I had typed a rather detailed response and with the stroke of one unintended key it was lost. Would you please call me at (623) 377-3071 at your convenience. Now would be fine.

I think I can understand your position regarding one resurrection. To begin, I need to ask a few questions. Do you believe that some of the redeemed will live in heaven and some of the redeemed will live on earth? Do you believe there is a difference between the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Christ and the Apostles preached, and the Gospel of the Grace of God which is found only in Paul's epistles? The members of the Body of Christ who have died do not come to earth, they receive their celestial bodies, from heaven, in an instant, in the air. And, virtually simultaneously, the members of the Body of Christ, those living on earth, are changed in an instant as they are caught up in the clouds. I believe our body from heaven is a celestial or heaven body. I don't know about a "spirit" body. Do you have a reference for that?

@@markjjd Thanks for the reply. I would say the celestial body and spirit body is the same. In heaven we have a celestial/spirit/non-material body. I don't know who first claimed 1 Thes 4:13-17 is a pre-trib event. I don't believe it was Darby or Scofield. Do you know who first claimed it? I own a 1917 and 1967 Scofield Study Bible. Both state it is the second advent (aka second coming). Both believed the pre-trib rapture was detailed in 2 Thes 2. I have books by Ryrie, Walvoord and LaHaye. They all claimed 1 Thes 4 is pre-trib and Luke 17 was a post-trib event. I think that is backwards. I also have the Dictionary of Premillennial Theology (thetruthsource.org/john-darby-pre-tribulation-rapture-theory/). As far as who will stay in heaven during the millennium, I don't know. If they are taking volunteers, I am going to stay in heaven 🙂 On the surface, I do not see a difference between the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Christ and the Apostles preached, and the Gospel of the Grace of God.

@@onetakendotnet I believe the our differences in interpretation arise from a hermeneutical difference regarding 2 Tim. 2:15 "rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I believe that God has related to man under several divine administrations. One of the primary administrations began when God chose Abram and began dealing specifically with and through Abram, Isaac, Jacob, and his 12 sons. When God's chosen people rejected the message of Peter and the apostles, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed a message to the apostle Paul which had been hidden from before the creation of the world. If it had been hidden, the 12 apostles certainly didn't preach it nor did Christ while He was on earth. Their message was about the coming Kingdom that God had promised Israel and none of the apostle had any understanding about the impending death of Christ on the cross. Paul was entrusted with the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery and it is by his gospel, the gospel of the grace of God, that we are established. The apostle Paul is clearly recognized in the Scriptures as the "apostle of the Gentiles." My eschatology concerning the Body of Christ is based upon this distinctive revelation that was committed to the apostle Paul and, therefore, we have differing views about these things. I believe my citizenship is in heaven, my eternal celestial body is in heaven, my home is in heaven. On the other hand, I believe the Messianic saints were looking for a king and an earthly kingdom where their Messiah will reign over them for eternity. Therefore, I believe our views differ according to our position on rightly dividing the Word of Truth. We both are presently convinced that our positions are correct and I believe only the Spirit of God can correctly align our understanding to the truth of His Word. It is my prayer and submission to God is that He would teach me the truth. I trust that would be your prayer also. I know that one day He will straighten out all of our ignorance and we will all be in perfect agreement. Until that day, my faith rests totally in Him and not my own knowledge or abilities. I thank God for you desire to know the truth.

@@markjjd Thanks for the reply. I think words have meaning, and for the most part we can trust the English translations. I like that Dispensationalism pushes literal interpretation. If the plain sense makes sense don't look for any other sense lest you wind up with nonsense like Augustine. However, sometimes you have to look closer at the Greek. Modern dispensationalism discounts the gospels by saying they are only for a Jewish audience, not for Gentiles. I think that is hogwash. The gospels are for believers regardless of ethnicity. God talks to believers. Jesus was talking to believers in Matthew 24. The wicked ignore him. I believe Luke 17:22-37 is for believers. it is not a post-trib event if you take a closer look at the Greek (paralambano).

