I love this, thank you. The main thing that I've heard from other videos is throwing "from the hips", which to me sounded like the ilium-to-femur joint. So I've been lost for a couple of years. I really like the ideas of pulling from the lat (of course, you can't isolate a single muscle, lots of other muscles will always assist) and that several things that other teachers focus on "happen for free" if you do the right thing with the lat. Terminology suggestion: the "x-step" usually refers to all of the steps of the backhand throw. And "step" implies putting weight on that foot. Perhaps the move following the "launch step" could be called the "cross touch" or "back touch"? In dance choreography, a touch is when a foot makes contact with the ground without putting your full weight on that foot.

I throw around 340 consistently with the "beginner form" but have gotten into the 400s a couple times. It is absolutely clear why pros take stretching so seriously, I could feel how intentionally using my back muscles to build the resistance could result in pulling something. I did not have immediate distance results, though with a 20mph tailwind on flat ground I was getting around 350 consistently and putters going 290-305. Very interested to keep testing this form, especially on a calmer day when I can learn more from less variables. I have never had a disc golf form video make so much sense, and I feel like back when I was grinding my form, I had seen every video that released before 2021. The scientific approach and language made it much easier for me to comprehend. I believe this is likely the key to me being able to throw 400+ consistently. Hope to be able to provide an update. Thank you!

I don’t think the connection between the lat and the foot is that pronounced; I can pull with my lat but not lift my toes, but this concept is good. It reinforces not collapsing, will naturally keep your shoulders a bit more closed, and then you can late accelerate from the pocket.

This is the best explanation of the backhand throw I have ever seen/heard presented in a relatively simple way. It is a way of thinking about the throw, the result is the same as what the pros look like but this keeps the focus simple without ten or more different pieces that coaches often have you think about one piece at a times for months. This helps focus on the key point that needs to happen to get the whip that brings real distance, Thanks very much for saying it in a way that makes tons of sense.

I want a pair of the shoes you are wearing, what are they? Not joking, they look ultra comfortable.

Excellent video Jonathan! From my perspective you nailed it on each piece you talked out. I hope every YT coach who starts repeating this ensures to credit you :)

Interesting. Thats a lot of information though. Just in my two years of playing and starting at 41, for the average Joe, if you really want to get better with distance and accuracy, consistently, with a lot of things you pointed out, you have to skip a few lunches, pull a few all nighters, and abandon all relationships temporarily. The last statement is probably stretched a little, but you have to have a little of that mindset!

You broke the code for me! Thanks. Now, how do I keep my shoulder low? I shrug and I think it’s costing me speed

Lats or Delts? I'm having trouble really grasping the feeling of pulling with my back as you describe [in that move]. Any tips/drills to specifically focus on getting this feeling first? It feels more like I'm driving the move with my legs/hips/core. I keep trying to mentally think about doing a 'lat pulldown' at the gyn and what pulling with those muscles feels like.

from your 650ft throw, you go with your butt frist, try to be more your side againgst the target untill your last step, then you load, now you walk with your back againgst the target, sorry my english, hope you understand :) and make sure you have your weight fully on your front foot before throw, and take your steps againgst were you throw, now you round alot and you use your upperbody to throw the disc. your runup looks like you should throw to the left were your hip points to. no offence, love to learn <3

Very interesting! I have been thinking about the throw in much the same way, unfortunately without beeing able to incorporate it in my own throw, mostly I guess due not really doing much form practice. But anyway, the way I think about it is that what is usually referred to as the coil (done correctly) is putting tension on the posterior oblique sling (POS). So all across the back from the left glutes to the right shoulder (for RHBH). In addition, shoulder protraction puts tension on the upper back muscles. From the coiled position, internal rotation of the left/back leg as seen in the form of many pros, will put even more tension on the POS. And the use of the off arm in the way you describe increases the tension in the upper back. This increased tension all over the posterior side basically forces the body into the power pocket, as there is too much tension to stay "coiled", again much like you decribed it. Now the body is in the power pocket position, but still with high tension all across the backside. Now from this position is where all of the backside muscles contract. This includes all of the POS, including the left glute (RHBH) which causes the left hip to extend and push forward, which together with the front hip being forced back like you said, creates some pelvic rotation. Contraction of the upper back muscles creates the "swim move", as the left shoulder will retract and left arm swing back a bit as a result of this contraction. I think that some players gets proportionally more of their power from upper back and therefore more horizontal shoulder abduction, causing a greater angle between chest and arm on release. Like GG. And some players gets more of the power from the POS, causing more shoulder turn and lower angle between chest and arm on release, like McBeth. Anyways, I find discussion of boimechanics interesting and perhaps specifically outside of a coaching perspective. From a coaching perspective I think that different cues can cause different people to find the correct mechanics. And I think biomechanically "correct" cues are likely to be ineffective in many cases, which also make biomechanic details less relevant to coaching.

