Glad you enjoyed it

Many thanks for your lovely comment. We are glad you enjoyed it!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Couldn't agree more with the previous comment! I really enjoyed the visit and John's knowledgeable input to this. Glad I could see the photos of how it used to be on the KZbin video. Will definitely be revisiting in a year ot too to see the progress made.

Glad you enjoyed it

Many thanks for this comment and interesting questions. We passed them on to Phil to see if he could shed some light and he came back with some answers, which I shall outline below. He did however stress that all this information came from a slightly outdated source, ‘JL Hobbs Shrewsbury Street Names (1954)’. A far better bet might be ‘The Place-Names Of Shropshire Part Four: Shrewsbury Town And Suburbs And The Liberties Of Shrewsbury by Margaret Gelling in collaboration with W. Champion and the late H. D. G. Foxall’. Shropshire Archives will have a copy. 1) When and why did Knucking Street become Hill's Lane? Kockabitinestrete c.1268, Cocabitestret 1299, Knokynlone 1377, Knuckin Street 1657, Mr Hill's Lane 1700, but old name persisted; Nackin Street 1851. 2) When and how was it decided to rename Old Fish Street into Butcher's Row and St. Alkmund's Place? It wasn't; today's Fish Street was Old Fish Street in 1657 but confusion apparently came in when Butcher Row was inaccurately named Old Fish Street by John Speed in 1611 3) When and why was Stalls renamed Shoplatch? It wasn't; - Stalls was Mardol Head - Mardifoldeshedde date unknown, Hokurstalles 1391, Le Stalls 1428, Mardowell Head 1580, but back to Lee Stalls in 1725. In 1825 Street Act Commissioners decreed that it should be called Mardol Head. Shoplatch was Soteplace in 1219, Schetepache in 1295, Sheplache in 1377 and Shoplatch by 1647. 4) How did the Pride family wield enough power to have High Pavement renamed as Pride Hill? Unlikely that they did. Pride family owned a hall and shops in the street (bits still remaining of former within Boots Opticians and neighbours) probably as early as 13th Century, certainly by 1445. Apparently the name Pride Hill was little used until the 19th Century (normally called Single Butcher Row - to distinguish it from nearby Double Butcher Row, (now simply Butcher Row) - on one side and Corvisors' or Shoemakers' Row on the other) 5) When did the use of 'Wyle Cop' start to creep beyond the top of the hill to encompass the main stretch of hill that was formerly called The Wyle? Apparently there has not been any consistency in this until fairly recently. In 1825 The trustees of the Shrewsbury Street Act tried to insist on the division into The Wyle from bridge to Dogpole and Wyle Cop from Dogpole to St Julian's Church but without success. I hope that helps! Our thanks to Phil for his work on this.

@@shropshiremuseums6912 Brilliant, thanks to Phil for the excellent answers and to you for passing my questions on to him! My mistake about Shoplatch. I was misled by the name 'The Stalls' into imagining a natural progression to 'Shoplatch' via the same linguistic concept of shops or stalls, but it was a false friend. Mardol Head and Shoplatch being a continuation of each other in the same line, 26 years since I left Shrewsbury had given me enough time to forget which was which! Fascinating about Old Fish Street just being a map-maker's mistake. Also noticed in one of the maps in the video, I think, that it (Butcher's Row) was called Ox Street for a while! About The Wyle / Wyle Cop and their point of division, what the trustees of the Shrewsbury Street Act proposed in 1825 is in line with my source for my GCSE project back in 1989-90, and seems entirely logical when you consider that 'cop' actually means 'top' and the hill itself is not its top. There was a similar story with the overuse of the name Barker Street when I lived in Shrewsbury, as I recall - properly it was just the middle section of the stretch from Bellstone to Bridge Street, but the name was overused, and one of the corrections I tried to make in the article I had published in the Shrewsbury Chronicle early in 1990 was to the sign on the multi-storey car park whose entrance was actually in St. Austin's Street - the sign on the side at that time called it the Barker Street car park, and I pointed out the error in my article. I think someone in planning must have been paying attention to the Chronicle, because within a few years, the sign had been replaced by one reading St. Austin's Street. Of course, it's since been demolished, but it wouldn't surprise me if photographs survive of when the multi-storey was still standing and was incorrectly labelled Barker Street.

Phil says: No problem, glad to help. Just to clarify a couple of issues; It's worth quoting Hobbs in full on Fish Street; "On Speed's map, Butcher Row is called Old Fish Street; but Rocque more accurately places this at the north end of St Alkmund's Church, with new Fish Street (the present Fish Street) at the opposite end of the church. Old Fish Street led from Butcher Row to the top of St Julian's steps and later became Berrington's Square, from Berrington's mansion in Dogpole, and is now St. Alkmund's Square." It's worth noting that New Fish Street (ref date 1649) and Old Fish Street (ref date 1657) were both used to describe today's Fish Street around the same time. Probably this confusion reigned a few years earlier when Speed did his map in 1610. Clearly confusion reigned in the 17th century! There is no evidence that Butcher Row was ever called Ox Street, despite it being extremely logical that it might have been, given the vast numbers of oxen that would have met their end there. Hobbs lists these names for the street; Le fflesshomeles 1282, Bocheria 1354, La Bocherewe 1383, Flessheweresrewe 1396, The Fleshe boordes 1580, Butchers' Row 1653, Double Row 1786. However, in 1711 St. Mary's Street was recorded as Ox Lane. This also appears on Rocque's map later in the century and up until 1825. In that year the busybody Trustees of the Shrewsbury Street Act decreed that henceforth Ox Lane "and that part of Dogpole as far as Mrs. Skymsher's house should be known as St Mary's Street". In fairness to the trustees, it should be noted that the street was recorded as St Mary's Street in 1586, so this was the return of an old name - and they didn't sanitise the use of Grope Lane as 19th century prudes did in other towns... Again, I would suggest checking all this against what Margaret Gelling has to say.

Phil also wanted to add this additional observation: Modern-day Barker Street does of course refer these days only to the section of road between Bellstone and the junction of St Austin's Street and Bridge Street. Barker Street is first referred to as such by no earlier than 1530. Before that it was part of Romaldesham (slight variations in spelling over the years) which stretched from Shoplatch to the Austin Friary (near swimming baths) and included today's Bellstone, Barker Street, St Austin's Street and St Austin's Friars (but not Bridge Street, formerly Cripplelode).

Thanks!

Many thanks!

My Grandad ( Albert Edwards ) was Bills first cousin !

Many thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks!

Thanks

Glad you enjoyed it!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Glad you enjoyed it

Hah hah - there are 2 ways of pronouncing the fair town. It's a matter of opinion which is better.......

@@michaelfisher6354 It's actually determined if you are on the English Bridge side or the Welsh Bridge side as to how it's pronounced. I learned that at school - I'm an ex Wakemanite

@@hoodunnit3884 same here….although I had developed a mid Atlantic accent as I lived in Canada before coming to the Wakeman.

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!