I haven't gotten into deltarune speculation in a while, but I saw this video and something about it really hit the nail on the head for me. I'll be sure to check out Oblivion Theory!

the fact that dark worlds have history from before their 'creation' is really fascinating. i love the parallel between our worlds and the light world - their world has existed for a while, but only through our connection to it does the game 'come alive'. in the sense that smth akin to the dark worlds have always existed; the physical object influencing the personality of the darkner and the personality of the darkner influencing the light world object, a sort of equilibrium. But when we 'create the dark world', when we cast the light world objects in the bubbly shadows, all thats left IS the darkners corresponding personality, thus they are no longer tied to the objects use - they achieve ultimate will. maybe this would explain how spade king, queen, spamton all 'go against' their objects uses during the plots of the chapters. Also another thing about kris - instead of just feeling lost in a world they feel they dont belong in, the attempts with the occult+the possible deal kris made could be more connected to them trying to find Dess. Who knows, maybe throughout chapter 1 and 2 they realize that Dess most likely got lost in a dark world, or something similar to a dark world, and thats why Kris is trying to tell the police about these worlds - so that they continue the search for the missing girl. Also idk if you have seen spookydoods devils heaven video but it absolutely changed the way i see things. I dont think youre too keen on knight kris tho... In spookydoods theory video the idea that Kris makes a deal with gaster/gaster equivalent is taken to the next level - kris agrees to be the knight plus maybe go thru a test run, in order to push their search for dess, and our created character WAS supposed to be our controllable character (but for whatever reason got discarded. The vessel is probably the reason for this. Originally i though Maybe Kris felt guilty last minute about us bringing a character with 0 agency to life? i doubt thats it LOL). Anyways if the TEST run theory is true, then it would explain the cage, but it would also explain why Kris quickly realized what we are/how to hide things from us. they continue to be the knight, in order to hold up their end of the deal - the continued 'fictional story' gaster wants to be set up. But then maybe during chapter 2 they realize hiding their knighthood is useless, thats why they create the dark world in front of us? idrk about that part.. to tie this into oblivion theory - maybe when the vessel is discarded, and we latch unto kris, its a complete role swap, so the vessel becomes the knight and kris the playable character. This leans into the whole Kris-feels-helpless theme. They make a deal, thinking they will be creating fountains after the test run, but instead get screwed over big time because now we control their soul. Now idrk whether or not the the character creation sequence was directly to create the vessel for knighthood or not, to me whats important is that Kris thought they would be the knight. They would still attempt to let the police know about the dark worlds, and maybe when they find out how to create dark worlds from the ch2 ending experience, they're like 'fuck it, let me do this myself'. Anyways i hope my comment makes even a little bit of sense!! This was a great video and a great recap+recontextualization of all the major theories for deltarune!! i loved watching it, cant wait to revisit once chapter 3 and 4 come out

Ah, yes, the Deltarune prediction Gasterclass

1:17:56 “Three heroes appear to banish the angel’s heaven” Us, the player, we are the angel, we go into Deltarune, we play the game to escape the world, it is OUR heaven, we go INTO the dark worlds to experience all of these adventures not out own, the Dark worlds are OUR heaven, the dark worlds are the sole reason we play Deltarune, they are the only reason that Deltarune is a game to begin with, without it, it’s just “Explore hometown and talk” so when the three heroes seal the fountains, when they BANISH the fountain’s if you want to call it that, they banish the Angel’s heaven, they banish out way of entertainment, and the chapter ends only a little after that, as a matter of fact, everything after the dark world is optional, you can just skip everything and everyone in hometown and go directly to the Dreemurr house, this even aplies to the start of the game, if you already played it once, by going into bed you skip the intro cutscene, in Ch 2 even skip Castletown, since it's something you already explored, you alredy know, the only focus of the game, the only part that CAN NOT be skipped in any way, is playing through the Dark worlds, wich are the Angel's heaven, OUR heaven.

