what a sad podcast. the tone and feeling is evident. I hope shiloh comes back, never too late, bit he won't find happiness in academia

I wonder what 2004 and 2014 Shiloh would advise 2024 Shiloh. Hope he finds his way back.

Thank you for teaching me that contemplative practice is far more universal than I thought.

Thanks, men. Glad I came across your channel.

Two great quotes from this: “The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.” (Mark Twain) and "The terror of meaninglessness, of falling of the edge of knowledge is greater than than the imagined fear of falling off the edge of the earth." (Jeffrey Burton Russell)

I liked the definition of grace = kindness or love. Also that the Holy Ghost knows what we mean when we pray even when not able to express it clearly knowing that Holy Ghost will carry our meaning, pleading, etc. to God.

Get out of that crazy cult guys and take your knowledge to a Good Church somewhere!!

" be still and know that I am God ".....quiet contemplation is a treasure in itself....it is through this means we unlock truths around us that are simply not obvious or even available to the maddening crowd. Love your work . I have retained a treasure that will increase light to the world as regards the Saviour's "walk on water ". This , I will only share with a great artist. I am confident that when brother Olsen portrays this truth on canvas, it will flood the minds of all those who are privileged to view it. HEBEL EST OMNIS ADAM

Meditate for 20 minutes per day. If you do not have that much time, meditate for 60 minutes.

Breathe with intention.

Beginning with nothingness is to consider yourself Adam or Eve. No one to teach you. No church, no priest, no process to follow. just you and the garden and God.

Thank you for the wonderful presentation on the works of Richard Rhor. It was so uplifting .

😃 P r o m o S M

Thank you for allowing me into your conversation. I am particularly intrigued by the story among the Gadarenes and why Jesus would travel so far and through so much peril to address JUST this one possessed individual. To me, it is heartening that the Lord would go out of his way for the "one" no matter how difficult or how far.

Very good episode, I have shared it with some friends. You guys are an important voice and I appreciate both your scholarship as well as your spiritual insights.

Our consumption of certain modes of education - you brought up "squishy" ethics - we largely are failing our children in the education system with a lack of emphasis on philosophy and ethics - not programming them WHAT to think but HOW to think and to reach ethical conclusions. Many of us supplement public education with home education or possible even completely homeschool, but we need to get ethical ideas more mainstream.

Also, Jungian shadow integration is also a call to adventure. It is kind of an ultimate and never-ending quest.

Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time - all modern epic examples

I too have been so positively impacted by the wisdom and discernment of Fr Richard Rohr. The way he points beyond the symbol to spiritual substance helped me in my transition beyond the fundamentalism and biblical literalism of my youth. I especially enjoyed his book “The Naked Now: Learning to See Like the Mystics See.” Meanwhile, one of the first major mystical influences in my life came through the writings of Fr Thomas Merton. Books like “New Seeds of Contemplation” and “The New Man” were profound. They likewise introduced me to older mystics such as St Teresa of Avila (“The Interior Castle”) and St John of the Cross (“Ascent of Mount Carmel”). And from that launching spot, the Perennial Tradition brought Wisdom from far and wide. My faith eventually became so much bigger than any one box of ideas or religious allegiance could hold. Finding camaraderie across faith traditions has become a real joy. So thank you for bridging the gap across the LDS tradition as well. This was a beautiful episode! And Jana was such a delight to listen to. Christ is not Jesus’ last name. Paul never met Jesus. 30 minutes in, this discussion of “Christ in us” is so pivotal! Loved it!

After being a student of Fr. Richard Rohr for many years, I've realized that Contemplation is, Taking thought out of your head and bringing it Down to you heart!!!.... The mind has many boundaries and Heart Thinking Is Boundless!!!

I don't know if you'll get into this, but I thought I'd type it up before I lose the thoughts. I'd like to dig into the daily life and the context that goes with this study in a bit of a comparative way. This may be a good place and time to kick it off. Specifically, I'd like to understand the map better. What are the population sizes? How did they interact with each other? What did they eat? How often did they eat together? How often did they travel and for what reasons? What was family life like? Even to the extent of potentially understanding intimacy and the frequency of sex. How much do we know about how a young person would view life? What was the education level? What was the seasonal life like? Who and what were they afraid of and why? Who did they know and respect? How accurate are our records if we were to guess at percentages? Do you have some good sources that a person who may not have a lot of time can pursue? It seems there ought to be some decent KZbin videos that perhaps we are not aware of but that you have found, yes?

From what I understand, Jonah ministered to a community that worshipped a fish god.... therefore making him so much more significant because he was vomited by a fish and the people he ministered to worshipped a fish god....no?

I can vouch for what a great talk that was, Ben. You should publish it. Thank you for drawing the parallels between Enoch and Jeremiah in this broadcast.

