21 күн бұрын
21 күн бұрын
Пікірлер
@asdqwe4427 Сағат бұрын
I think I would quit if I was on his team
@EzequielBirman77 2 сағат бұрын
51:19 made me smile very hard. -“What? In six months from now, I'm gonna have software and it's gonna do exactly what it does today!? - Eh... it's the best case...
@mickelobje 7 сағат бұрын
From this kind of dedication, lots of organizations can learn a lot.
@davedoan5684 8 сағат бұрын
Thank u so much for this presentation. Still worth for watching in 2025 and so on
@Urhsg1373 11 сағат бұрын
Sam always says he doesn’t want everything to be microservices. Proceeds to create another book about how to do microservices better. Also, don’t write such great books, maybe people will ignore them. Epic talk though
@erekhronmusic 11 сағат бұрын
What is the exact title of Sam's book?
@erekhronmusic 11 сағат бұрын
This was a pretty cool talk enjoyed it
@1over137 13 сағат бұрын
Developer satisfaction and retention are actually extremely important... when they manifest. I am in a team which is collapsing, there is no "software" knowledge in management which is a MSP / Conslutancy. They really don't know what they are doing and it's just getting worse and worse. Satisfaction and retention. Unsatisified developers are "down". They are not pro-active and engaging. They basically "quiet quit" until people start giving them work that can be done and is ready to be done. If developers leave then they leave with knowledge the team needs. If a critical mass of developers leave and the project does not have 100% complete documentation... then basically everyone has to re-learn everything all over again.
@wizardatmath 23 сағат бұрын
Turns out this was a great walk through introduction to elixir 🙏❤️
@vanlepthien6768 Күн бұрын
I'm sure "thinking" is a non-productive activity.
@GrigoryRechistov Күн бұрын
Great to hear Kent
@ReemHourieh-h2x Күн бұрын
If you are employer and believe in this talk and looking for a software engineer to hire, let me know. I'd love to work for you!
@BenjaminScherrey Күн бұрын
Yeah is this is an amazingly irresponsible report from the ultimate consulting group. Clearly they're reacting to the long held desire of bad managers (the kind who hire McKinsey for CYA value) who have always wanted to be able to measure individuals and can't manage people if they don't see them at their desk at assigned times. (I'm 100% for onsite work btw but for different reasons.) Good to see this called out so well.
@SaudBako Күн бұрын
We're still in the stone age of software
@henrikmalm4054 2 күн бұрын
Great stuff!
@craigiedema1707 2 күн бұрын
I work as a consultant doing software delivery. My favourite joke is "Sales are the deliverers of promises, Consultants the deliverers of dissapointments". Dave, as always, is excellent at getting to important things in software development.
@conman7644 2 күн бұрын
McKinsey is poison for companies and society as a whole.
@krelle1929 2 күн бұрын
Thank you. Nice video
@sismith5427 2 күн бұрын
I always question the idea of measuring business success by sales, number of new clients, or team productivity. Success is profitability, repeat business, client retention, and most importantly, client satisfaction with the outcome.... sales or internal productivity are terrible metrics for any of those factors. By business logic, cowboy builders are more successful than reputable builders, they sell more jobs, they do more jobs, and they turn them around in less time, and their margins are higher... they are in fact measurably 'more productive'.... But no one would say the cowboy builders were a better team, or the outcome was better business.... so is being productive or how many sales you make a good measure for success? A development team, as a simple example, could just write less tests, make the system more brittle, ignore tech debt, leave bugs that took to much time to fix, they could even just do the bare minimum work per story. That team would see a massive increase in terms of productivity. However would it have resulted in better products or outcomes?... no. All this crap about productivity goes against any concept of quality. You wouldn't ask a craftsman to triple their output, you know they take the right amount of time to achieve the right result... they are the experts. The focus should be quality, and the time required to achieve it.
@shalokshalom 2 күн бұрын
Why not Odin?
@gammalgris2497 3 күн бұрын
DevOps is an organisational answer to the wrong question. It's the barrier between dev and ops and test that is organisationally reinforced and creates communication problems and knowledge problems and delivers bad quality and bad feedback
@tttm99 3 күн бұрын
8:34 😂 I think I know that salesman. I think we all think we know that salesman... Or a salesperson like him. For me it was someone selling a particular kind of contract time - ongoing - for a 100 percent loss because they forgot a variable, didn't ask, and didn't care. Suddenly sales metrics weren't so popular anymore. It turned out executives did care about profitability...
@svnblm 3 күн бұрын
McKinsey is looking for Luigi to give them "United Healthcare" special !! 😁
@bhbr-xb6po 3 күн бұрын
Of course we love plusses in Switzerland! Our flag is a big plus sign!
