Situation has improved many fold in the 3 yrs after our trip. No issues at all now, plenty of choice.

@@ewheelerfinland the UK could learn a lot from Finland regarding charge points.

I guess times moved on. It was a city car, which we actively used for travelling also. Didn’t suit the car very well, so we traded it in for an MG4 64kWh in August.

Would you recommend to buy Citigo?@@ewheelerfinland

Yes, in August we traded it to the MG4 64kWh Luxury

@@ewheelerfinland good choice:)

I have used Defa heaters down to -38 degrees C here in Finland without issues. There's several different power options for sale, you need a 2200W for larger cars. And in Finland, this heater cost me only €55 (about $60 US). If you choose too small heater, it will not be able to heat the whole car unless used for longer time. In very cold weather I use my heater 2 hrs before leaving and it has always been enough.

Defa heaters are all ceramic element heaters.

@@ewheelerfinland Really? Here the highest power available is 1200 watts. You are right if I can find a 2200 watts that would be nice. If you have link to that 2200 watts heater pls send it to me.

@@arshavinhd6649 www.defa.com/product/termini-2100/

@@arshavinhd6649 I have no idea, if any of the shops there sell all Defa products. But here in Finland, the 2100 (older models were 2200) is more than enough when using timer for 2 hrs before leaving. And that's with largers cars also. If it's not available from the Defa dealers in Canada, then other makes obviously need to be used if available.

I doubt it warms up faster. You're just making that up as it's clear by your lack of care about climate heating you lack any social responsibility and are an inadequate.

No it does not heat up faster in -20C

36,8kWh(32,3kWh usable). CCS is always standard in Finland. With all optional equipment, better Style trim and winter tyres on Skoda wheels, we payed roughly 20k€ in 2020. Here, the Citigo can't be bought anymore.

If you drive 80km per day highway, the range will be maybe 200-220 km. This, because in the morning the climate takes a bit of energy for 10-15 minutes, even at 10-15 degrees C. So maybe every 2 days during summer, every day during winter. At -20 or -25, we get about ~125 km max, before heating cuts out. Summer, in the city, easily 310 km + (we have seen almost 330km in the city).

Haven't had any paint problems in the 27 yrs of owning cars yet. The brush is made for this purpose.

It's not a sw issue on the e-UP/Mii/Citigo. They have a 2-phase charger, that can't combine the two phases like on e-Golf. Luckily, all of our type2 chargers are always 3-phase, as in majority of EU countries.

Well, no. It's a parking heater that uses external power.

Hi! First of all, happy that my videos bring joy 😊⚡. About the heating; I have actually covered this on a few videos also. The housing company has forbidden the use of the heating sockets for EV/PHEV charging. It can only be used 2h/day (behind a fixed, non-remowable timer) for pre-heating an ICE engine and a low power interior heater. In my case I can use the Defa heater on full power, because I have no heater for the "engine", like the ICE cars. But this is, believe it or not, monitored. And in the beginning they even accused me of charging the car. I had to explain, that the green Defa cable is only for a normal interior heater and the car can't charge through it. I literally had to answer a formal complaint, made by a envious neighbour. He thought I was charging and made a complaint. But yep, no charging what so ever at home for us.

If you live in a house or an apartment, where you have a private heating socket and it's behind a metered supply, no problem. We don't.

@@ewheelerfinland Ok, now I understand why you chose that sollution. Thanks 🙂

I think it still has by far the best value for money on any new EV. Still our only car and we love it! ⚡⚡⚡

@@ewheelerfinland What i miss most compared to the ID.3 is the ACC and the middle armrest. But indeed a very good car for the money.

@@automatix5 You do give up a lot but when considering that you get two of these for the price of the cheapest iD3 here in Finland, it's very easy to forgive all that is lacking. Even we would get an iD3, Kona, or similar, if we could. But we just can't afford to.

This triplets (Skoda/vw/Seat) are superb little EV's. Low consumption, a good heater, fast heating seats, deacent battery size for a small car = good range even in winther (tested in Norway in -20 deg, 220 km to full stop), comfortable, low noise and a well functional app.

​@@automatix5You can buy a after market arm for the middle just clips on.

