Homer 'writes' in the Iliad that after Patroclus' funeral Achilles is lying in bed struggling to sleep. He is longing for Patroclus. The Greek word translated as longing is ambiguous, but it can mean sexual longing.

They weren't gay.

Although it was a good read, the only problem with the book is summed up by your compliment: It’s a very modern gay love story. Life in Classical Greece was nowhere close to our world and values, and that unfortunately does not come across to us in the book. Thanks for the interview, it was fun to listen to.

There is no solid evidence that he was gay with his friend, but it’s all speculation. However, there is solid evidence that he had a childhood friend who was with him in battle, etc. thus, he known him his whole life, so he gave him an elaborate funeral, was sad for his friend dying. There is solid evidence that he in fact was with several women. He was married to women more than once, in fact 3 times and even became a dad, got one of them pregnant. According to Arrian, Alexander married Hephaestion to his wife's sister Drypetis.

Alexander the great was guy. Stop the agenda

Thank you for this video

No. But he might've let a potential lover think that to ease the sting of rejection.

You may very well be an expert regarding Alexander's Sexuality, but Please don't even attempt to describe the size of Alexander's empire or his ability as a military commander!! My father had a graduate degree in ancient history and Persian literature, and later went back to College to study law. Moreover in 9th grade, at my City-Sized high school that "produced" an average of 3 Nobel Prize winners per year, I was extremely fortunate to have as my ancient history instructor, the leading historian who wrote the "Nationaly unified" Textbooks for all high schools in the nation, plus 1 College Text for history majors!! And 2/3 of my class was centered around, Cyrus The Great, and Alexander!! And it would be a waste of time to try to engage with you, regarding the Size of Persian Empire at the time of Cyrus The Great, as compared to the largest land under Greeks rule!! But you're clearly at a disadvantage, as the study of the Persian Empire (with my own ancestors being Cossacks of Azarbaijan of IRAN)!! Have you ever wondered why the book "The Arts Of Leadership and War" about Cyrus The Great, is Required Reading from West Point Military Academy to a Royal Military Academy of the U. K.??!! Moreover I've been making money selling my articles, since 1983.(I'm sure before you were born)!! Yet I'm Certain that you'd win the prize for the answer to whether or not Alexander was gay😊 I assure that he was a Very Confused man, as he married to the beautiful woman, Roxanna (not the Princess), and yet one night while him and his male lover were out their minds, Drunk, and high on Opium, his boyfriend being terribly Jealous of Cyrus' amazing Persian Architecture, asked Alexander to Ordered The Destruction of the Magnificent Persopolis (Takht-eh-Jamshid), near Shiraz!! Now based on that (Not his Sexuality), every Credible Psychiatrist would consider him a Complete Nutcase 😊

I love this! It brought up a lot more things that I didn’t know Shakespeare wrote about, which is great cause I grew up in a Christian school where they tried to deny that when Shakespeare wrote about men, it was romantic but instead more of a friendly poem and that always cracked me up because I knew straight men don’t write about their friends like that. Very interesting!

The Song of Achilles is such an interesting book that I've ever read, I remember that I spent just only 2 days reading all of it with all my feelings

14:30 apparently she has never been to a classics dept or a conference My opinion is that Achilles is gay and if you disagree it’s because of patriarchy and “society” or you’re just homophobic …. Classic.

wdym, was he gay?? HE SCREWED HIS BOYFRIEND MULTIPLE TIMES-

If Achilles and Patroclus were gay lovers, Achilles and probably Patroclus must have been bisexual. In one scene in Book 9 of the Iliad the two of them are portrayed as sharing a tent, but not as sleeping beside each other; each of them has a slave girl sleeping beside them as a concubine. Achilles is very upset when a beautiful young slave woman he has captured in the War is taken from him by the Greek commander Agamemnon. Also in Book 9, when Agamemnon desperately needs Achilles' help and is trying to patch up the quarrel between them by offering Achilles the most fantastic rewards, the list includes Briseis, Agamemnon's daughter in marriage, gold and '20 captured women of your choice when we conquer Troy, the most beautiful you can find.' Agamemnon thus perceives Achilles as primarily desiring beautiful women, or else he would presumably have offered Achilles handsome captured men instead. So if they are lovers, Patroclus apparently does not mind Achilles screwing young women as well. I do not know what significance to attach to the fact that after Patroclus is killed in battle, Achilles sacrifices 12 young Trojan princes (yes, human sacrifice) on his funeral pyre.

