Looove this question/idea. A couple of thoughts come to mind: (I realize I'm thinking both of FOSTER here and SO LATE...) One is what I think of as the Bambi phenomenon: the idea that no real adventure/crisis/imperilment can ensue when there is a mother to keep things safe. SO much of literature has an absent mother at the start/core of the story. And in many ways CK/Ireland take this concept even further because often the mother is present, but is so stressed/used up/beleaguered/consumed etc. that she really can't function all that well. It's interesting to note that Irish independence (1918ish??) seems great but it really set women's rights way back at a time when many other countries were seeing advancements for women. Lack of birth control, voting rights--not to mention the expectations/realities for Catholic mothers--might mean that a mother, like the one in Foster, just can't cope. In So Late, you have the mother in the story, who is fiercely protective and pragmatic and worried about the ramifications of what her husband is up to. So there is a strong mother figure within the family. BUT, there are the legions of girls in the convent who are the kinds of literary characters (orphans) who might have had Dickensian types of adventures, but in CK's hands, their plight is not glamorized or romanticized and instead we sort of see them at the end-point of life without a mother. Your comment is so astute. I think the lack of the mother is a little hard to see because of how there is a strong mother in the family (who we are ambivalent about! Which is so significant!). But the story is wider than that. (In FOSTER we have the version of the mother who can't cope, and the idealized mother figure. It's crucial, and so moving and sad, that the idealized version can't play out. Heartbreaking in some ways to think of that overwhelmed mother at home after the summer. AND heartbreaking to see the idealized mother who has had children robbed from her TWICE! This is probably the reason why I can't bring myself to watch the movie of SO LATE. Too sad.) Thank you so much for writing! Love, Kimberly

@@thefoxedpage I’m writing a screenplay with this logline: Forced to choose between chasing her country music dreams and caring for her precocious son, a struggling singer-songwriter trusts her newly sober ex and risks losing custody when she goes on the road. You can see how much Claire’s gorgeous writing informs the story I’m trying to tell. I love the idea of not glamorizing the plight. I’m really going to lean into it.

Oh I think you are talking about the film The Quiet Girl. It is just as amazing as the book Foster, in its own way.

Mppp

Thank you so much for this! Super informative. My knowledge of the author bio is always pretty limited so any and all information is great. I mean, knowing she was jewish is pretty foundational in many ways. What a genius. I also think a lot about her very important role at the Courtald. Amazing. This comment puts me in the mood to go back to her now haha!

And omg a movie version!!

You're so nice to write! It was really fun to pull this together!

I'm so glad you liked it! Thank you for writing! He's such a genius.

It's so good! A very important work.

I'm so glad you liked it! La siguiente vez--en español!

Mil gracias!

I'm so glad you found me too! Isn't Marc Maron the best?? And listen, I love all my books but I also really love tv. The platinum age of television! I also listen to a lot of books now. That's a great way to read. Thank you for tuning in!

The trailer is for the foxed page KZbin lecture on the book. You can find that on the KZbin channel. Sadly, there is no movie!

It seems very obvious to me that the term gypsy is derogatory and unacceptable. Did I not acknowledge that in the lecture?? If I didn't, that's a real lapse and I apologize. It's clearly racist. I could use more information about the origins of the term and the history and the reality of the Roma people today, but I definitely don't use the term gypsy and certainly acknowledge it as derogatory and wrong. I'm interested if the term gitano carries all the same weight in Spanish as gypsy in English. It certainly seems like it would have the same negative impact--if not more so--but I'm always so curious about the nuance and the subtle differences that these inflammatory terms carry in various languages.

@@thefoxedpage you did not at all…u passed over it and that is unacceptable

Una de las mas grandes, ese tipo, Garcia Marquez.

Thank you for tuning in!

I'm so glad!! It's so funny the way we think about difficult books. So often they're far more accessible than we think. Woolf made such a huge impression on me when I was 17--so how hard can she be?? Haha. JK. But also for real! I think we get bogged down in the pressure to completely comprehend these works and we miss the chance to just revel in them. People like Faulkner or Joyce (less so Joyce, just because the later work feels so hermetic and kind of aggressively difficult, like a very very hard crossword puzzle). Woolf is magical. I'm so glad you dug in!

