TylerLoch4 жыл бұрын
I can confirm that Super Mario World on the SNES has two internal frames of input delay during gameplay. So you'd set Run Ahead in Retroarch to 2. Knowing that as a frame of reference, you can figure out how your button presses correspond to frames. Each game can have a different delay. You can't assume based on system.
@italoa.b.oliveira34994 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch So, the frame that the character starts the movement is always discarded?! (In the case of the "Super Mario Word" that I mentioned, Mario starts the movement in the third frame.)
@TylerLoch4 жыл бұрын
@@italoa.b.oliveira3499 Correct. So, Frame 0 is the frame you pushed the button. On Frames 1 and 2 nothing happens. On the third frame, you see the result of your action. Run-Ahead effectively "removes" the number of frames its configured for. Picking "2" for Run-Ahead means the above Frames 1 and 2 are "removed", leaving your action to be displayed as fast as possible.
@italoa.b.oliveira34994 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch Best explanation I've seen so far. And if I in this case of "Super Mario World" activate run-ahead in 3 or more frames, how will the emulator react???
@megapro17253 жыл бұрын
@@italoa.b.oliveira3499 it will add latency instead
@_mistiax98964 жыл бұрын
OH MY GOD NOSTALGIA
@honsingchangon79264 жыл бұрын
Thanks for preserving this snippet of tech history!
@apptreeline5 жыл бұрын
very good result
@GlassICE5 жыл бұрын
OMG Guys till now, i've always thought that Real Hardware always have less lag than an Emulator but this video shown me that i was wrong all that time ? Is this also applies to Sega Genesis, N64 and SNES etc,,,etc... ?
@tylerloch91735 жыл бұрын
You weren't wrong ALL that time. Just the last year or so :) This applies to any core available in RetroArch. Obviously it has heightened performance requirements, so it only realistic to use on pre-3D console cores.
@GlassICE4 жыл бұрын
@Neon Pizza I always respect to play Retro games with a CRT and, that would never change I even use every system up to Wii on a CRT Screen Except Original XBOX that hardware is capable of HD But other than that, it's all CRT
@kiyoaki19855 жыл бұрын
The real problem here is that you're using A on the SNES controller to jump
@tylerloch91735 жыл бұрын
Sorry you had to suffer. I didn't edit the button configuration before taking the video. Y/B for life.
@Richard-ys9zo5 жыл бұрын
Hey man, what value resistors and caps do you use? I have the same model. And also, you did not need to ground your RGB via 75ohm resistors?
@TylerLoch5 жыл бұрын
Just basic 0.1uF capacitors, and 75ohm resistors to ground. Here's the full write-up of my mod: shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1258657#p1258657 And, MarkOZLAD's markup of my circuit: klovimg.com/images/2018/09/19/TylerL-Sony-KV20TR23-RGB-Mod30168dd363cd716f.png
@Richard-ys9zo4 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch Thanks man! I originally saw your post schmups! Thats where I saw your link to this video. My mod works well, except I have some sort of interferences that is strong from the left side of the screen but fades into the middle. Can't figure it out. No interference when I am not using the RGB inputs. Oh well, I'll keep plugging at it.
@TimDavis774 жыл бұрын
@@TylerLoch Did you or anyone else ever design a PCB that can just plug into that caption board header on the A board? I'm trying to make one to avoid the breadboard mess, but I've never designed a PCB before.
@TylerLoch4 жыл бұрын
@@TimDavis77 That's a neat idea. I hadn't considered it and haven't made a PCB before either, but that seems like it'd be a great beginner project if you're adept enough with soldering. Though I bet this model isn't prevalent enough to make a production investment. Purely educational.
@zaadbaad5415 жыл бұрын
dammh
@Sofaking19735 жыл бұрын
40 mhz looks like a PS1 game
@SerBallister4 жыл бұрын
@@scorpionmk6695 PS1 didn't use its CPU for drawing polygons, so that 33.3mhz is irrelevant.
@RogeriusRex3 жыл бұрын
On that topic.... How come no one has thought of porting starfox to ps1?
@linuxization42052 жыл бұрын
@@RogeriusRex That's such a good idea.
@EliteSpectre Жыл бұрын
@@RogeriusRex because the super fx chip renders it's polygons over what the snes renders, like taping a cutout over a photo