I just read Oblivion Theory and man... what a beautiful thing, I truly believe that this is what Toby wants to convey with Deltarune, congratulations to wandydoodles. ❤❤

You know instead of putting it all in Google doc you might as well do a Google presentation so it makes it more easier for you to be on the next slideshow

Interesting

i rarely write comments, but damn, a 2 hour video with "just good theories with no reason" on my favorite game just couldn't let me go without me writing this comment

About the weird route and the whole thing about Noelle breaking games in a creepypasta way, I personally don't think there will be another weird route with another character other than her, because the whole point of her (as a character) having this ability is probably so she can find Dess. The thing is, Dess disappearance seems like a side thing that you can easily skip in a normal playthrough, and most people I've seen play the game didn't even realize Noelle had a sister to begin with. In chapter 1 Noelle mentions her name and many didn't even get to read that dialogue, and it's true that chapter 2 is much more obvious about it since this Dark World for some reason revolves around Noelle so it makes sense that Dess is mentioned a lot more because she is her main concern, but still a lot of people don't realize this. It's always "who is Dess that she keeps talking about?" or "wait, Noelle has a sister?". You have to piece together that Dess is December, that she's missing, that Noelle is constantly looking for her and searching on the internet for answers, that's why she got nervous at the spelling bee, etc, not to mention her blog on the Spamton Sweepstakes. This makes me think that Dess is just a secret than a main part of the story, because I doubt that Toby will make the average player search for things outside the game for the answers in order to understand the main story. Now, the fact that in the weird route you basically skip everything related to Dess made me think that although you are actually using Noelle's ability to be able to "break" the game, maybe we will find Dess but it will not end in the way we expect. I think this is the only way to find her, but this is going to slap us in the face like... you don't care about her, you don't care about helping Noelle, you just want to feel the satisfaction of finding a secret in a game, because that's what she is for you, a secret in a game, not a person who needs your help, and you are capable of doing everything in your power to achieve it, even if it means using her childhood friend to manipulate this poor girl into doing horrible things, and now that technically you did not bring her closer to her sister, on the contrary, you didn't let her remember her and talk with Kris about their adventures together, you put her in a trance to awaken her powers and then attack and probably kill her best friend just because it's the only way to get out of the stipulated, to have other choices to make than just follow the normal route. The moment you find Dess she will realize what you did to Noelle and she will fight you. This probably won't end in a happy ending and aside from Dess not coming back anyways, everyone will know what you did. They will banish you from the game, just like it will happen in the normal route, but without ending in a favorable way because everyone had to go through traumatic experiences for no reason, just because of the greed of the player who wanted more content. Susie with her trust issues will have doubts about whether Kris is really her friend or not and if they were part of all of this. It will never be the same again and they will part ways. Ralsei will disappear when you close his fountain. Berdly is probably dead or in a coma. Noelle will go insane after everything you've put her through and loosing her sister twice, but this time forever. And an end like this where you have to fight a very secret boss, who's actually what remains of the sister of one of the protagonists after she spent years trapped in the void, and then everything goes wrong for every single character, makes sense in a creepypasta kind of way. Also, I feel that all that about banishing the angel's heaven will be something like what happens in Mother 3, [spoiler alert for a game from over a decade ago], because at the end, after Lucas pulls out the last needle and the world starts to get destroyed, the screen goes black and says "End?", but then when you move it starts to show dialogues of different characters telling you that they actually survived thanks to you (the player), that they are all there but for some reason you can't see them anymore as if you had gone blind after the attack. It would be interesting if something like this happens in Deltarune these dialogues will change depending on what you did. It will make sense to me since "there is only one end" and "there are more important things than reaching the end", because depending on what you do, just like in the neutral route in Undertale, the characters will end up one way or another.

tfw Deltarune 3-4 releases before Silksong

I don't understand what makes Kris Knight unpersuasive to so many people. Or, rather, what makes it *less* persuasive than alternatives with, let's face it, less concrete evidence. Edit: Okay, Goner Knight is a theory I can get behind. Still, I feel like too much focus has been put on the Knight's identity instead of its motivations, and _if_ Kris is the Knight, I think that gives us the most interesting questions to explore about the "why" of it all.

