Racial or queer oppression? They are also walking nuclear bombs just like mages?

@@JustAnotherEvangelionFan no but we are also considered threats to society based on fearmongering and are therefore deprived of the same rights that "normal" people cherish.

It really wasn't, if Anders wanted the mages to be free he should of orchestrated an escape from the gallows, not kill a bunch of innocent priests and orphans

​@@shamrock141: and being Hunt like animals ?

Yeah I hate that the series completely lost the plot on this. Origins established quite definitively that giving mages unsupervised reign results in things like the Tevinter Imperium, The Darkspawn Plague, and catastrophic demon outbreaks. It was a really interesting exploration of how the existence of magic users would realistically affect life and society in a fantasy setting. But as the series went on they just became a generic "oppressed minority" allegory.

Fascist talking points. Are you a KKK member? Why don't you follow your Fuhrer to hell and rid the world of your existence?

with that logic should all gun owners be executed because guns are too dangerous? Meredith isn't being a "jerk" she's trying to indiscriminately kill people on a perceived level of danger while ignoring all the mages who are in no way a threat to anyone. like she's just going to ignore all the mages that use healing magic to help people?

It only takes a few to spoil a harvest. A few innocents don't absolve the danger the whole group poses.

Anders was wrong, corrupted by vengeance. His attack only further criminalised mages everywhere. If he wanted them to be free he should of lead an escape attempt from the gallows, or sought to destroy their phylacteries, instead he assassinated a bunch of innocent priests and orphans so that nobody could stop the bloodshed to come

Agreeing on principle doesn't mean you have to agree with method. Anders' murder of everyone in the Chantry is abhorrent, the grand cleric was the only one keeping peace in Kirkwall, he then sparked a war that killed countless more. Of all the ways to rebel, this was surely one of the worst

⁠​⁠@@shamrock141 elthina happily stood by while meredith killed mages, made them tranquil, let her templars rape them, and sent literal death squads after people who helped their mage family members. it was her job to keep the templars in check and she didn’t, she did absolutely no peace-keeping also the war actually started bc of the stuff do with the cure to tranquility and mages declaring independence from the chantry, not what happened in kirkwall

@@shamrock141 No, it is not, he killed evil people.

@@disarraygay when did she happily stand by? She openly opposed Meredith's outrage in the opening scene of Act 3 and was denying the requests of radicals to use the tranquil solution. She never abandoned the Chantry even when she was offered safe passage and didn't let the machinations of her subordinate go unpunished At the end of the day though she can't control Meredith, it's well known that Kirkwall was under Templar dominion, that's why Anders assassinated her, he himself said he was removing the last chance of compromise, Elthina was that last chance of peace that kept Meredith from using the right of annulment And yes the war started because of Anders, he was the last straw and managed to completely screw everyone by condemning the mages to death so that they would be forced to join his revolution

@@durshurrikun150 killing a bunch of priests and orphaned children, yeah real evil...

Although it's stated several times that a lot of these people became such because of the abuse they suffered at the hands of the Templars and felt like they had no choice. After all, if your very existence is criminal, why not go all the way?

There's also the mitigating factor that Kirkwall is an Eldritch location. It was the center of the Slave Trade (Kirkwall is called the White City of Chains for a reason) when the Tevinter Imperium controlled all of Thedas. A great many blood sacrifices were performed using said slaves during that time so The Veil is particularly weak and those sensitive to that sort of thing (i.e. mages, templars on Red Lyrium) are more prone to following their darker impulses due to demonic influence.

And most of those turned to blood magic because of what meredith was doing

And that's because the system caused that. But of course you are victim blaming the victims of Apartheid.

OH MY GOD. I was beating my head against a wall trying to identify her voice. Meridia!

Agreed

The flaw here is thinking of them as completely separate beings. If you played Dragon Age Origins - Awakening, you'd know that neither Anders nor Justice would have thought of doing this on their own. Anders' anger over mage treatment and Justice's need to fulfill his purpose drove them to that extreme. In hindsight, this was the inevitable outcome.

@@MandalorianRevan it's probably like a guy complains about injustice of over taxation, 99% of people won't do shit for various reasons unless possessed by a spirit whom mode is to fulfill justice

dont use justice as an excuse for Anders，justice is justice.And Anders，he choose to kill all those innocents by his own free will，or he is just an abomination who played harmless.

​@@sun-ys2sw Abomination, definitely. You ever hear the term "Justice is blind?" This is why. As soon as he and Anders became one, Justice became corrupted, as it could only see one side, not the other.

@@sun-ys2sw There were no innocent people in the chantry.

If you actually read the lore. You’d know that’s not true. The conditions in the circles vary from circle to circle. Kirkwall is the worst because the city has a lot of problems with blood magic. In fact, it’s all but confirmed that the city was the birthplace of blood magic, and has a corrupting influence on mages. In other circles, mages can be given to leave the circle for military service, experimentation, or to provide assistance to nobles and government officials. There are even some mages can be granted special permission to live outside the circle, Vivienne being the prime example of this. Under ideal circumstances, the First Enchanter and Knight-Commander are supposed to work together to make sure mages needs are addressed, while still maintaining the security of the circle. The problem is that human beings love finding ways to screw up what should be perfect systems.

@@addisonwelsh Except they did the same shit in Ferelden. They called for the Right of Annulment because a FEW of the Mages went crazy. And why did they go crazy? Because of all the oppression.

