Treeless saddles have their place. They typically still have seat gullets and pomal gullets, that make contact with the horse's withers and back. If the angle of contact is too narrow, you can still run into the same problems, because the gullets are stiff pieces of furniture. What you will need to do, is find the rate or angle of twist your horse has in its back, and find a tree that matches this. Then you will need to know how much rock your horse has in its back, as well as the width of its withers and spine. If you can match these, you will have better luck fitting your horse. Biggest saddle fitting issues is usually in the twist, rock, cap, flare, front gullet, and back gullet, but most people only ever talk about the front gullet width, and that is only one small part of the problem. If you don't know a good saddle fitter, you can try a flex tree saddle as they will flex around the horse, and bend into them. They wont last as long, because there is give in the tree. You won't be able to rope, or tie anything heavy to the saddle either, but they are fine of pleasure riding or trails, and such. They certainly have their place, but they will limit what you may wish to do with horse. Having a painless ride that supports your horse's back, is really what matters most, since the saddle can make or break the ride for your horse. I don't have a brand I enforce or anything, but getting with a good saddle fitter/saddle maker, who can explain these parts of the saddle fit to you, may be the information you need, that will turn your horse from being "hard to fit" to being an "easy to fit" horse. Since I started my saddle making journey, fitting horses became easy. Knowledge is nearly 95% of the battle.

If you are interested, make sure you look at the video I made about saddle fitting secrets the horse industry doesn't want you to know. In that video, I go into detail about these saddle tree fitting issues with demos, so you know what potential saddle issues to look for, when fitting a saddle to your horse. That might actually provide you with the information you need, to help your horse out. I wish you the best of luck, and if you have any questions please feel free to message back.

Thank you for replying! I will take a look. 😊

You are very welcome my dear!

@@KingsMom831 well thank you so much! I have 2 other KZbin channels, that stay much more active than this one. They are "That1FiddlePlayer" and "Basic Homesteading and Survival" so if you are interested in seeing more of my work, you are more than welcome to check out these other pages!

@@wa-kentaurians3050 That’s awesome! I’ll definitely check them out.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad I could be helpful!

Thank you so very much! I really appreciate the feedback!

Did the same man make these acorns? I have been looking

Oh i cant send a pic... It says the american and 1300 on the back

@@monicaconstantin5625 bona Allen saddles were sold by many retailers who stamped their own business name on. I have seen sheplers and some other names. The saddle rivets near the riggin D,s are- often have the B over A trade mark...

Yes, it is a little wonder tree, made by ralied. I didn't know who the maker was, but I'm glad to know it. Lots of ralied trees out there, but the older ones were junk. They make better ralied trees these days. Anybody can purchase a tree from ralide to make their saddles on, and lots of companies do it. The rigging set up is kind of up to the saddle maker. I've had to replace rear rigging panels in saddles before, so sometimes the rigging does change a from the original maker. I do like this saddle. I use it as a trainer, when I start horses, cause it is light weight, and holds the rider in well. Also, the saddle is well ballance. It's perfect for what I need it for. Thanks for the info on the maker. I appreciate it.

Yes, I believe it is

My videos are in more detail than others, so they take longer to do. I also strip saddles right down to the saddle tree, to bring you information, nobody else is willing to provide, and I do it for free. Its something you won't see in other saddle measuring videos, because I care enough about others, to give you the most information possible. This video would take even longer than 8 minutes if I were going to demonstrate how to measure the twist, rock, flare, and cap, and teach you how they play a big roll in saddle fitting, than what a gullet width is capable of doing. But if you don't really want to learn all about saddle fitting, you are welcome to look at other videos, that don't strip saddles to the tree, for your benefit and learning.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 Thank you for your response. I can certainly understand that others may be looking for information within the video that I may not have been. I do not want to come across as being critical or negative, overall your video was very informative and I greatly appreciated it. I’m happy that people such as yourself make videos so that when others need the information, it is available to them. I guess I only needed a few certain pieces of it and I felt that I had to watch the whole video to pick out the pieces that I needed. But please do not take anything as a negative, great video!