@@onetakendotnet "All Scripture is God-breathed or inspired..." and so I don't discount any of It. But I do desire to obey 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Therefore, without diminishing Christ's earlthly ministry in any way, He chose Saul (Paul) to take a message to the Gentiles and that message is the Gospel of the Grace of God or the mystery (secret). This is the message by which we are established today. Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, All the Scripture, being inspired, is for us being "profitable for doctrine..." , but not all Scripture is written directly to the Body of Christ. Paul is the apostle who was sent to the Gentiles and it is in his epistles written to the saints, the members of the Body of Christ where we are given the words of Christ directly to us today. (Gal 1:1-12; Eph 3:1-12) I believe my position can be supported with the Scriptures and I believe you feel the same way about your position. Therefore, it is only the Spirit of God who can teach us what is the truth. That is my desire, that I might "be a workman who needeth not to be ashamed..." This is my prayer: Philippians 3:8-14 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. In His love, Mark

I am in total agreement with what you have expressed concerning the coming Kingdom. But that kingdom on earth does not encompass of revelation concerning the Church, the Body of Christ which has a heavenly citizenship. The gospel of the grace of God which is found in the revelation given by the exalted Lord Jesus Christ to the Apostle Paul declares a heavenly future for the members of the Body of Christ.

@@markjjd Nowhere is there a separate destination for the church All believers (Jews and Gentiles) are heirs to the promise of Abraham Which is to inherit the world

@@markjjd Hello Nowhere is there a separate destination for the church All believers (Jews and Gentiles) are heirs to the promise of Abraham Which is to inherit the world

@@mitchellc4 Do you believe the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God? Do you believe that any of the redeemed will be in heaven? I ask this in order to better understand your position and for clarity in what you say.

@@markjjd Hello Mark No I don’t believe the destination is heaven The destination is the earth The Bible ends with Jesus and his people on the earth made new Is there a single verse in the Bible where the word “heaven” refers to the destination of believers?

Hi Mitchell, Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with everything you have expressed with the exception of your first sentence, "There is only one Gospel." If you are child of Israel and reject the commonly called New Testament, I can understand why you might believe that there is only one gospel. If this is your position, then my response will be based upon Scripture that you do not accept and, therefore, be easily rejected. Consequently, I will not go into great depth in my response at this time. Should you desire to have more information, please feel free to continue the discussion. Not that this is significant as a member of the Body of Christ, I am a Gentile. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (1 Tim 2:7; 2 Tim 1:11) Paul was entrusted with a gospel (good news) that was a mystery or secret that had been, up to that point, hid in God. 1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. Since Paul's gospel differed significantly from the "Gospel of the Kingdom," it was at that time and continues, yet today, to be difficult for some to accept. Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 2 Peter 3:15-18 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. The gospel Paul received from the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ is identified as the gospel of the grace of God. This is the gospel that is to be preached today. Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Galatians 1:8-10 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. The Gospel of the Kingdom is in accord with all the prophets declared and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Anointed One. He will establish His kingdom here on the earth and He will reign forever. The Gospel of the Grace of God is in accord with what was revealed to Paul by the ascended, exalted, glorified Lord Jesus Christ who is the Head of the Church which is His Body. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Mitchell, thanks for your interest in truth. Please feel free to continue our discussion and if you so desire, call me so that we can dialogue more directly. 623-377-3071. Have a great day. Mark

@@markjjd Hello You have to read the very next verse not stop Paul preached the kingdom Acts 20 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. ->to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom Preaching the gospel of the grace of God=preaching the kingdom It’s the same thing ->to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom It’s the same thing