Right?? He's sooooo smart. And weird. Love it.

This is so kind!! And you have very good taste in books! I hope you loved Milkman. That was a book that was even better the second time through. Same with Berlin, actually! I went back to read one story in the collection for some reason and ended up reading the whole thing again. She's unreal. Thank you so much for writing!

@thefoxedpage booktube needs more of people like yourself! I love love love longer book reviews and deep dives. I cannot get enough, but unfortunately, there aren't enough reviewers like yourself.

Thank you for coming all the way to the KZbin to comment! I'm so interested in what goes out of print and why. It's such an interesting idea--that books can retain attention and continue to resonate over such long swaths of time. I have to say, too, that I do love looking back at things that are dated. It's so interesting to see what I loved about them. I also choose to believe--when I come across something that seems super backward in some ways, and really kind of morally WRONG, haha--that we have really come a long way in our thinking about some things. It's like looking at the handbooks for women in the 1950s about how to please your husband. The magic lies in how preposterous it seems AND all the ways in which it made a strange kind of sense then and how it still seems to indicate important aspects of human nature. I didn't read the Cherry Ames Nurse books but I have to say I like that title/name a lot better than the Nancy Drew! Thank you for listening!

This is like the nicest KZbin comment I've ever read haha. You're so kind to check that your "like" was registered. I cannot figure out how all of these modes of feedback work. An actually ridiculous number of people have said that they left ratings and reviews at Apple Podcasts and those things were never recorded/tabulated. It's all very strange. But I LOVE the idea that there are actually more "likes" out there than I'm seeing. Thank you SO MUCH for writing!

I went on an absolute Spark TEAR for a while there years ago. I read all the fiction and a bunch of the nonfiction and was obsessed with her biography. I must admit that my bad memory means that I don't remember the novels individually. I also remember thinking they were kind of uneven. But when someone is THIS GOOD, I end up loving even the mediocre works because they somehow feel like a part of the other works. If that makes sense haha. Did you like it?? I think it was kind of creepy?? Thank you so much for writing!

@thefoxedpage yes, there is an absolute sense of unease, nostalgia, and an undeniable Autumn vibe. I think it was/is a fantastic piece of literature. I can't wait to wrap up my 2nd read.

Wow do I wish I had the kind of memory that would allow me to remember this. I really don't know. Without ANY idea of the context, I'm thinking of the Velveteen Rabbit, the story about how true love allows one to be alive?? The syntax makes me think of "you take the cake," which would mean high praise but is often deployed ironically?? But this is just 100% me riffin on the one phrase out of context. Also, honestly, I love this kind of thorough reading. And often there are really good crowd-sourced answers to this kind of thing. If you're still interested, maybe try reddit?? Sorry to not be more helpful! And thank you for tuning in!

Thank YOU for listening! And writing!

I'm so glad you liked it! Did you see it was just shortlisted for the Booker Prize?? SO well deserved.

I'm so glad! I think you can tell how much I love it. I'm neck deep in 100 Years of Solitude at the moment and am so happy being entirely absorbed.

I'm so glad! I love that book. Obviously haha

Interesting. This sounds like you mean Rachel Cusk herself? I really know northing about her. I'm more interested in how the prose works than in her biography. But I can see where the work would elicit strong reactions!

@@thefoxedpage she just sounds like an individual who has no problem doing exactly what more likely than not makes her put to paper what she rails against and does so utilizing very little information regarding the subject that she's picking apart

@@metallica2500 Again--interesting! I'm interested, here, in the fact that I've only read the one book so far. If you have only ever read OUTLINE, she doesn't seem like much of an individual at all! If that makes sense. And she's not picking anything apart. Speaking from the VERY limited position of only having read the one thing, and also being someone who can pretty easily divorce texts from authors, it's interesting that she can feel like that to you and not to me. Literature! Amazing!

I'm so glad!!

I'm so glad you liked the lecture! Elin is so good! I feel like it's good always to have one or two on the shelves waiting for you! I can't wait to read a wintery one. And I REALLY can't wait for the show tomorrow night! Thank you SO MUCH for writing!

