Not consistent. You need a stadium guaranteed that you discard after every attack and that is unreliable. It also means I'll never have a stadium around that really hinders my opponent. It doesn't hit the active and it also needs energies. The only reason this deck is even a little bit consistent is because I don't have to run any energies in the deck and I get space for more disruption and consistency cards. Braviary has less drawbacks and goes through Manaphy too.

True, I didn't notice that play though.

As long as Frosslass puts in work against the meta I'll be okay.

They can make a tier zero archetype that can't be used with anything else, give it its own tier zero cards and the result is the same. Cards are Cards. It doesn't matter if they're in a an archetype or generic cards like Raigeki (which isn't even that good now). I agree that easy as hell to summon boss cards like Baron De Fluer shouldn't have multiple broken effects in one card unless they're very difficult to get out. Glad Beast Heraklinos has a weaker negate effect and is harder to come out for example but you're right in that they do this crap on purpose to milk the competitive players to the maximum. The Exodia example you gave for the OCG is pretty extreme, Sangan and Witch worked like Burning Abyss cards over there at first according to Cap G and having power cards in threes makes a big difference to. That was Yugioh in testing in a way even though the cards were already out. For the TCG power cards were strong obviously but whole decks were filled with them. Even if you didn't see Duo and your opponent did you likely saw another power card etc. It isn't the same as with modern yugioh, especially because outside the nuts with Reasoning and Chaos monsters you weren't going for an OTK out of nowhere most of the time. Imperial Order BEFORE the errata is actually more balanced in those formats than having an Imperial Order with the errata in modern yugioh given how fast and extreme the game has been since zexal and more so arc v.

I'm also a pokemon, digimon, old digimon and one piece tcg fan. Search Duel Masters on my channel and see all my other videos. I love Duel Masters a lot more than you think I do.

You got it.

The point is to use it just to use it. To showcase it for videos and my own curiosity. I'm not going to the World Championship with the deck.

I know this deck isn't tier 1 but it's not as bad as it looks. I got a lot of wins with it and it also gets an auto win against snorlax troll decks which is a nice bonus for me. It definitely works a lot better than those other decks I was complaining about in my rant video.Those night march copycat style decks don't count as regular pokemon decks for me. They're just gimmick decks. Mad Party didnt reach the same staus as night march and united wings will be the same. If they keep the 20x you get power creep. If they go 30x it becomes broken which proves what I always say about gimmick designed cards. Nothing like the gameplay of gen 3-4.

Elden Ring is more of a pokemon game than any modern pokemon game you can think of. No thank you.

Thank you.

No it's a stage 2 and Lileep is a stage 1. You can't use rare candy because root fossil in gen 5 isn't a basic pokemon, it just gets llileep on the bench from the deck. The searching range is bad though.

@@SaberWolf94 I forgot about the “Restored” mechanic. It definitely makes fossil Pokémon hard to get on play.

@@chilup2007 Facts.

To be honest even if they print more they would probably be filler and then they'll make me angry.

@@SaberWolf94 that's fair, we really could do with a fossil centric set for the next mechanic that puts them in the front line of attention to get good cards (or cards in general, still salty about tyrantrum)

Dialga has a grass resistance, I even mention it in the commentary a bunch of times.

@@SaberWolf94 darn, I didn't listen properly.

@@Eike2002 Don't worry about it, I'm thinking I should talk less in my commentary and when I do the narration will be more clear.

If they ever make older format modes, not just special events that go for a few days let me know and I might. For modern yugioh forget about it.

Is that really accurate? The game has been messed up for years and it doesn't stop because there is always a big demographic of players that still support it and don't care. It would probably take 10 or more years before the main game starts drying up for real and of course Konami will do what it can to not let that happen.

This doesn't make full sense though as they give the normal cards alernate arts and full arts now. Also we've had special ex and Lv. x cards in the past too. To me they just want to have a simple game that's why they also got rid of poke bodies and powers and turned everything into abilities.

Power Creep has nothing to do with it. I'm not comparing old cards with modern cards but modern cards with modern cards.