"relatively soon" in toby fox terms might be another 2 years 😭

I am so god damn excited for more Deltarune and I am certain it will be sooner than we think given how pessimistic many of us have become regrding the release

Kris can be a knight without being the roaring knight though. I doubt the knight's goal is just to cause the roaring. Imo there are multiple knights where one knight is going against the prophecy while the other knight wants to cause the roaring.

i feel that deltarune will be toby's rebuild evangelion. toby has said that they won't be able to recreate the feelings we felt in undertale, as anno cannot recreate the feelings we felt while watching nge. it's also an interesting parallel because both rebuild eva and deltarune are parallel worlds/timelines to their original medias, and both have the theme of escapism through fiction. deltarune won't provide the same feelings, but some kind of closure to undertale/deltarune's mysteries and finally give undertale/deltarune fans a chance to.. not theorize endlessly

KZbin getting real comfortable with the 18 ADS I GOT.

The analogy of Ralsei to a cult survivor is inspired tbh

3:56 Then why did they take the soul out to open the dark fountain?

Very good video overall and it really opened my eyes to a LOT of stuff I didn't know/hadn't considered abt Deltarune and the future chapters, but I just want to point out that your art was GREAT, especially the one at around 30:00! Keep up the great work!!!

35:49 THAT'S OOMF!!!!

i am so excited to see how wrong we all were

I’m pretty sure that when Sans says he “gave up trying to go back” he was talking about trying to return to the mental state he was in before finding out about the saving and loading system, not a location.

20:37 One thing I hadn’t considered until now is how Ralsei being the red horn headband may influence his odd behavior, much more than the years of isolation or Gaster (I say as someone who loves a good gaster connection!) Given that the objects darkners are manifestations of tend to influence their personalities (rouxls kaard, adisons, jevil) , being the physical embodiment of a child’s insecurity and desire to belong in their adoptive family would make someone super passive, agreeable, apologetic, etc. I think that his oversimplified view of friendship and conflict resolution is a projection of how Kris felt they SHOULD be and act in the Dreemur family. Kris probably felt too weird, “dark”, and antisocial to fit in with their hyper warm and friendly, literally soft and fluffy family. I’m assuming when Toriel enters the TV dark world she will view the whole thing as a strange dream much like Noelle and Berdley, and I am interested to see how she interacts with Ralsei. I think she’ll feel motherly towards him, and grow fond of him as they may be not-so-coincidentally in sync and agree on a lot. However, everyone could gain some catharsis if Toriel attempts to redirect some of Ralsei’s more unhealthy worldviews, as they may reflect something Toriel inadvertently made Kris internalize about themselves. Too on the nose perhaps, but she is a notable nose nuzzler after all.

The letter also gives off Riverman vibes

I really think in chapter 3 and 4 will not have 2 secret bosses. Don't exactly why but in our Deltarune community, I think if we have 2 secret bosses one of then will be foreshadowed. Imagine if spamtom and jevil come out together, Spamton have more history, music and screen time than jevil. Resuming, I think Toby Fox will make only 1 secret boss for marketing strategy.

8:53 well at least you didn't bring up the closet flavour text, so I'll give you that.

41:41 I feel like The Man is potentially Gaster Follower 2, Not only is he the follower that tells us that Gaster was shattered across space and time AND uses unique dialogue which compared to 1&3 stands out as they are altered variants of eachother (Yes they do convey different infomation but half the insight they give was said by the other, word for word is in some lines), but he's also holding a suspiciously egg shaped head? And stating that, what he's holding, is a PIECE OF DR GASTER himself. Don't know about you but to me that feels a little too important given we now seem to be collecting eggs we can't see from a guy we can't see. Or it could also be a new Gaster Follower or someone else I just thought the connection was interesting. Btw Justice for Ficus Licker and Scared Donut Guy, feels so bad when people forget they exist independently of Follower 1&2.