There's a socket set for this purpose, check this link. You can get similar ones from many manufacturers, but these can't be found in all countries. You can Google "Defa" or "Calix" to check if they offer in your country. m.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/4012548/Defa-Mini-johtosarja

You can order the connection set also on Amazon. But you need to check, if they deliver to your country. www.amazon.de/dp/B00KSHVD5G/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_BBT040QEZV3YPSYNMF27

Actually have no idea. The last one I had installed was in 2003. Since then, I only had hose heating elements on my cars, because the newer cars didn't have freeze plugs etc. Those I installed myself, the cost of the element and installation kit was around €300. On electric cars, engine (motor) heaters aren't needed so...

You mean the cabin of your electric moped? Why not, it's powered from outside socket.

Depends on weather and temp, of course. On a chilly autumn morning an hr on half power is enough to clear windows, but at -20, with our poorly insulated Citigo, it takes 2 hrs on full power, easily. Snow on the car actually helps, because it insulates and thus the windows heat up more easily.

If the bracket is installed on even slightly contoured panel, doesn't really work. Also, with temp range inside the car changing between -35 and +20 during the heating process, I wouldn't trust the tape on such small surface area to hold a 1 kg+ heater, while it is heating. If it drops and causes a fire (it happens sometimes on cars that have a free standing floor heater), better it happens to someone else. This original method is Defa recommended and I recommend it also.

I have never seen or heard anyone, dealer, private or auto electric workshops, installing one using tape. Not here in Finland, at least.

It has more to do with safety and security than keeping the panels original.

@@ewheelerfinland The heater just weighs a couple of hundred grams (0.595 kg) to be exact and it also has built in overheat protection. Moreover, high quality double sided tape is a 10x better solution than any kind of drilling. Double sided tape is like glue and can keep spoilers and splitter from falling of cars in speeds of over 300+ km/h. Can't really argue against its strenght and it would keep this Defa bracket stuck with a heater on indefinitely.

@@JohnSRR-lw4bx For me, all this means, is that it's equally good. I have no problem with the holes. Haven't met anyone who does. If you're happy with the tape then fine. I wasn't referring to the heater itself overheating, they have caused things inside the cars to catch fire if too near to the exhaust of the heater. Device itself is very safe.

At first no, depending on country, there's a 1-3 yr free use. After that, it depends on your country what it costs. Here in Finland it's around €50/yr

@@ewheelerfinland sounds good. Thanks for good answer. I live in norway. I just bought a new 2021 citigo e iv. Thanks to you and all the videos, i have learned a lot about the car! Thanks again.

@@gustavsandvik4807 😊 Glad if my videos brought some joy. I would be interested to hear, what is the manufacturing week of your Citigo, since they actually stopped making it over 9 months ago. If you can check the VIN / type approval plate or ask the dealer, that would be great 👍

@@ewheelerfinland I will ask the dealer on saturday when we pick it up :) Here in Norway they are selling them out until its empty and they said 2021 model is the last year they will have them on the market. Hopefully parts and things for the car will be easy to get in many years forward. I will update you on manufacture week soon :)

I just prefer the dual power version. There's two different versions of that, and the more powerful one makes the car warm and melts all ice from windows at -25, so that's the one for me.

There's actually also a 2100 W version but that's overkill...

@@ewheelerfinland I've been looking at dual power versions due to the reason that there are different amperage rates on the heating poles here in Sweden. 6-16A poles. I believe 6A can handle ~1380W. Engine pre-heater should use 500-600W. Not sure if DEFA 1900W on lowest setting would blow the fuse? Melting the ice on the windows definitely sounds good though.

@@314Draken Yep, same here in Finland. The biggest version of the duals is 1350/2100. Perfect for large cars and station wagons, might still work on 6A poles on lower setting. The middle, which we have, is 1150/1900, very good compromise, can still heat a Skoda Octavia size sedan easily. The smallest is 830/1700. On the highest setting, an Octavia sized car doesn't get clear windows at -20 or colder, if you can't heat for longer than 2 hrs (I had an Octavia with this and tested. Changed to a bigger unit later). On a small car like ours, it would be just enough, but I like a warm car with all windows clear in the morning so the middle version is perfect.

😅 The 5 hrs sitting in rain is a bit extreme for me hehe

This very same trip in our previous petrol Citigo cost us about €32 so basically this was only ~12 euros cheaper. In the winter, it cost us about double the cost of travel in the petrol Citigo (€67-68). But more than 90% of all our driving is around our home city or within 50-60km from it, so our total costs per 100km is still only €2.38, over 11.000 km. At home we average about €0.5-0.9 / 100 km due to mostly free charging.