Pulling through with activation in the Lats is clearly necessary, but I don’t think you can claim that it has as much of an effect on footwork as you claim. I think there is some placebo in your muscle memory that makes you create so much difference in your legs when comparing. The effects of pulling with your lats are not simply tied to your whole form, but they are in isolation, the correct movement. Getting someone to say if you do this thing correctly then it will be easy to have correct form for each other parts of the throw is a great placebo that will improve players for sure. I think that there is a correlation not a causation with what you are arguing, but nice video!

Very very interesting. Thanks. I will think of this and try it out.

23:41: "Body in line with the target, which is what we want to achieve when the disc is right here. That's what the off arm is doing. So, if you think it's helping you to rotate through, you are actually doing the opposite of what it should be doing." This is very interesting. I have experienced that aiming is easier when I use the off arm. This explains why.

Wow! I've been playing for a few years now. I'm very coordinated for a 53 year old. Practicing here in my living room I'm automatically finishing on my heal. I'll be doing field work all day today!

Very informative! I’ve watched most disc golf tutorial videos over the last 12 years and this video does an excellent job of presenting science based techniques. I briefly experimented with the idea of pulling with the back and it feels very much like when I hit my best distances. While focusing on the back it does feel a bit like my arm is stiff and may lead to a bit of rounding. What are your thoughts on the action and reaction of the throwing arm?

So if im currently throwing 450, do i have to use my back muscles? I dont consciously do this

This was super interesting. Loading the lats is not anything I've heard yet, and I'm excited to try it out! I'll give your tips and cues a shot during my round Sunday and report back! Thanks for making this!

I think I agree with most of this. There is a thread on DGCR entitled - "Latissimus Dorsi the King of Mass, Brace and Dingle Arms". I'd link it, but youtube will probably delete my comment, so you can search just Latissimus on DGCR and find it easily. I talk about a lot the same stuff in my, Pulling vs Slinging - The Truth About the Arm, Power of Pulling - Internal vs External Torque, Loading the Bow & Arrow like Eagle McMahon, The Revolving Door, Whip Step Drill, Door Frame Drills 1-4, and Reciprocating Dingle Arm vids.

Thanks. As a learner I want to know the "feel". This helps a lot.

Thank you for making this video. I feel like your demonstrations really helped me think about my row in a different way

I think it would have been helpful to describe exactly what the “lats” are.

Very interesting! I'm gonna take a look at my past throws and try to see if I do this or not. Maybe this will get me to hit 70+ reliably? If i do, I'll update this thread after i recover from this pesky finger injury Thanks for posting your thoughts!

Good stuff Jonathan! This goes well with my "Truth About the Arm - Pulling vs Slinging" vid.

Thanks for the video. It seems that you are attempting to create a full motion throwing technique rather than just tips to make a better throw. One question I have is when do you start to feel engagement of your lats. Is it at the very beginning of your throw at the time of reach back or is it later when you start to bring the disc forward? If it is later when you start to bring the disc forward, does the intensity of the lats contraction vary throughout the throw, being more intense in the "power pocket" phase of the throw than when you just start moving the disc forward. One last question, what part does the hip rotation play in generating velocity? Are you contracting the abs to help with the hip rotation? Do you consider the hip rotation to be an active part of generating velocity or does the hip rotation in your model occur more as a result of the lats work in other words more of a passive movement?

Glad to hear it. I'll try to get out a video more fully explaining the theory soon.

Thank you for this video. This unlocked some doors in my mind in such a good way. This form looks exactly like the pros. I'm going to practice this every day.

Thank yoy

Thanks for this compelling video! So glad it popped into my feed; I think you're really on to something, especially w/ the launch step. Could you clarify some terms, perhaps in a future video, especially where you mention "the weight" and "it goes up" and "it goes down"? I have an intuitive sense of what you mean based on what my eyes see, but these terms feel somewhat overloaded. I think a breakdown in terms of bodily mechanics would really help this stuff land. Again, excellent video. Thank you for the insights!

Ya, in order for me to throw straight on time I need a hop step like feldberg

very informative video! appreciate it.

“Launch Step” is an amazing observation! Thank you!

I’m late to this video, but I had a thought while watching that you could weigh in on. Do you think that a slightly longer extension on the brace leg will naturally keep the upper body behind it? It seems intuitive to me that it would. This might help with rotating on the heel as opposed to the ball of the brace foot which might cause the upper body to be over the brace as opposed to behind it.