The old Aggron cards you mentioned were not meta but you wouldn't pull your hair out to use them like you say. Their stats were soild for the time so for 1 they wouldn't be dead in one shot. Second, as stage 2 regular pokemon they have access to various types of cards they can benefit from. Double Rainbow Energy, Scramble Energy etc. Now whether or not other stage 2 pokemon can use them better is a different story. Then there's the memory berry tactic with the flail aron. Whether that would still be a lower tier deck, if you build your deck right to be consistent and teched out you stand a good chance to play a soild game against meta decks and at least put up a fight. There is no way twilight masquerade aggron wins against meta decks today unless the opposition somehow bricks and cant do anything for 5 turns. Even then they might still turn the game around.

@@SaberWolf94 I'll definitely agree that the winrate of TWI Aggron vs. current meta is lower than those old Aggron cards vs their meta--I'd guess something like 10% for an optimal TWI Aggron deck (trying to fish for Raging Bolt ex opponents) vs. 20% winrate for an optimal old Aggron build. (Haven't built either so obviously this is just an estimate) The aforementioned gen 3 Aggrons simply don't have the means to make progress in the gen 3 meta where POW! control decks are the strongest, and no amount of 'teching' overcomes the fact that Aggron is simply a much worse version of Dark Tyranitar who will be using the same tech card and consistency options. Really it's a matter of losing quickly with TWI Aggron or losing slowly with gen 3 Aggron. Personally I dislike both equally, though I know that some people do have more fun if they at least got to exchange some turns and declare some attacks in what was ultimately a guaranteed loss from the start. It's also a bit unfair at the moment to compare the performance of gen 3 and gen 9 Aggron since gen 3 is fully released with 16 entire sets of cards to minmax Aggron while only about half of gen 9 is out. If we're to say that Ruby Sapphire Aggron gains viability through use of Flail Aron/Memory Berry, we have to keep in mind that Flail Aron didn't come out until 13 sets later in Crystal Guardians. TWI Aggron has room to grow with the aforementioned pairing of an Aggron ex (maybe damages own bench? maybe tera?) or even without an ex but simply having more convenient options to damage your own bench or get stage 2's into play otherwise. I would say that the outlook for most decks is positive given gen 9's strong trend of releasing great consistency options that aren't restricted to one small niche of decks compared to recent gens--think Arven/Crispin/Jacq vs. Irida/Melony/Adventurer's Discovery. Anyway, I would strongly disagree with the statement that the Pokemon card designers are a disgrace and would actually say that they WERE a disgrace for gens 5-8, especially 8. I don't know if the gen 8 designers all got fired or it's the same guys but just held at gunpoint to actually make the game not suck, but something clearly changed for gen 9--it's really like night and day. Gen 8 was awful and as I said before is the source of most of our current frustration with the format. I honestly think all of your anger in this video (and your very angry Chandelure video, which I also watched) should be directed at gen 8 and its horrendous balance which unfortunately still completely defines our format. I'd say gen 9 is very well designed but is currently frustrating to play due mostly to the remnants of gen 8 promoting degenerate playstyles and gatekeeping healthy ones. That and some Pokemon like Aggron waiting for more support in the remaining half of the SV era. If this were gen 5-8, I would hold out ZERO hope that such support would ever come and not some nonsense that boosts the already broken Tag Teams, V's, etc; but gen 9 has been excellent for broadly useful trainers and support pokemon so I think it's just about guaranteed. It's just really hard to see the good qualities of gen 9 when getting steamrolled by Radiant Greninja, or Lost Mine Sableye.

@@satellitemarsh2741 To me these modern gens are similar. A few cards change here and there but the rule still stands that regular pokemon are filler. They are a discrace. Also, you oick on RS Aggron, the worst of the bunch the Legend Maker one and the Power Keepers one are a lot better. You also don't just have memory berry but meteor falls, a stadium card that is more consistent and will work as a counter stadium too to most of the popular stadium. These are just semantics at the end of the day, it isn't an Aggron issue but a regulat pokemon issue. It's true that the era has finished yet for Scarlet and Violet but if there's anything I've learnt with modern pokemon since Sun and Moon is that things will only get worse not better by the end of the era. If Aggron is useless now I seriously doubt he'll be better after a few more sets release. The problem is not the attack, the energy cost or the trainer cards to help set up. It's the HP which will remain terrible since it was printed terrible in the first place.