@@ewheelerfinland Yes bought a harbour card for shore power for boats from a vending machine in the middle of night and charged from a 16A blue connector.

I bought it from the Finnish Automobile Assosiation a few yrs ago. Just had a look and not available there anymore. But I did find the same meter with angled valve head, sold as "Grayston GE92". Looks exactly the same, I just have a straight head on mine. Sold in the UK by www.raceandrally.com online shop, price £12,50. You can search, maybe you can find a dealer near you also.

Incredible quality for the price. I have had mine calibrated twice and it's only off by 0,02-0,03 bar between 1,0-3,0 bar.

Kiitos vinkistä, olin kuullut tästä jo aiemminkin 👍

@@ewheelerfinland Jooh iteki ostin melkein Ctekin ensin kun hyviä kokemuksia heidän ylläpitolatureista. Toivottavasti saavat joskus julkaistua jonkun parannellun version...

😔

😊⚡ Congrats! 👍

I got one as a loaner today. This car is such a liar. It started with a range of 369km. After a 50km trip with 105kmh it it says it has 210km of range left

Indeed that would be nice, but, unfortunately, we don't have the choice of using even the 1-phase charging adapter at home. It's forbidden to use our parking heater sockets for anything else besides engine heating and only for 2 hrs. Any electric car charging is against the rental rules and I don't want to push my luck 🙂

@@ewheelerfinland OK, that explains your setup. FYI - in Norway housing associations can’t deny an occupant to install a home charger box. On the contrary, they can be forced to invest in the required infrastructure to make it more attractive for each.

@@arnesmebye2513 Yep, Norway is ahead in both EVs and laws regarding infrastructure. It looks like we will also have laws soon to make home charging available everywhere, but to be honest, that would just add to costs in our case. We're doing just fine without home charging and if we had to pay 20-30€/month to have home charging, we wouldn't get it.

😜 Not going to happen here. I will always drive it like normal car.

The point of the trip was just to test charging during long drive in winter, see true cost of driving in winter and see how fast It's possible to travel during winter. We didn't have any place to go 😂 . Yep, I forgot to show the price per 100 km on the video, but you're right. It's more than 11,6 euros and that meant It's almost double the cost of doing the same trip with our previous petrol Citigo.

@@ewheelerfinland yea, EV, at least these small triplets are not mean't for travel - it's slow and expensive :(

@@electricwhirl5175 As long as you don't have to do it dozens of times per year, especially during winter, the overall costs are still well below petrol cars. Our car has done more than 8000 km now and still the long term cost per 100km is below €2,70. That money doesn't buy much petrol or diesel...

@@electricwhirl5175 Same trip with a Porsche Taycan would have been under €5/100km. Tesla propably even cheaper. They charge soooo much quicker. Just so damn expensive cars...

@@ewheelerfinland Yeah but the problem here is the price based on minutes.

😔 Sorry to hear about your redundancy. If you live in an area, which gets below zero weather regularly during winter and you need to drive longer trips, just remember that the EV needs to have a proper battery heat management system. Not like our Citigo (or Mii/e-UP).

I really don't know. I need to ask CTEK, if they answer. But I don't think it's directly related to the voltage. It seems to be calculating the % based on how the voltage behaves and how long it's higher than nominal, etc. Which would explain why it's so far off all the time. Let's hope I get some kind of reply from CTEK. They are not very straight forward.

1. Yes, I know. The 12V is always charged when charging the HV battery. Even in AC charging. 2. Yes, I know. But there's no law against it and Hyundai, Kia, Tesla, among many, do charge the battery even when the car is standing unused and not plugged in. Apparently VW iD.3 also does it now.

3. No, I didn't. But I don't believe for one moment, that charging would be disabled. The programming might allow for a lower level of charge in eco/eco+ and thus the charging is not on as long as in comfort mode. 4. The CTEK - what to say... the device is a piece of shit, honestly. I mean, if it would show the voltage curve, it would be ok. But SOC in relation to variables unknown to the driver - ugh... And the device doesn't even come with proper instructions. Not even in the app.

@@ewheelerfinland 1. I meant when DC battery is charged (either DC / AC charging), but if you leave car for night (12h), but battery charge in 3hours, then 9 hours 12v battery won't be charged anyway. 2. yea, probably they can do it. Also remembered, that you can turn on pre-heating via app, so it will switch on contactors of DC battery and start charging of cabin. So yes, the car could sense low 12v battery and then switch contactors and make charging of battery, but that could cause DC battery drain on other side...