Thank you for your observations on different levels of reading texts: Literal, Mystical/Allegorical (moral/anagogical) and Historical. It makes me think of one more level. That is through inspiration or revelation, as in the way Joseph Smith read the Golden Plates or the Abraham papyri. You need to the gift of the Holy Ghost to help you sort through these difficult texts of Hebrew that may be written in Classical Arabic script or even Reformed Egyptian. How else could anyone have understood it? Another interesting set of texts are the موشح muwaššaḥ or jarchas that were written in Romance (liminal Latin/Spanish) but in communicating Arabic or Hebrew in a time in Spain when all three languages were in wide liberal use. It took highly educated linguists decades to figure these out. Even then, just as with Jesus' parables, is it a story about man attacked by robbers on the side of the road or an allegory for the Plan of Salvation? I'm of the belief that the Song of Songs have many of us are unable to see. BTW - Carly Simon sings, "You're so vain."

Awesome episode! Can anyone point me to the 179 doctrines and 330+ citations in the NT that comes from the Apocrypha?

Thank you for doing this extra episode on the Song of Songs and bringing out the meaning of the allegory between the bride and the bridegroom in its mystic sense. I have an issue with the statement "there are X words for "love" in Greek" or in any other language for that matter, because of the semantic bleaching that has occurred with the current use of "love" in modern English. There are so many intended meanings that one intends to convey with the word "love" in our day that it really doesn't mean anything at all? Can you really say you "love" God when in the next sentence you say you "love" ice cream? or that you "love" it when someone makes a mistake because then it makes me look better, etc. ad infinitum. If anything, the Song of Songs allows us to explore what we mean when we say we love God and we say we love our spouse with the same lips. Where is our heart/hart?

You are aware your church covers up sexual abuse that’s been done against children aren’t you?

phil is always interesting

Beautiful episode, special guest brought a great spirit to this discussion of Esther. Thank you guys for all you do!

I'm enjoying your podcast, this one was great.

These are always such beautiful conversations, thank you for making the world a better place.

@Latter-day Peace Studies: please stop being so unintentionally (hopefully) cryptic. What are you talking about when in episode 91 you say that some event is "ascribed to 'r'", and this other event happens "according to 'P'", and then you bring up something about 'j'. What does all of that refer to?

You lost me talking about a "J" story and a "P story. What was that about?

The interpretation of 3 Nephi 9 runs counter to the book of Mormon's testimony of 3 Nephi 9. It is not a greater view, it is a distortion based on forcing the scripture to fit into one's own idea. And anything that runs counter to that idea of God is dismissed as a 'fickle' and 'weak' God. :( If you hate something, don't you do it, too.

Best. Episode. Ever. So enlightening. It changes so much, along with 3rd Nephi 9,10, 11. Thank you. Be well.

Thanks, Gents

Shiloh and family left the church a good while before they made it official. I'm happy for them that they have gotten closure. I also have left the church in spirit but haven't made it official.

Thank you for the Steven Mitchell book mention. Also, "how to use the Bible" portion at the end of the podcast was extremely helpful. Thanks, gentlemen.

Great podcast, one of your best episodes!

The temple teaches us to seek the face of the Lord in this life.

Temple sealings were altered after Joseph was murdered.

one of my favorite themes - listening now :)

Regarding what you were talking about around the 39-minute mark... not only can we unseal the books from other traditions - but we can also learn things from those other traditions that unseal our own scriptures to us. Things that were unclear or difficult can become plainer when viewed thru the lens of another tradition. I hate to sound like a business seminar, but there is literally a synergy that can become a "virtuous cycle" of increased understanding.

And by "best" I suppose I mean "confirms my own biases"....

One of your best episodes. Great job!

Thank you Shiloh, for sharing your wisdom. Wishing you all the best with your studies and looking forward to finding more of God in the cracks with Ben and Christopher.

I have no idea if anyone reads this, but I will take the liberty to share my thoughts here. One of the things we all have to come to terms with is our expectations of others. When people ask, "How could God allow suffering in the world?" we have to ask ourselves, "What kind of a God are you expecting?" The same with prophets - "What are you expecting from prophets?" Why do we have this notion that prophets need to be knights in shining armor or supermen? Can we receive truth through imperfect servants of God? That's all we have! The scriptures are full of prophets who have shared profound truths about the eternities and yet exhibit troubling character flaws, Moses and Nephi had both killed individuals in hand-to-hand combat that was not necessarily even handed; Paul openly admits his shortcomings and past sins as did Alma. David, while the quintessential adulterer also provided some of the most beautiful scripture on record, Jonah taught a profound lesson on evasion and repentance, and so on and so on. The most important job we have is to seek the Father's will for our own personal salvation and work it out with fear and trembling. "Except in the case of His only perfect Begotten Son, imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it. So should we. And when you see imperfection, remember that the limitation is not in the divinity of the work." - Jeffrey R. Holland. One more thing, there is a LOT of depravity, deception and debauchery in today's world that makes whatever we judge Joseph to have done pale by comparison. I try not to be guilty of squinting at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

I prefer "sensei" to "guru" b/c sensei means "one who has gone before". And mentor is a great word!

Mater Kirke is fine for mother's milk, but not meat - makes perfect sense.

Where's the rest of the conversation?? This was SO GOOD!