This is really a helpful video, and I will be incorporating this technique beginning with tomorrow's warmup. I do have an interesting topic. Thrpughout my life, I have been affidextrous. All sports I've played (tennis, baseball, football, basketball, ping pong, raquetball, pool, etc.) have been right-handed. However, I write, eat, and do most precision tasks left-handed. I did break my right wrist earlier in my life and found I was able to retrain myself to play ping pong and pool to about an equivalent level of proficiency left-handed during the six weeks that I had a cast. That said, I have been playing disc golf for about two uears and play almost exclusively RHBH. I have dabbled with throwing RHFH, but have only limited it to short flick shots because I really feel that my shots suffer when I put power to them. The thought has crossed my mind to learn to thtow LHBH to give myself a right-fading shot for holes for which it would be prefferred. Given my situation, would you recommend that I concentrate on developing the LHBH, or should I try to fix the RHFH, since my right arm in naturally stronger. This came to mind when I saw you practicing the left foot heel pivot.

All you do is plant on the edge of your foot its like a baseball swing watching the pros in MLB. Being on the balls of your feet and plant down on the inside of you foot will keep your weight back, and center.

Failing to extend the plant leg so it is completely straight just as the the disc is ejected is failing to brace. Extending too quickly causes your plant foot to leave the ground. Extending correctly allows your body to rotate in place, on top of the straightened leg. It also prevents pole-vaulting over the top. Extending (bracing) correctly increases hip rotation and torso rotation speed, and hence disc air speed, because torso rotation rate is the single deciding factor in distance throwing. Additionally, extending your plant leg increases pressure on the ground, increasing both grip and traction (they are not the same thing) exactly and precisely when you need it most. If you front leg is not straight before the disc is ejected, then you are not bracing. Period. On top of this, extending allows you to easily move upwards into static balance (as you have done since you learned to walk) at the end of the throw. It's very difficult to end balanced on just your plant leg if that leg remains bent. AND... by timing your leg extension so that it finishes just as the disc is ejected, pressure on the ground is then radically reduced, which automatically allows your plant foot to rotate on the heel.

I think Aaron Gossage has the tightest and shortest form . It’s so quick.

What insightful content, unique and different analysis from what other pros are saying. Kudos to doing your research and thanks for sharing. Eager to go test this out!

I have a hunch as to why it’s so difficult in general for the average player. I have no data here but I believe most RH dominant athletes are also Right Foot dominant. This means for a RHBH you are bracing with your dominant foot instead of using it to generate the power. I come from a Skateboarding background and the friend that introduced me to DG was really surprised how much I struggled. He assumed the brace and weight transfer would come naturally due to my skateboarding experience. The problem is I skate “regular” stance, or left foot forward. The motion for RHBH, specifically the footwork and brace, is the exact opposite of what’s naturally comfortable for me. My hunch is that if we polled the top 100 players, I’d bet a higher percentage of the RH/RF dominate players would skateboard/snowboard “goofy” footed, leading naturally with their right foot. Maybe I’m just trying to justify why I’m still so bad at all of this hahaha. Either way, great videos!! Thank you for taking the time to break it down.

Great video, but could be better with fewer pauses in the videos 😉

I think a big error that people make (eg.: me) is moving 'over the brace' instead of into the brace, because we try to push off with the left leg (RHBH)

Great stuff. When you do the single step are you reaching and torquing from your waist and following through with a delayed pull? I am finding it difficult to generate the power doing the standstill single step. I do feel the brace though. Great stuff

I have a small timeframe between toes hitting and heel hitting in the plant, sometimes it looks like I plant my entire foot at once. I always rotate out on my heel and I know how to brace. I see pro's have a much more pronounced separation in time of their toe/ball of foot hitting before the heel hits when they reach for the ground in the plant. Can players benefit from a longer timeline between toe touching to heel touching or is a smaller timeframe of "rolling" from toe to heel just as effective?

Launch Step is the "Brinster Hop"

After playing "seriously" for a year or so starting at basically 0 skill ive been able to get out to 260ish when im lucky. after recently paying attention to my bracing foot, ive noticed i naturally kind of hop on that last step and have felt alot more snap and power out of my throws. I tend to rotate on the balls of my feet, but im going to try paying attention to my heel instead, as just playing around in my house it feels alot nicer, and i notice the weight staying a little further behind me

Threw my farthest drive thanks to the launch step. Great video

I would love to see a breakdown of Sai Ananda's drives like this. She barely has any run up and crushes the disc.

Thanks for sharing ❤

Hello sir, how do I throw flat? I always throw hyzer sir i tilt the disc sir

Thanks for these couple videos. I really appreciate the thought of the weight going up and then down into the brace, rather than all linear towards the target. I would say Eagle McMahon and Gannon Buhr don't really have a crow hop or short x-step, but obviously they're doing everything right as far as timing. I think for the rest of us, adapting Kristin Tattar's form will help us see results faster. I agree on term "launch step" being illuminating. Perhaps most of us have focusing on the wrong step.