@@electricwhirl5175 I don't know if the car charges 12V battery if plugged in to AC or DC but not charging. I have never even tried doing that. But I don't have home charging so when I charge at a commercial charger, I do charge while it's there.

@@electricwhirl5175 Actually there's only a few EVs that don't have the 12V top-up function. Our Citigo is just one of them, unfortunately.

I guess you can always buy the parts online, say, from a German webshop, and just change the plug on the mains lead to a uk type. I would imagine it works just as well. But I have no idea how the brexit influenced buying from EU.

For instance, www.conrad-electronic.co.uk is a German webshop selling to UK. They have a 1400 W Defa Termini (product no 1017849) and the connection kit (product no 852923) for sale. It's with the Schuko system, so the mains lead plug has to be swapped for a UK plug. Not a difficult task but you can have someone do it for you always. The Schuko plug and socket inside the car doesn't need to be changed, only the mains lead plug.

Useful charging time depends, of course, on many variables. SOC of the 12V battery before charging. Temperature of the battery (a cold lead acid doesn't charge very well). But for instance, a low SOC battery, on a car that has been stored outside and outside temp is -5, I would say one hr doesn't really do much for the 12V. So basically the rule is the same as with ICE cars. If the battery is nearly empty, you should use a separate battery charger for an extended period, like over night. If this is not possible, then long drive (3-5 hrs) which isn't very economical, or leave the car on the AC even after it's full already (not very good for the drive batt, long term). I would use separate charger. But you should remember that only plug the charger into mains AFTER the car is locked and remove the plug BEFORE unlocking the car, as the car does charge the battery after you turn on the ignition. Otherwise might risk damaging the on-board charger. If you drive the car often and also charge it often, the 12V batt should be staying relatively full. Problems occur with cars that are used for short trips and then stay stationary for days. They are at risk.

The CTEK's SOC (%-value) is totally off. Even with a relatively full battery, it goes to as low as 20% or below. And still the battery is full. I haven't quite found any logic in the way it computes the %.

@@ewheelerfinland so if car is not charging when driving, then it is possible to run out of 12v power in middle of the trip eaven if soc of HV batt is lets say 50%?

And always be aware of the place to connect the charger in the car. Modern cars have battery monitoring on the battery pole (electronic monitoring module) and if you charge the battery on the wrong side of the module, the car might not charge the battery at all for a while. I hate these modern battery systems.

@@RomanRoman-xi3dv HV batt SOC doesn't affect the 12V charging at all, to my knowledge. But if you charge the 12V without the car knowing it (wrong side of the monitoring module), it might either over charge the 12V or stop charging for a while completely. I haven't asked from the dealer yet, how the Citigo 12V batt can be charged without damage or confusing the monitoring. Most cars don't see the energy put into the battery straight from the poles. So after charging they basically overcharge the batt. Some cars also monitor the voltage level and not just measure the in/outgoing energy. On those cars, charging the 12V with an external battery charger can be difficult and in some cases even pointless (has no long term affect on the SOC)

Belgium seems to be an expensive country to run evs, if you can't make it yourself (solar).

@@ewheelerfinland yea, for mine Mii ​ it's now average on 3083km is 6,47€/100km home and public charging, including some free charges at shopping, might be some 500km done on that.

@@electricwhirl5175 😑 oof....

Yes and no. The size of the battery is irrelevant. What matters is the heat control and preconditioning. For example Hyundai Ioniq has roughly same size battery as e-UP/Citigo iV/Mii e, but Ioniq is an excellent long trip ev. Has proper heat control and charges very fast.

About €7 / 100 km. So roughly triple.

@@ewheelerfinland mine Ibiza in Belgium is averaging 7,45L/100km or 9,81€/100km on 35k km.

That was my point on the video. No one can tell you that an electric car is cheap to run, if they don't know the cost levels of your particular country. There's a few countries in Europe, where driving an ev is more expensive than petrol or diesel car...

In the UK, those that have contracts with multi-service providers like Octopus, they can even be paid to charge their car at off-peak. We can only wish for that here...

No. I was not aware that in the Citigo it stays on. All other settings reset when the power is off. But because the preheat is only on for 3-5 minutes when unplugged, the air is the same temperature going into the heater at first. Only the last minute or so it probably makes a meaningful difference. But I might test that just to make sure.

Based on our simple test, you can't leave the circulation on in the Citigo e-iV.