@@SaberWolf94 Legend Maker Aggron is also massively outclassed in gen 3 and would probably net an abysmal winrate in RS-PK meta, and the Power Keepers one is a bench sitting support so it's as good or bad as whichever actual pokemon work with the stacking (none really given the prevalence of Rocket's Admin). I do agree that this isn't about Aggron, but they're worthwhile examples. I just mentioned them since you use TWI Aggron as an example of the poor state of card design currently when they're just as bad. I say they're just as bad because, ultimately, the heart of the Pokemon TCG comes down to trading KOs for prize cards which means either doing high damage to get fast KOs or being durable and denying KOs from your opponent. The gen 3 Aggrons all have average durability for their formats and deal very low damage relative to the investment required, so they have no way to win the KO trade that is essential in the game from 1999 to now and are filler cards--get on TCGOne and queue up any of those Aggron against meta in EX block if you don't believe me. Attacks, energy costs, and set up trainers absolutely do matter. TWI Aggron can deal 300 damage for one energy before boosting tools or Kieran, meaning it has a way to win the prize trade and does not need to survive multiple attacks. We just need consistency options to help it get to that 300 more reliably and then it's participating competently in the KO trade--I'm not saying it's winning worlds, but that it could net an actual satisfying winrate. At 8 minutes in the video you have 3 Aggron and an Aron in play, so them dying in one hit wasn't really the problem. Yes, if they had significantly more HP they could have each attacked multiple times, but also if you could have got a damaged bench, you could have been doing well even if your Aggron get one-shot. It's more of a speed of the game thing than a strictly better or worse thing--Gen 3 is slower than Gen 9, but Base-Fossil is way slower than Gen 3--but that doesn't make Base-Fossil the best format of all time. I get the concern that the era will get worse and not better after having been through gens 5-8, and I tried to address it in my last post but I'll say again: Gen 9 is already clearly different. I know a common narrative is that Gen 7 was fine before Tag Teams ruined it, but frankly Gen 7 sucked and was making huge mistakes from the very start: awful consistency that never got better, humongous attack costs on evolved single prize pokemon, GX attacks (a broken once per game effect which was zero per game if you played only one prizers--another slap in the face). When the first 8 sets of Gen 7 were awful it was reasonable to assume the last 4 would be. Really, if you were for instance playing a one prize fairy deck in gen 7, what do you even do to get set up? All of the best support cards were moronically made type-specific instead of generic so some types were just left out completely. No Brooklet Hill, no Mysterious Treasure, no Giant Hearth, no Welder, and the list goes on--way too long. There is no way in hell you would have even got those 3 Aggron on the board in the first place if this were gen 5-8, not to mention the fact that Angry Slam would cost 2-4 energy for no reason in those gens. Arven, TM Evo, Buddy Poffin, Artazon, Counter Catcher, Earthen Vessel, Crispin, Reversal Energy, Hyper Aroma, Colress's Tenacity, etc. are insane and unprecedented levels of healthy support when compared to the rest of the Pokemon TCG's history and I'd say that with the first 6 sets of SV era being so good, it's more reasonable to assume they're going to continue on this trend for the rest of gen 9. Back when Paldea Evolved came out I was cleaning up on the ladder with a Reversal Energy focused one prize Tinkaton/Cetitan deck having a great time. (I complained about Tinkaton's 140 HP, but honestly it would be broken if it was hard to one shot since it does 180 damage and draws THREE cards per turn.) After Obsidian Flames, I played a deck with Scizor/Cetitan/Gallade to great success. Nowadays I'm playing stuff like Coalossal (he does 280 for a single Reversal Energy) and whichever Pokemon I just happen to like based on appearance/theme--Tinkaton, Tsareena ex, Venomoth--just whatever and I'm having success vs. meta with a wider range of decks than remotely possible in gens 5-8, and honestly a bit wider than possible in gens 1-3, of which I've played thousands of hours from meta to rogue from Base Set to Power Keepers. It's definitely frustrating to play with the garbage gen 8 cards still around, especially when gen 9 isn't complete yet, but those aren't the fault of the gen 9 design team, who I would say are doing a fantastic job. Something like gen 3's Blastoise ex wasn't so great until 4 sets later when Lugia ex (who easily one shot stage 2's, mind you) and Steelix ex came out in Unseen Forces, for example. Give these cards like TWI Aggron, Farigiraf, and Chandelure time and they'll become good when the format matures and gen 8 is finally booted out. Thanks again for reading all this; I liked the video in appreciation of our discussion here. We're gonna make it out of the gen 8 slop bro, I promise.

