2004 was when things got wacky for me. The labels became soooooo important 🙄💢 It's a hot mess. People will hate and judge. It's in EVERY SCENE TOO! Which is crazy. I'm just learning about hiking drama 😅 Can't fix stupid

so glad you talked about this!

Tbh I can’t help but feel like the ppl making those comments are little 12-16 year olds. The irl goth community it’s where it’s at. I hope when you move you feel more welcomed bc it’s completely different in person. Where I am there’s a pretty big goth community and if there two people in trad goth attire it’s a lot

You should check out psychobilly... More about fun. Less judgmental and a cooler subculture, in some ways, to me.

You complain about it being gatekeep-y and how it should be about community and acceptance but then go on to say you can’t be alternative and conservative… if it’s about rejecting the status quo, that’s going to vary generation to generation. Leftism had definitely become more popular in recent years and I feel like people are challenging that now with more conservative views. Just something for you to think about.

I don't mind being part of the online community, but I just do my own thing and pay no mind to all the drama. I don't always goth all the time!

also i think with people posting so much aesthetic content online people think goth and alternative people just wake up with a full face of makeup on, fully dressed with accessories… when in reality most goth people don’t “look” goth 24/7. and unfortunately this also leads to the fetishization of goth women. but i don’t really know what the solution to that would be.

Finally someone said it 🙌

I guess there were copyright issues with this video? We can’t hear anything you’re saying anymore… we hear a tiny bit of the intro and a couple seconds when the guy shows up 😞 that’s unfortunate but the make up looks amazing

As I can see it also happens worldwide. 😂 Here in my country it happens exactly the same!

same with the emo scene can't be emo or scene unless you dress it... like what???

That true

I’m not in this community at all besides some appreciation for music/style, but I definitely see this in subcultures I’m more present in. I started watching your videos for makeup content but subscribed because I liked your personality/genuineness

I feel like all these subcultures became a joke because people like to gatekeep everything. You are not goth enough because of x reason, you are not alt enough because of x reason, you are not etc. And especially after goth/alternative style has become popular among kids and teenagers on TikTok

Been goth for almost 10 years and the online gatekeepers have gotten worse now, i used to feel like i had to prove i was "goth enough" but now i don't worry about that. Goth is about music, not appearance.

i have a friend who is gothic... she luvs it

Been goth for 15 yrs. I literally just exit the apps / delete social media & these dumb made up problems don’t exist anymore. The gatekeeping, elitism, the selective, pickiness that the chronically online come up with, ceases to exist if you choose to exit yourself from that [scene]. It’s extremely rare nowadays that someone’s gonna go up to you & scream “poser” in your face irl. & honestly these young kids’ judgements about me mean nothing to me😭💀I just don’t care enough anymore. Anyway try to Live your life as positive & healthy as you can & like what you like!

I agree with you! I believe meeting a specific expectation to be “goth enough” is super limiting. Even Robert Smith experienced this. With his experience he decided to fight back by creating pop songs to demonstrate that he is more than what people perceived him to be and wanted to reduce the limitations of a single genre.

THIS 👏🏼 I’ve been part of the goth community for many years now, I’ve always tried to be welcoming & kind to newcomers of the subculture. Unfortunately, I had to delete tiktok because of some mean gatekeepy people.

I really don’t put myself in a group of any goths , I’m far too old to worry myself about these things but I know what you mean , I as an older goth welcome the younger goths aka baby bats, there so many types of goths these days it’s interesting to see it! I am now 46 and have been the way I am before anyone thought it was “trendy” I feel we should all just be ourselves and don’t care about the gate keepers etc…🖤🖤

I feel like the entire point of being alternative/goth is to not conform to societal rules/expectations, so it's never made any sense to me why some goth people try to set sooo many rules and standards. It just defeats the purpose.

I don’t think you need to apologize for who you are and it doesn’t matter where you come from or what your background is if you like what you’re doing and you feel good about being goth and alternative and wearing different styles and colors and listening to whatever music you feel at the moment then that’s what is important. Sometimes people are a little too brave online and say things they wouldn’t otherwise say to your face. I think people feel like because they are hiding behind a screen that it’s okay to say hurtful and harsh things to others without understanding that what they’re doing is causing harm. Or they know and just don’t care and that’s even worse.