Some of the stuff you said is SO INTERESTING I LOVE IT. Anyway here are some notes from me because I have ADHD Thoughts™ - The analogy of Ralsei being like a cult survivor actually makes a LOT of sense to me. Especially considering Ralsei's connection to the prophecy, the prophecy's ties to Gaster, Gaster's ties to Spamton... and Spamton's ties to religion (wanting to ascend to heaven and other notes that other Spamton fans would probably be able to explain more thoroughly). - YEAH!!! ANOTHER PERSON WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE BERDLY'S CRUSH ON SUSIE ISN'T GENUINE!!! World's most aromantic-without-knowing character ever. He'll figure it out at some point. - I DID NOT REALIZE THE IMPLICATION DELTARUNE STARTING RELEASE ON HALLOWEEN HAD ON THE ACTUAL STORY. Of course it's Halloween. It's the day where the spirit world and general supernatural is strongest when it comes to interacting with the 'normal' world. Of course. - I also prefer Gaster as not being evil (mainly because I don't think it makes that much sense for Undertale & Deltarune's writing, even Flowey has good moments). Definitely has the makings for him being morally gray. - Another addition for Gaster and Gerson's parallels is that in Fangamer's Undertale tarot card deck, Gaster was originally meant to be The Hermit, but Gerson replaced him instead. - I TOO THINK DESS IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE A GONER!!! (I also think Berdly in the weird route likely becomes one, considering he literally Died In A Dark World, but I'm not sure he'll actually show up again in the weird route.) - Not fully convinced that Rudy will 100% definitely die during the game's events. Post-game though? Yeah, he will pass at some point. - I'm so glad you also believe Mike will either not appear or will serve a different role than main boss or secret boss. I feel like it's the most sensible option. - I, too, was in middle school when Deltarune came out. Now in the mid-2020s I made my own analysis on some Deltarune characters in a Tumblr post. How time changes people.

Why is "Egg" a knights momvement in wingdings? Easy. The man behind the tree is fragment of Gaster, ya know, the one fractured across time and space. Therefore, if the main "shard" of Gaster, the one we presume ran the goner-maker sequence had created a Knight, then far off in his little corner of non-existence, the Man behind the tree made his own little "Knight" it is his gift to you

Do you plan to make a video on the new mystery game inspired by undertale called Tsunagari Chess School?

i really appreciate the subtitles :3

The closed captions are awesome! Kudos to the hard work put into it!

24:15 My theory is that Kris said “Proceed”

One theory by CammyboiG proposes that there are actually several knights, one for each chapter. Alvin boom: the strange knight. Mrs boom: the roaring knight. Kris: the silent knight. Susie: the dark knight. Asgore: the horned knight. Burgerpants: the pizza knight. Noelle: O holly knight

“HELL YEAH BIRDLY” “I have little to say about Berdly” “NOOOOOOOOO”

I think the "Your choices don't matter" is something like "In this world, it's kill or be killed" in Undertale. We were told this by Flowey from the start of the game, just like we were told about choices by Susie. And in the end, we're going to kind of refute it yk because, even if the ending is inevitable, it matters how you get there. Maybe the choices was the friends we made along the way?!?! Together we are DELTARUNE!!?

1:34:17 ah. A fellow man of culture

1:01:16 Adding to that, you can even keep the bouquet to yourself, like don't give it to Toriel so she will not throw it out at all, and the floral scent will remain the same. It just disappears from your inventory when Chapter 2 starts, though;( thought I could gift it to someone else...

1:13:16 c minor? We tend to call those oceans from where I’m from.

57:02 People keep saying "there's a pattern, there'll be new party members" is bad pattern recognition actually

1:01:07 But the discarded flowers can simply just not manifest as a talking flower and have more subtle flower motifs in their design

The danganronpa comparisons are so apt, I am hoping for a chapter 0 or 8 that’s about Gaster but your ideas for both of those are really solid

Going on my watch later because I LOVE HOUR LONG DELTARUNE RANTS MMMMM but its not *right* for the food im eating rn