@@satellitemarsh2741 You don't know what you're talking about. 110 and 120 were the best HP numbers for stage 2 pokemon to hit in that period depending on their retreat and all thier other assets. NO Pokemon in that era whether ex or not can hit for this type of damage easily as I explain in the video. Steelix and Blaziken ex hit for 100 for 4 and need a double discard. These attacks were considered strong. For those old Aggrons to die in one shot back then is like the worst case scenario. Rayquaza ex discarding 3 or Metagross discarding 4-5. Saying they have average durability is false. Not to mention special metal energy. Stage 2 pokemon in THIS era with 180 HP die in one shot by nearly every 3 energy attack from ex pokemon and this is me being nice. Even lots of 2 energy attacks will OHKO them. The majority of them don't even have 180 HP! They still go for 160 or worse and those are dying EVEN easier. Those old Aggrons are not mega attackers but they hit for standard damage with their energy numbers back then. Even as average attackers they will still put more pressure on the oppossition compared to conventional attacks of stage 2 pokemon today. For Twilight Masquerade Aggron you can hit between nothing to 300 and realistically you will usually be hitting for 150 or 200 if you're lucky. Regardless he dies in one shot. I'm not talking about support cards here, regardless of what they print there will always be something meant to help you set up, whether good or bad. You want to worship the designers because they gave us a bunch of generic support cards like poffins and artazon? I stand by on what I said. Whatever they print next regular pokemon are still going to be useless. I didn't even go into the Iron Hands and the future pokemon. The filler treatment of these regular cards is so obvious and yet you're still trying to find a way to justify it. If you'd talk to Jason about this he'd tell you the same I bet. Besides a few faults like not having basic metal and darkness energies gen 3 was the golden age. To say the state of Twilight Masquerade Aggron with an Aggron deck built in gen 3 is similar is a joke to me.

I'd argue they need to be in the 120 HP range, the legendary basics should be in the range of 150-160 and the stage 2 should be in the 250 range.

@@SaberWolf94 What about stage 1 evolution's that evolve into stage 2's? I think they should have like 130-180 HP or something if stage 2's are gonna have 200-250 HP.

@@michaelc7418 Simple. They should have between 160 to 200 HP. For stage 2's 200 isn't even an upgarde. They need to have between 220 to 260.

Gengar is also used in Zoroark VSTAR. What you say sounds good on paper, that's what I though too "aggron is just like zoroark" but it's not the case. It's a stage 2 so you need more space for candies, it always dies in one shot and you don't have its vstar power for consistency. It didn't work out like it at all. Dodrio only draws you one card so I don't think it would be very consistent. Heck even zoroark with it is just okay so aggron would definitely be much worse.

I really wanted to build frosmoth but there just werent any good ones, and granted its a bit exceptionally bad. But like it aint even worth playing cuz someone can just smash a huge poke and ur like dope :D

I find that even with type advantage it's usually not enough for regular pokemon to win.

I know the problems for yugioh better than anyone. Regarding pokemon who says the rule is for regular pokemon to die in one shot? We had regular pokemon and ex pokemon in gen 3 where the multi prize concept started in the first place. The game wasn't like this at all. All of you bring up up meta. This has nothing to do with it. It isn't about " a lot of cards are unplayable" like you say. Their whole design philosophy makes them dead on arrival from the start. They are not designed to be in the same league from the start on purpose. The best cards will always rise on top no matter what, this is a matter of illogical card design. Check the hp differences between regular stage 2 pokemon and ex pokemon in gen 3 and check the hp difference between modern regular stage 2 pokemon and stage 2 pokemon ex today. That is the problem.

It sound good on paper but it's not a solution. If you make a format with all rule box pokemon banned, yeah a lot of stage 2 pokemon will become good but they would still OHKO each other in one shot. Think about it, many of them can do decent damage to pressure ex pokemon but they have low HP that won't take any big attack. You can't make a custom format like this if they designers didn't have something like this in mind from the start. I guess if something like this did happen on TCG Live I'd try it out but like I've said the real solution is to just imrpove HP. I mean, the gen 3 era is already tried and tested, it isn't difficult they just don't do it on purpose.

Glad you think so too.