@@VDA19 Not only did you fail to disprove my argument, you invalidated your own. Nothing you've said refutes any of my points: that conditions vary from circle to circle, that mages are allowed to leave certain circles for different reasons, or that they can be allowed to live outside the circles. Secondly, the fact that the incident at the Ferelden circle was the result of a small group of mages proves that the majority of mages living there were at least content with their lives. It is also worth mentioning that Uldred, the leader of the blood mages in the Ferelden circle, was very unpopular for his beliefs. He only had his position because he had an uncanny ability to find blood mages, all of whom he reported to the Templars. Of course it's easy to find blood mages when you're the one training them. He's hardly a man worthy admiration. And finally, Knight-Commander Greagoir only invoked the Right of Annulment because, as far as he was aware, every mage in the circle was either dead, or turned into an abomination. Which is the exact reason the Right was created: an abomination got loose in a circle, went on a killing spree, turned a bunch of other mages into abomination, and in the end the Templars had to kill everyone. Not every abomination is a mustache twirling villain who makes their existence painfully obvious. Many of them are smart enough to hide what they are and lay low, building up a cult of their own that they use to start chaos. Maybe if mages don't want to be oppressed, they should stop doing the exact thing that caused everyone to hate and fear them in the first place?

@@addisonwelsh The fact that someone needs to 'allow' them to leave, or that someone can decide to execute them all, to make them Tranquil, shows that they're basically being treated as slaves. It's WRONG. Choosing the Templars puts you on the wrong side of history.

@@VDA19 Yeah, it’s not like mages conquered the continent and built an empire that revolves around slavery, blood sacrifice, and summoning demons. Oh wait, they did. It’s called the Tevinter Imperium, and it’s still around. The Mage-Templar situation is not comparable to the Holocaust. The mages are not innocent victims who did nothing wrong. They’ve got plenty of atrocities under their belt as well. Not to mention the fact that they’re inherently dangerous. A single abomination can cause unimaginable damage. Look at what Connor did to Redcliff, look at what Uldred did to his fellow mages at the Circle. But to address the point you made: The person who gives mages permission to leave the Circle is the First Enchanter. He has final say on if anyone can leave, and can overrule the Knignt-Commander. The Right of Annulment is a measure of last resort, meant to be invoked only in the most dire of circumstances, like when a circle has been overrun with demons and abominations, or after the Chantry has just been blown up. It also requires the official sanction from a Grand Cleric. Knight-Commanders can’t just invoke it on a whim. The Right of Tranquility is primarily used on Mages who cannot control their powers, or are unable to resist demonic possession. People who are a danger to themselves and others. There are some mages who even request to be made Tranquil, out of a fear of their own abilities, or of the demons who haunt their dream.

It was only a matter of time, given Meredith's deterioration, before she was going to call for the Right of Annulment and Kirkwall would have ended up like Dairsmund and the Chantry would have covered it up. Again. Anders' made sure the Chantry couldn't interfere and forced a confrontation with the Templars. It truly was the best solution.

@@MandalorianRevan Yes, proving mages are the dangerous monsters everyone thinks they are and justifying their harsh treatment was definitely the best option.

@@addisonwelsh How they are the monsters because last I check the Templars are the ones who are trying to kill every last mage even the children in the circle because of the action of one mage. Oh didn't the ”righteous” Templars abuse their authority over the circle and let not forget the circle was only made not to ”help”, but to capture/imprison mages. So yes that is going to happen if you treat a group of people like crap for thousands of years just because they born like that.

@@cswizzle1890 I was talking about how Ander's actions made them look. Do you think the people who saw the Chantry blow up were thinking "oh, those poor oppressed mages" No, they were thinking "Oh Maker, Mages really are as bad as everyone says." And the fact that every damned mage in Kirkwall suddenly broke out blood magic and began summoning demons and becoming abominations didn't help. Also, the fact that the Kirkwall chantry had so many blood mages is rather damning. Blood magic isn't something you just do, you have to be taught how to do it, either by another mage or a demon. Oh, and let's not forget the part where Orsino was hiding blood mages from Meredith rather than turning them over like he was supposed to. The Kirkwall Mages are not innocent victims, plenty of them were doing stuff they weren't supposed to. Ander's blowing up the Chantry was, in Meredith's eyes, the final straw, and after seeing a church blow up, there's few who would disagree with her.

@@addisonwelsh thank you for expressing the exact problem with the citizens and Templars of the setting. Yes actually. Blood Magic is something someone can just do. In fact it’s very easy. Also you looked up the "Enigma of Kirkwall" you’d know that there is something unnatural and wrong with the city itself. The destruction of the Chantry wasn’t the final straw for her. It was the perfect excuse. She _wanted_ an excuse. Don’t believe me? Ask the writers/developers of the game.

Just because he was justified, doesn't mean this wasn't a monstrous action. It just so happens this atrocity prevented worse ones. Caused a couple of others, true, but this was still ultimately a good thing.

@@MandalorianRevan that's my point. He killed innocent people, sure, but at the end of the day nobody gave a damm about mages. Desperate situations call for desperate measures

@@muchahonra2b the grand cleric was the only one keeping peace in Kirkwall. How many innocents died because of Anders, he killed the greatest leader in the city and allowed for a bloody revolution that killed who knows many citizens

@@muchahonra2b I think something that others don’t notice is that Anders is 100% aware that he knows what he did was unforgivable. He’s a devoted Andrastien (think I spelled it right), and he believes in Justice. He had a complete breakdown when he (potentially) killed an innocent girl in Act 2. He wanted to be punished for his actions, because he knows that what he did was wrong. But he _had_ to do it. Because nobody else will.