@Q966aZxEWzmKLc8zBfMB 3 күн бұрын
Are we chefs or are we burger flippers? Are we artisans or assembly line workers? Are artists or just a pair of hands to paint by numbers? It's something for engineers to think as well. So many practices in the last decade have pushed us more towards the latter in all of these examples. When we presume our fellow devs to be so stupid that they can't use for-loops, that they are not even smart enough to place linebreaks at the right location, then _we_ proclaim ourselves as assembly line workers bound by a script and devoid of agency or creativity. Bring back the "art" in engineering arts or get replaced by stochastic parrots.
@gregsimoes8645 3 күн бұрын
If businesses want to measure developers like factory workers then ALL project assessment and definition work should be on project managers and then you can measure developers purely on production. (terrible idea btw) If developers have CLEAR and accurate "build X unit of work" directions then you can assess their work on how many X they built. But most developer work is "solve Y problem" and Y may be incredibly vague and subject to multiple changes before the work is done. Figuring out what Y is, IS the bulk of developer work. If managers want to improve developer efficiency, they should START with "how clear are the requirements given to developers". If developers need to get and refine the requirements themselves, then you need to figure out areas of excellence. One developer might be a slower/worse coder, but incredible at interpreting customer needs. Another might be a rockstar at coding, but awful at reading what the customer wants. Both of these might be equal if you just look at output, but your business would likely be MUCH better served if each was focusing what they are good at.
@ZapOKill 3 күн бұрын
The MBA is the natural enemy of the software engineer.
@Q966aZxEWzmKLc8zBfMB 3 күн бұрын
The MBA is the enemy of everybody. It's a parasite who exists to extract rent without contributing actual value, but vague promises of covering one's ass.
@NickKeighley 3 күн бұрын
I wrote a terrible review of the book. It lacks practical advice. Very little engineering. I gave it 1 *
@ehjapsyar 3 күн бұрын
I work in academia and we have pretty much the same problem. Measuring productivity and evaluating workers based on objective metrics is a modern illness that just doesn't work for many domains. In software engineering it can be measuring performance by counting lines of codes or hours worked. In research, it's research papers written each year. A researcher writing 10 bad or useless papers per annum is much more harmful than a researcher producing 1 good paper every couple years, yet the former will be rated as being way better. Just like how a programmer writing heaps of bad code is actually harmful to a project. It most probably comes from trying to apply management concepts to contexts in which they are irrelevant, because management/counseling firms aim at increasing their revenue by conquering new markets. In other words, corporate greed. It is even more absurd with academia, since these are concepts brought by managers from the private sector who believe that public services are also supposed to make money (they are not). I am pretty sure that converting these managers to actual engineers, working without management, would be a much more efficient use of working hours overall than the current paradigm. But that would require trust and competency.
@hobster07 3 күн бұрын
What a grifter
@SafeGuard-w8y 3 күн бұрын
you will have an ESB :)) kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIq6p4ePe9KJj9U
@alexander_herold 3 күн бұрын
Isn't this just the same video as on Dave Farley's channel just with worse audio?
@TomaszRykala 3 күн бұрын
The 9 woman analogy is terrible because there is a bottleneck of 1 womb, whereas you can scale your engineers' tooling, depending on what it is.
@username7763 4 күн бұрын
I love your story about the negative consequences of how sales people are measured. It too is something I've often seen throughout my career. Sales people are put under enormous pressure to make sales. They respond to those incentives by making some absolutely terrible sales for the company. I've been on quite a number of projects where the sale was a massive loss for the company. I've also been grumpy but how much unpaid overtime I was pressured to put in to make up for it.
@username7763 4 күн бұрын
Measuring software engineer productivity is like measuring electrical engineering productivity by number of circuit board traces. Is the design good? Does it make appropriate tradeoffs with constraints? These are qualitative things.
@monocledmanatee6355 3 күн бұрын
See, to understand it you need somebody who understands how those things - be it software development or manufacturing of LED lights - actually work. Instead you have either salespeople if you're lucky - those are ignorant, but usually things could be explained to them in small words and a lot of pictures. Showing them how it affects sales also helps tremendously - they won't become experts, but they'll learn enough to ask you for advice before implementing things, which really cuts down on the amount of misunderstandings, goof-ups and interdepartmental bad blood. With these, you have a decent chance to create some useful metrics that'll allow you to stay on track without dedicating most of your time to collecting the data for those metrics. Something simple, but useful. And then there are MBAs, who only know Business Administration. Those will be actively ignorant (that is, they'll actually unlearn things faster than you can explain it to them), won't understand anything except that The Curve Has To Go Up or The Numbers Must Be Increasing From Quarter To The Next Quarter. Implementing any sort of useful metrics with those is, in my experience, impossible. You either are in position where they can't get rid of you or you'd better look for a new job. Expect metrics about metrics about metrics and a lot of angry messaging about not updating The Spreadsheet Of Doom because of something laughable (like urgent last-moment shipment or ten).