This has been going on since 2011 clueless kid. And I've been talking about it since 2017. Have you played the gen 3 or gen 4 TCG? You have no idea what you're talking about.

You clearly didn't understand anything about this rant. Have you ever played a format pre gen 5?

@@SaberWolf94 I've been a competitive player for 20 years and qualified for Worlds

@@jacksnell8875 If that's true that makes your original comment even more ignorant. Why would your takeaway be that I'm talking about cards being meta? It isn't a demand for random cards to be meta but rather about the design philosophy of the designers.

@@SaberWolf94 without bad cards there'd be no baseline for other cards to be good and competitive. It's your fault for trying to make bad cards work

@@jacksnell8875 You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about here if you're bringing it back to meta. I really doubt you're someone that played pre gen 5.

That's just something that will always happen with some cards. I'm talking about a wide gameplay design problem with regular cards being printed as filler by design.

And Gardevoir was also only being used because Gardevoir EX existed too. Take the Gardevoir EX out and you have another weak stage 2 pokemon with 140 HP like this is 2011.

I've been talking about this exact subject since the Sun and Moon era. It might take a miracle for things to change but as long as they don't older eras are always going to be superior in terms of better gameplay.

@@SaberWolf94 Yeah it feels very disappointing to spend hours in Live trying out new ideas or lists, and then settling to just look for a game in a 10-year-old format on TCG One instead.

And you sound like fanboy that pokemon doesn't care about if you weren't spending money on them. I'm talking about an issue that's been going on since 2011. Nobody says I'm quitting. Don't you think it's dumb that sets are twice as big as in the past and LESS cards are actually good? You like buying a 200 card set and 170 of them are just filler? Look at lists for gen 3 and gen 4 card sets and find out the difference novice.

Bro we cannot play GLC consistently because TPCI gutted their online client with zero insight as to when expanded cards (for GLC and expanded) are coming. Local players don't want to invest in these formats if there is no official support for them either.

This is not about meta cards or power levels. Being a beginner has nothing to do with anything either. The game had beginners and always had new people starting to play in the past and now. I really don't know any other way to describe this design issue by just asking you to compare the HP of stage 2 ex pokemon and stage 2 regular pokemon from 2003-2007. This is a matter of illogical gameplay design treating the majority of cards as filler on purpose. Not designing good cards all around and letting the meta cards rise up on top.

I'm not familiar and I'm also not interested in draft formats for pokemon if it's something like that. The Pokemon Company should have wanted to have their card designs ironed out like they used to be. Truthfully my goal is to show interesting rogue decks for the channel that perhaps can turn viable for high tier play too. If Live ever gets these alternate modes then I'm open to them. If not then I'll just play busted rulebox decks, it's all pokemon wants us to use apparently.

@SaberWolf94 not a draft format at all. I'd recommend looking into it at least before forming an opinion about it.

@@daftpunk5555 I'm not bashing the format at all. I'm just saying if I wanted to play pokemon TCG for fun only I'd play an older format. Given my circumstances with the channel I play modern pokemon tcg for videos primarily. I'm open to try this Gym Leader format if it ever came on TCG Live.

This has nothing to do with meta, there are always going to be meta decks because they're stronger. I'm talking about logical card design. You can find a lot of good and bad stage 2 pokemon in gen 3-4. The point is they all hit a certain area of HP compared to the ex and Lv. X pokemon respectively. For the ex pokemon example, stage 2 ex pokemon would have around a 30-50 hp difference than a regular stage 2. In this format the HP difference is 150. Look at a regular stage 2 with 180 HP (if you're lucky) and a stage 2 ex with 330. The attacks the rule box pokemon have almost ALWAYS do more than 180 to OHKO any regular stage 2 in one shot. We're talking about 2 and 3 energy attacks not 5 energy attacks that are meant to hit for crazy big damage. This is an imbalance and as far as I understand it it is done on purpose. Same with the small basic pokemon still in the 60-70 range like this is 2010.

Yes, that's how it was pre gen 5. Even if they are not playble they should at least be workable, if powered up they can take a hit and dish out standard damage for the energy costs in the era. That's how it was with even the most plain and average pokemon in gen 3-4.

If aren’t going to get this with ANY card game

I remember a hisuian arcanine being around but I'll have to check what it does again.

They can give the regular stage 2s fancy arts too. Whatever the case or excuse this is always going to be crap gameplay design.