We do not choose whom we love. It exist without us knowing why or understanding where it came from. I think the mutual love between Alexander and Hephaestion was amazing!

For the love of the Olympians you people. Why are you so obsessed on making them gay. When they are not described being so in the Iliad. Even Plato doesn't say anything about sexual interaction between them. How Achilles reacted after Patroclus death doesn't mean anything. That's why it's called a Epic. IF you want to be gay good for you. If you want to personally believe they were gay good for you it's your imagination it's your right. But Stop trying to find stories trying to push it towards your personal political agenda. Have some dignity for yourself and respect for Hellenic culture. By doing what you are doing is just showing how desperate you are to be recognised. Embarrassing the gay community.

dear God, NOBODY FUCKING CARES IF HES GAY!!!!!!!!!!

a woman not understanding the bond of brothers. Got it

No he's not gay ffs. Trust me, a gay dude cannot be the greatest warrior of them all. Still, great story.

Fantastic interview. Thank you

In which countries and cultures do heterosexual men hold hands when walking together?

A great book, really

He gay

The classic biography Alexander the Great and His Time by Agnes Savill says there was no evidence of Alexander being homosexual. He had wives and bore children with them. There are no contemporary sources that prove he was homosexual. Only later slanders written long after his death. When Philoxenes offered him two young boys, Alexander said, “What evil has he seen in me that he should purchase such evil creatures? Tell the dealer to take his wares to hell.” pp. 210-211. That doesn’t like someone interested in males to me. Many of the pieces of evidence offered here are circumstantial. It is very difficult to prove homosexuality in the ancient world. Most of these relationships were kept private. Close friendship among males does not necessarily mean a sexual relationship. The fact that Alexander rejected a prostitute offered by his parents proves nothing. He may have just been to embarrassed, not ready, or simply didn’t like her.

Please comeback, I really enjoyed your work it's quite interesting.

Alexander despised the gays and even murdered them. Homosexuality in Ancient Greece was banned by law and they would kill them. Lies propagated on purpose in order to give a fake historic depth of homosexuality so we accept it today. It’s all purposeful and evil. Keep the holy Greeks out of your filthy barbaric mouths. Decadent abnormals

They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality

In the Illiad he fights Agamemnon for a woman. Homosexuality is never mentioneed. It is in a comedy entitled "The Mirmidons" which was staged 800 years after the Trojan war that such nonsense is mentioned. So, use all the facts before you make conclutions.

We still loved him not romantic leee but u understand

Yes he was

Note the part where it's fiction As much as we want something to be a part of us we do have to accept the facts that history is cruel and sometimes we read into things with the modern thought of what being gay is

Plato was convinced that Achilles was the bottom, and honestly, I get it

Why are people obsessed with being gay or trans hear days.. gets tiresome to be force fed

I’ve never cried at a book as much as this one. I finished, and I’m in mourning, seriously. She’s such a brilliant author. Such a beautiful, beautiful story.

There's nothing more disgusting than a blushing f a g all giddy thinking about corn holing

So after 3000 years of debate, she's the one who figured it all out?

The ending for some reason made me more sad when it should of made me happy…

Hmm, Andrew a lot of the evidence on the two being lovers is of a secondary, deriviative and hearsay nature. What is actually written in the primary sources indicates a deep friendship and codependency but there is no talk of it being sexual. Please correct me if I am wrong

I just finished the book and am sorry to say I hated it. I kept paying attention to what page I was on to know how much more I had to read before I was done. I’m a 65 year old gay man, for me it harkened back to the early days of gay stories where they always end in tragedy. The price to pay for gay love is a tragic ending. From The Front Runner in the late 1970s to Broke Back Mountain in the early 2000s it was the statement being made. Be gay and end tragic. I was never so glad to put this book behind me and forget it.