@@mitchellc4 I understand how you can come to your conclusion from the translation that you are using for your position. It appears the manuscripts that the translators used do no have the last two words that are included in the Majority text: "tou theou" = of God. Your version ends with "kingdom" whereas the King James version ends with "kingdom of God." In either case, I don't believe Paul is stating that he preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. It is my opinion that he is using the "kingdom of God" in the sense of subordination of all creation the authority of God. I guess my question to you would be "What Scriptures do you use to give you the assurance of your salvation?" I do not ask this for any reason other than for clarity. I am not questioning your salvation, but I believe we are approaching the Scriptures with different hermeneutics. Mine is a dispensational hermeneutic that leads me to believe that the gospel Paul was given was a message that God had kept secret until it was revealed to Paul. It is my prayer to know the truth and I assume that is your prayer also. Therefore, it is not my intention to convince you to believe as I do. My conscience is clear but that certainly does not justify my belief. God is my judge and I can only trust Him in in my pursuit to: 2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. May God continue to bless you as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Him. In Christ, Mark

@@markjjd Hello So “preaching the kingdom of God” and “preaching the gospel of the kingdom” is two different things That’s what you’re trying to say? ? - The disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom after Jesus ascended to heaven Acts 8 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. The Book of Acts literally ends with Paul preaching the kingdom Acts 28 30 For two whole years Paul lived in his own rented place and welcomed everyone who came to him. 31 He continued to preach about the kingdom of God and to teach boldly and freely about the Lord Jesus, the Messiah.

@@mitchellc4 Yes, that is what I am saying. The context wherein the phrase is located impacts its meaning. Miles Coverdale, who was one of the earliest translators of the Scriptures into English wrote: "It shall greatly help thee to understand Scripture, if thou mark, not only what is spoken or written, but of whom, and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after." I believe this following this advice resolves many of the erroneously perceived contradictions that some people claim are in the Scriptures and goes a long way in alleviating the confusion that often arises from conflicting verses.

That is a challenging question, but here is what I believe. The position of the Gentiles in the Millennial Kingdom will be different than the position of the Jews. The promises of the New Covenant will be in effect at that time and so every Israelite will have the law written in his heart (Hebrew 8:10 and 10:16). They will "ALL" know God (Jer 24:7 and 31:34). Therefore, I believe that with the redemption of repented Israel, they will enter their kingdom and all will be eternally secure on the faithfulness of God. (Ezek 20 37ff).This same secure position will continue for all Israel when they abide in the Holy City on the new earth. The condition of the Gentiles in the Millennial Kingdom is much different. They do not have those same promises and therefore I do not believe they have the same security. Their interaction with God will be according to their obedience of faith. Many will believe in the God of Israel and be redeemed (Zech 8:20-23). But, all the Gentiles will not be redeemed and so when Satan is loosed for a season, he quickly finds a great multitude of Gentiles that are ready to join him in rebellion against the King. (Rev 20:7-9). I believe the Gentiles who are redeemed in the Kingdom are secured also by the faithfulness of God and will spend eternity on the new earth. I must confess that I have not studied out the ceremonial aspects of the law that will be practiced during the kingdom but I (without Biblical support) do not believe that there will be any blood sacrifices. I realize that there is much more to be learned concerning this topic but I will end this here. I realize there are various views regarding all this and I have just shared what I believe. Please feel free to contact me by phone if you have further questions or thoughts. (623) 377-3071 I thank God for your interest in His truth and for your insight into the mystery.

Thank you Pastor Mark for responding back. The subject of Gentile believers going into the Millenium is one that is not discussed much in christian circles or most churches for that matter. I believe that Matt. 25:32, referring the the "nations", is a reference to Gentiles and therefore, your position of a multitude that rebels at the end of the 1,000 years is easy to understand. Your teaching is clear, concise and scripturally supported. Thank you.

@@stevedamato5452 FOI Steve, we have a video conference Bible study on Sunday mornings at 9AM where online viewers can interact in the study. If you are interested please message me your phone number and I can put you on the program. We are going through Joel Finck's book, "The Mystery." If you should be interested, I would try to have you join a practice meeting prior to Sunday and that may help to clear up any connectivity issues.