You bet!

You are correct, and in this video I talk about why. Unfortunately, you can't measure a gullet on an English saddle, because an English saddle's tree bars, are flocked and padded. Gullet width is based on the space between the saddle bars, and you can't measure that space, when it's filled in with flocking. The only way to measure an English tree gullet, is to do it, when all the padding and flocking is removed. I use my fist to help me eye ball the saddle tree angles, gullet hight, and general width, but it's definitely not a gullet measurement. Since I've fit saddles so much, and find them in random places that never seem to have a measuring tape handy, I've learned to use my fist as a general guesstimate. It's not a measurement, but for someone as highly experienced at fitting saddles, and repairing them, it is a good general estimate, in a pinch.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 a professor of mine used to say the same thing. ‘Knowledge gained is wasted if not shared. Cheers.

@@rwgoodship3653 that's the truth!

Glad you got some new information from this!

You are very welcome.

Thank you.

It drives me nuts as well.

This is a no name saddle. I have no idea who the maker is. Sorry.

Flex tree saddles have the same exact measuring points as all saddles in general. The cool thing about Flex tree saddles is they actually flex to the horses form, no mater what shaped back they have. That said, there is still a draw back, as not all flex tree saddles are flexible enough to fit all horses. Some Flex trees do a better job of adjusting to the horse than other types of Flex trees, because of their materials they were made of. Unfortunately, when buying a Flex tree saddle, your not going to know how truly flexible it really is, until you try it, so please follow standard saddle tree measurements, so you have a butter chance of fitting your horse. The only saddle I know of, that truly fits any horse, is a treeless saddle. Treeless saddles have no bars or trees you need to match to your horse, so you can literally feel the horse under you at all times. Best 100% fit all horses type of saddle on the market! Please do not use treeless or Flex tree saddles if you plan on doing any heavy work like roping. These saddles are not made for the hard stops and pulling weight limits necessary, to take down a steer, and will rip in half right out from under you. They are a great trail, endurance, horse training, barrel racing, and basic everyday riding saddle, but they are not made for ranch working. I hope this was helpful.

@@wa-kentaurians3050 thanks for that really great information!!!

Unfortunately there isn't one. To measure a tree in all its aspects properly, you need to know how to make a saddle tree. You will need to know, about the rock, flair, twist, and cap, and angles at which they are put together. There isn't a measurement for these, when the saddle tree is already inside a saddle. The flees, flocking, padding, and leather cover it up, and all will change how the saddle fits. The best way to know if a saddle is going to fit, is to put it on your horse, because only the saddle tree makers use measurements for cap, flair, twist, and rock, on every saddle bar of the trees they make.

Normally use a flexicurve or a gullet guage. depending on the saddle could also have an adjustable gullet bar which is simply taken out and swapped for the correct profile of your horse

Yes, that will give you a gullet measurement, but you still have the back gullet, twist, and flare, which create just as many saddle fitting issues as the gullet can. You can measure some points on a saddle tree, but not all of them. Since English saddles are flocked and padded, so unless you remove everything, you really can't measure most of these points.

If you want to measure a saddle tree, you will need to measure a Gullet width, back gullet width, rate of twist, rate of flair, seat size, and bar length. You can't measure all of those points when it's covered in saddle leather and padding. Do you want to measure a saddle tree, or do you just want to measure the 2 saddle gullets?

Also look up another video i have listed, as it goes into more depth on what a rock, twist, and flair is on a saddle. most saddle fitting problems, are cause by those issues, on a saddle bar. its called "saddle fitting secrets the horse industry doesn't want you to know." good luck, and i hope this helps you with your saddle fitting questions for your riding buddy!

@@wa-kentaurians3050 thank you