@karlgustav9960 4 күн бұрын
You can argue that success does not depend on the right people. I also think that Brooks has a point, and I cite from the Mythical Man Month almost every day (Brooks’s Law, Conway’s Law and most of all “No silver Bullet”) but I think the right “Talent” is important. 9 Women can not produce 1 baby in one month, but 9 man can’t pull it off either. But one man and 9 women can perhaps produce 9 baby’s in 9 months? ;-) 😂 no seriously, if you hire a team of junior software developers to build a scalable ERP system, it’s not gonna happen, they will need to learn software development for years and that will cost the bulk of the projects funding without any useful output.
@Shanoro 4 күн бұрын
Awesome discussion! I think collaboration isn't focused on enough in our field.
@logiciananimal 4 күн бұрын
The philosopher of technology in me points out that individualistic approaches to almost anything are almost certainly going to be wrong, because we live in a world of systems, not isolated atoms. (Metaphysics is relevant!) But don't go too far the other way and go to holism. Systems thinking is the middle ground; the information systems literature embraced this explicitly a while ago with what they now call "Bunge-Wand-Weber" and it is also found in the cyber security literature in works like _Engineering a Safer World: Systems Thinking Applied to Safety_ by N. Leveson. But unfortunately it is not as commonly explicitly recognized as it should be. Canada's ITSG-33 suffers from individualism too, to use the cyber security domain (my current profession) again. (Disclaimer on the first - I was a philosophy undergraduate who studied with Bunge in the 1990s.) I confirmed with one of the authors (and instructor of the training on it I attended) that this was on purpose - as a oversimplification of a problem they did not know how to solve. IMO it is solved by approaches D. F. often talks about - small steps, feedback, etc. but the governing bodies that write these things are stuck in the 1990s.
@piotrd.4850 4 күн бұрын
Like McKinsey is authority on the subject. Or any other, for that matter. I happen to work for company that does work for company consulted by McKinsey. The mess we have to contend with....
@monocledmanatee6355 3 күн бұрын
They're an authority on the subject of excuses for firing people, I guess. So instead of "I don't like your face!" a better excuse ("Blah-blah-blah productivity blah blah synergy blah blah derpity derp metrics!") could be used.
@camgere 4 күн бұрын
Now that you have knocked off measuring the productivity of software engineers, you can measure the productivity of university professors.
@askholia 4 күн бұрын
The article smells of lonely, mid-level management. McKinsey is vibe based, not quantifiable metrics.
@nalle475 4 күн бұрын
As someone who spend 50+ years in management I must say “fantastic video”. I strongly believe and recommend measuring things the way you describe it. As a business owner or partner I needed that information to lead my organization to better results using facts not horoscopes. The role of any manager is that of a personal trainer not a beancounter. The one point I disagree on is the value of Customer satisfaction.
@monocledmanatee6355 3 күн бұрын
Ah, but didn't he say that it IS a useful metric, but ONLY in context? And the customer's always wrong - we just won't ell it to them, as we used to say (meaning that our job was working with the customer to find out their actual needs and help them, not just catering to every whim), so instead of nebulous "satisfaction" something more narrow (and measurable!) should be used.
@nalle475 3 күн бұрын
Customer satisfaction is really important and easy to measure. Basically we need to agree on the best solution and then deliver 100% what and when we promised. What ever a customer feels is what he is communicating to his peers, so best to get it right if you want to be in the business for a long time.
@seNick7 4 күн бұрын
SOA was about a smart, master pipe and complex wiring of everything that connected dumb services. Microservices are about smart services and dumb pipes. So yeah, we did learn something. JavaScript was faded by TypeScript. Many dynamically typed languages have types now (e.g. PHP, Python). Functional languages are still niche, because they don't give you leverage they'd promised.
@MichaelAuerswald 4 күн бұрын
A little constructive criticism: having moving backgrounds throughout the video will negatively impact video size and quality since much if not most of the bitrate will be used to compress those moving frames rather than what's important. It's also somewhat distracting, tbh...
@benjaminsimon915 4 күн бұрын
I'm not the first one to mention this, but I'll phrase my thoughts nonetheless: This is just marketing on McKinsey's part. The industry is not in the best place right now. Companies are downsizing left and right. Managers are people, they don't like being responsible for someone losing their livelihood, so there is demand for "objective" and preferably simple tools to base their decisions upon. I mean it's not a new thing, but I imagine demand has sky-rocketed for these "measurement frameworks", so it makes sense that these BS ideas are jumping up more frequently. Consultancy firms are just eager to meet the demand.