There is no such thing as "LGBT". Alexander was either a homosexual (gay) or he was not, and if he were that does not land him in some random grouping that includes transvestites or people who want the world to pretend they're another sex than they actually are. #LGBwithouttheT

I love so much this book! The Song of Achilles is my favorite love story! Congratulations for this video!

Of all the crazy shit he has done in his life, this is what people keep wondering about. The way you guys say Hephaestion and Patroclus :(

The "who was top and who was bottom" war is also fueled by how Homer actually explicitly states that Patroclus is older than Achilles. Then again that could just mean he's more mature. But also there's the part where Achilles disguised and passed for a girl and NOBODY figured it out. Odysseus had to pull a trick to get Achilles to reveal himself. With that knowledge of Achilles perfectly disguised as a girl, in regards to his relationship with Patroclus, use your imagination. But also the cousins bit also comes from the fact that Patroclus' grandmother Aegina is Achilles' great-grandmother, so they'd be first cousins once removed? Not that anything like that has stopped lovers from coming together in those days. It's Ancient Greece, people can't keep it in their chitons to save their lives. Just ask the gods lol

In the movie " Troy." Achilles is a Mack Daddy..he's kicking it with two women at a time...the thought of him being gay breaks my heart....

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Nothing great about sin

In "Le Banquet" from Platon where Agathon and Socrate are debating about Love and Eros, there are plenty example of lovers and heroes. Achilles and Patroclus are a part of them, depicted as true lovers.

Guys I'm Greek... I don't know what translation anyone here has read, But in Homers Iliad they are not depicted as lovers cause they were not. Read Patroclus backstory in fact read every characters backstory: *SPOILER* After Patroclus had accidentally killed a commoners son in a game of dice, Patroclus dad (Menoetius) goes to Phthia were King Peleus (Achilles dad) reigned. Explains the situation and asks Peleus to take his son in his care. (Peleus and Menoetius were both Argonauts... So old friends) Achilles and Patroclus grow up together. Patroclus may have been older but the age gap wasn't so great they would be considered to practice pederasty + pederasty wasn't a thing in Homers timeline. Homosexuality was a taboo in ancient Greece as well not so much for the "Top" but more for the "Bottom" if they enjoyed it they were being ridiculed, frowned upon and seen as feminine... Again every philosopher had translated Homers Iliad according to their timeline. Even Pederasty which was a common practice specially in Athens around Plato's, Phaedrus,Alcibiades and Xenophon timeline. Wasn't always accepted in Ancient Greece. Socrates's (Plato's teacher) believed that these two were just really good friends that grew up together. He was clearly against the idea of them being lovers. Socrates's did live long enough to see the practice of pederasty be accepted but clearly in his prime that wasn't the case. So we are not talking about Achilles reaction being a friend losing a friend, but more of losing a brother. So let's norrow it: Homer: Never said anything about it them being lovers, instead he left it to the audience. Socrates: Clearly against the idea of them being lovers Aeschylus: Supports it and places Achilles the role of "erastes" and Patroclus as "eromenos" Plato: Doesn't like Aeschylus role arrangement and reverses them Xenophon Against the idea of them being lovers Aeschines Remains Neutral and goes by Homers words So as you can see everyone has their own take on the story according to their timeline and personal beliefs... Even today! Hollywood depicts them as really close relatives, other sources as lovers, and others as really good friends. The way Homer told the Iliad and it's characters back story's I believe they were like brothers.

So interesting . I'm glad I found this channel . I'm just catching up with all the earlier videos

The hero we deserve, the representation we need. (And what an all-star cast!) I've never wanted to throw money at a Vtuber so much in my life. Let me just get my wallet.....

So, I LOVE. LOVE. LOVEEEEEEE this book it is one of my favorites! But heres my (personal) problem. Homers Iliad was written in 900 BC. there are 15,600 lines in it. and 764 of those lines are in doubt.. so 4.9% is in doubt. So what if we are interpreting it wrong? People do this with the Bible all the time, and other books, arguing its old and people interpret things wrong. in no way am I bashing this, I love this book, but the only problem is we may have not understood some lines and messed up words... I don't know I have a lot of trust issues lol (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm taking this from class notes!)