@@thefoxedpage ❤️

Thank you so much for this! This is one of the real gifts, I think, of Keegan. That we are left asking questions about the magnitude of things--about shame and abuse and about what happened or didn't! I'm convinced we can read through many times and piece together what has happened--maybe! But that also it might end up being a little inclusive--the question of whether there was definable, palpable abuse going on. But one of the best things I learned in graduate school is that a question like this is also an opportunity to step back (with a writer who is THIS GOOD) and ask yourself: what is she doing with this lack of clarity? In this case (and keep in mind my memory is not great) that 1) we are meant to read our own experience of shame/abuse/neglect/maltreatment into the text. Meaning that I might see this as shame at wetting the bed and someone else may read it as a much "larger" kind of trauma/shame. ALSO, and more importantly, I think we are maybe meant to think about the nature of shame and secrets and abuse. Meaning that the magnitude of the abuse doesn't really matter as much as the way that it really does feel so large to the child. If that makes sense?? It's like, we can parse and debate if there was "actual" abuse, and whether it was physical, emotional, sexual etc. but maybe the point is that all abuse is awful for children and that abuse of any magnitude or kind deserves the kind of healing that she receives that summer. This seems like a bit of a cop out! And maybe doesn't feel definitive. But when debates get serious like this and I'm DYING to know the "answer/reality/truth" in a situation, it's helpful to step back and see that maybe the details aren't the point, but the wider message here: it's hard to be a small/older girl sibling who's sensitive and whose family is under huge stress and that trauma and abuse and shame are ubiquitous and awful and that everyone deserves healing. Wow I really went on a little screed there! haha. I hope this is helpful! And thank you SO MUCH for listening/watching and especially for writing! Xx Kimberly

@@thefoxedpage Thanks

Omg how did I not make the connection with the drip of blood?? Maybe that's a good thing? Ha!

I'm so glad!! xxx

You are so nice to write! Love you, Lis!

Such a good suggestion! Also, I should probably make a foreign novel playlist for the channel... Thanks for writing!

Thank you so much for this! I looked these books. Obviously. And I so appreciate your close listening. I do think part of the gift of McCarthy is the depth of every tiny thing...image, word choice, names, world building. I feel weirdly appreciative that he ended his oeuvre with work that feels like a departure--toward women in some ways! Thank you so much for writing! And listening/watching!

How have I not responded to these comments earlier?? I love the idea of this kind of close analysis and deep thinking. Sometimes when I'm doing quality-checks of random episodes, especially if I haven't heard them in a while, I think of questions and comments for myself and wonder why I didn't slow down and think of it then! It's very gratifying to think that listeners are engaging like this! Thank you so much for writing!

I love Canada! My grandmother lived in Vancouver for a long time. And you are so kind to write these notes! There is soooo much in McCarthy. The owl, the divesting himself--so rich and often glossed over because there is so much to notice. Good work! haha Of course, my memory is so bad I don't remember these small instances. The overlapping character comment is also so astute. I do believe the comparisons to Faulkner and Yoknapatawpha County are good ones. Nothing like a memorable, rounded, fully formed character showing right up in another work! Whew. SO smart. I'm continually surprised--in the best of ways--that the McCarthy podcast is the one that has been listened to most during the year I've been doing this. Clearly I need to wade in to more. Thank you so much for writing!

This made my day! Also, I love the idea, from deep in my graduate school days, that really good writers don't obscure stuff just to obscure stuff. If you are having a hard time keeping track of the characters, or the timeline, it's a good idea to ask if that might be somewhat intentional. The classic example is Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude. People make elaborate family trees because everyone is names Juan buendia or Jose Arcadio buendia etc. The point is that these generations don't change much. Everyone is reliving the same trauma over and over. So if Burns isn't giving names, it's good to think WHY? That anonymity allows things to feel a lot more general. Meaning that this isn't happening to Mary McClare, it's happening to any woman/ever woman in Ireland. It's genius. Plus let's you off the hook! haha

@thefoxedpage very interesting! So, I have to read sentences a couple of times, but other than that, I'm enjoying it. It's a bit slow going, but other than that I'm invested. Oh, and your review gave me so much to think about whilst reading. I'm glad I went ahead and watched. Thanks for sharing your knowledge bc it's sorely needed.

Isn't that the truth!!?? But I really did enjoy thinking this through. Particularly trying to rank the top ten. It seemed so unclear but when I held two in front of me it was SO clear.