Never realized that you really fucked up your eyebrows.

It's always been toxic since the dawn of time, ever since Myspace and vampirefreaks (when it was a social media) it's best to scope out the kind people and flock with them

Hey just want to say I love your content, and it brings me so much peace and joy. Keep doing you, the same way most of the iconic goth icons have. Elvira and Vampira wouldn’t give a shit what other people thought about their style. As long as you’re kind and respectful to those around you, that’s the most goth/metal thing you can be.

Um why can’t I hear anything

👄☠️🦇

I agree with you, I’ve been into the goth subculture since 2007 and I’ve seen a lot of elitism. I no longer label myself and put myself in a box, and I’m way happier! I like a lot of different styles too.

Literally why I can not download TikTok. Everything is scrutinized! Goth is a culture. It’s a lifestyle! It’s incorporated into everyone’s lives differently. Each is valid.

The online community for goth and just all the alternative subcultures seem so gatekeepy and toxic from what I've experienced. I don't really bother too much with the communities anymore because of it. Thank you for speaking up about it!!

I think it comes down to people trying to enforce stereotypes so hard and causing a divide. As many subcultures as there are that would be considered “alternative” why are they so divided and hateful towards others? If it’s about acceptance then we should be encouraging others to purse their styles, interests, and beliefs. That’s mostly a jab at the online community ^ People I have met in person that have similar styles or ideas/interest tend to be the nicest people I’ve ever met.

The online alternative community can be toxic as well, at least from my experience

what setting powder did you use ?

I hate the online community so much, as someone who doesn't label themselves because I simply don't care for it although I do have an "alternative" lifestyle and dress a certain way, yet I'm not even comfortable talking about liking mayhem anymore, immediately get called a poser. when I literally grew up listening to mayhem, and I know their lore yes, and I genuinely like their music. the goth/metal/scene/punk, etc.. community is so toxic, one can't even enjoy certain bands anymore without getting called posers. It's so annoying, like just let people enjoy what they enjoy y'all are not better than the rest of us lol

Yeah i really feel the not wanting to be confined to a box. I really love alternative subculture, but a lot of the online sub-sections of it (for me it's been goth, metal, hardcore) are so gatekeepy and unfriendly that i just don't really engage or participate in them as frequently as i use to. The fact that I listen to all genre's of music and switch up my style often (all my cloths are black, but i'll rock a Y2K type outfit one day then an emo one another and a streetwear type one the next) particularly bothers a lot of other people within the scene. They want you to only listen to one type of music and only wear one style of clothes and even then they'll nitpick about wether the band is really goth bc of the type of drums or if ur outfit is really trad goth if ur wearing a wallet chain 😩 like WHO CARES

Love this video, and good for you. How you feel is valid. Be prepared for the "I'm not racist" goths

Like what you have to say!!:❤

Subscribed like your make up!

I've been watching your videos for a long time now... it never seemed weird that you like other stuff that is not "goth"... the first part of your video you say people are basically always talking shit because i guess you're not a "picture perfect goth," but then you turn around and say you can't be goth and right winged conservative. Why do the same thing to other people? I dont see why you cant be goth and right winged? Some of the gothic style came from the church. Hints why some catholic church have gothic architecture. Goths wear a lot of crosses too. My point being it is stupid to label or put people in boxes.

Very good topic

I was literally waiting for someone to talk about this topic, I knew it wasn't just me

i never clicked this fast.. they are soooo toxic especially on tiktok like let people live

I also listen to all kinds of music genre and recently started listen to goth subculture music a few years ago and still learning newer music everyday, I've always been into alternative clothing and into spooky, witchy things so when it comes to my outfits I usually got for a romantic goth, alt witchy vibe. I was called a poser for my choice of style and makeup.

Wow you are gorgeous 🖤🖤🖤💯💯💯

I feel like a lot of these things are more of an online thing BUT online can still have an effect on real life in good and negative ways

Looks Amazing on fire 🔥 beautiful

Nah you're beautiful 🙏😭

The problem is I don’t have thad huge space between my eyelids and eyebrows so it won’t turn out the same :( What do I do ???

my one flex is that i saw mister robert zombie live

You are such a coward for deleting that thread lmao