Thanks for the encouragement. Where are you located?

Do you have something specific that is dead wrong or do you simply disagree with my understanding of these aspects of eschatology?

If I have said something that is not true, I apologize and would be sincerely interested in knowing what it is. I have no intention to malign or disrespect any person's faith. If I have spoken incorrectly, it is in ignorance and I would greatly appreciate correction. Thank you.

Hi Shane, thanks for your inquiry. I think I understand what you believe concerning the resurrection of the just and the unjust. What scripture backs up two resurrections of the just ? ACTS 24:15 reads that there shall be a resurrection of the dead , both of the just and unjust...I believe that resurrection of the just to which Christ refers (Luke 14:14) is the resurrection of the saints that will go into the Millennial Kingdom which was promised to Israel while the resurrection of the unjust (Acts 24:15) will occur 1000 years later when the unjust will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. I believe "the just" in Acts 24:15 is not limited to the saints who will live on earth, but also includes the saints that make up the Church, the Body of Christ. This latter group of resurrected believers, the Body of Christ, has a heavenly citizenship (Phil 3:20). THIS READS ONE FOR THE JUST...I don't believe it says "one" resurrection but "a" resurrection. I understand that to be saying the just will be resurrected and so will the unjust be resurrected. NOT 2,not3, not four different raptures like some are teaching twisting scripture to make the bible match their rapture doctrine... I am not aware that some believe in multiple raptures. No where in scripture Kjv do I find two separate times saved people get raptured which is the resurrection of the dead in Christ...As I understand it, the rapture is a word that represents the doctrine concerning the event where the Church, the Body of Christ (the physically dead in Christ and the physically living in Christ) is united in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thess 4:16, 17 and 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery (secret) ; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The Apostle Paul is revealing a secret, something that was not previously known or declared until the Lord revealed it to him. It is a component of the gospel of the grace of God and is specifically for the Body of Christ. It is part of our "blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). You may also answer another question how do all the saved get to heaven in Rev. Ch. 7. Please explain and use scripture to back it up...I don't have an answer for that. No where can I find two different times saved people are raptured or resurrected which is the same event without teaching something contrary to one scripture or going against what Jesus said in Matthew 24 or what Paul said in 2Thess.ch 2 ...I don't believe the rapture and the resurrection are identical terms. The rapture includes a resurrection involving the dead in Christ who will live in heaven, whereas the resurrection that occurs at the second coming of Christ to earth will be for all the dead saints who will be entering into the Millennial Kingdom. I believe the reason that we have different views regarding this subject has to do with how we approach the Scriptures, how we understand 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. I believe that God has ordained two distinct futures, one for the earth and one for heaven. Primarily having Israel as His chosen people here on earth and having chosen the Church the Body of Christ as His heavenly people. All the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. It is all written "for us", but it is not all written "to us". Paul was chosen by God to be the apostle to the Body of Christ, the apostle to the Gentiles and He tells us that Jesus Christ is to be preached according to the revelation of the mystery. (Rom 16:25) Many people are confused as they see what appears to be contradictions in the Bible, but understanding right division removes, not all, but most of the perceived contradictions. I hope this helps you understand why I believe what I believe concerning this subject. I am not saying I am right. I am saying this is simply what I believe the Scriptures teach. I could go much more in depth with Scriptural support for why I believe these things. And I realize that many who don't believe this way can give Scriptural support for their faith as well. Therefore, I don't mean to be argumentative in this. I respect your right to believe what you do and I am not saying you are wrong. God is our Judge. If you desire to continue this pursuit together, I pray that we can do so in love with a sincere desire to know truth. Please feel free to call me if you would like to discuss some of this verbally. Sometimes it is difficult to convey our thoughts clearly in writing. (623) 377-3071) May our hearts align with Paul's desire. Ephesians 1:15-23 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. I thank God for your interest in the Truth of His Word. Mark