I'm sorry I believe a FDR new or the top top people in the government knew this was going to happen. probably were blown away and surprised at the effectiveness of the Japanese in doing what they did. they were counting on it being a lot less worse than it was and also realized that America was not going to get involved in the war unless something like this had happened

I always look forward to your podcasts.

Once again, I learn so much that I didn't know (Admiral King, your tight clamp on the press resulted in my US History teacher in high school saying very little about the war in the Pacific other than a cursory nod to several island battles and a lot of gushing about MacArthur).Our leadership and the enemies' were trained in the 20s and 30s, and thus had to learn before incorporating new technology into their warfighting plans. I wonder how "behind" our current Joint Chiefs and military-industrial complex is, for when we confront the next war. I'm not going to touch on what they are indoctrinating our West Pointers, Annapolis, and USAF Academy students today - you know how "useful" that will be.

1:00:30 I think the answer by both gentlemen to this question is severely lacking. I'd be thrilled to read a reply by them to my approach: I really like the structures and inputs approach that has been shared on this channel in other videos. So looking at relative advantages, we can note how the USA had the Japanese beat in _all_ of these: total population, oil/fuel, steel/aluminum, manufacturing output, finance, and research. Japan had the advantage when it came to experienced air crews, efficient carrier operations, naval night doctrine, and arguably morale/early momentum - but that was it. Keep that in mind. Now, assuming Midway is a total loss for the USA, I'd look at when the Mark 14 issues finally get truly solved. (I don't know the date, the gents will) After that date, Japan *will* fail to resupply their forces on Midway and/or Hawaii. They lack the cargo ships, they lack the ASW doctrine, and US submarines will absolutely tear them apart. And seeing how Guadalcanal went, Japan would probably lose half of its entire navy trying to cling on to Hawaii. The question then is, in between the time that Midway is lost and the Mark 14 is fixed, what could Japan do to Australia? Darwin etc probably get bombed off the map, but a true land invasion is too crazy to pull off - they'd _never_ be able to reach (and take) Sydney, Melbourne, or Adelaide. So perhaps Australia gets cut off from the US for a time; or perhaps ships just have to sail south of New Zealand for safety (making the journey a lot longer, meaning fewer total supplies get through since ships spend more time at sea and less in port loading/unloading). But Australia does not fall. Meanwhile, the US west coast would be kept safe by land-based planes, allowing the US navy to build up their numbers. How or when the USA would eventually take back Hawaii and restore contact to Australia, I don't know. But they would succeed, sooner or later. By then the Guadalcanal airfield would've been finished by the Japanese, and could be a real bloodbath to neutralize (if they built up the same defenses as in Rabaul, for instance). But the Japanese navy would've been greatly diminished trying to delay the retaking of Hawaii, so perhaps Guadalcanal and the whole island hopping campaign could have been done much faster? Every month it took to retake Hawaii would have also meant more ships for the US, while Japan couldn't build nearly as many new vessels - so you'd probably see a massive snowball effect, almost like a dam breaking open, and everything Japanese being swept away out of the Pacific in a flood of American steel and fury. Two side notes: Japan might have had the time to develop ASW techniques in between losing Hawaii and losing Iwo Jima/Okinawa, so perhaps their fleet wouldn't have suffered as badly near the end from US subs. Perhaps the US code breakers would've benefitted a lot from the traffic going to and from Hawaii (but they wouldn't have been able to capture any Japanese subs' code books like at Guadalcanal). So perhaps that's a boon, perhaps it's a wash? PS: the Manhattan project would still be finished in 1945, so perhaps we'd see a nuclear island hopping campaign, or an entire Japanese fleet waylaid by a single B-29...! (although perhaps it would be vulnerable to Japanese carriers - I'm not sure how high Zeroes can fly, and whether B-29s would be safe)

With respect to torpedoes, I think Bill's answer is great, but he neglects the potential spoiling of the invasion of the Philippine's. There were reports of attacks on transports that failed due to torpedoes.

I love your channel. I'm hooked. You may have covered this, but I'm still trying to watch all of the episodes. That said, I would like to see an episode where you discuss how the US used new technology and the resulting development of US CONOPS.

SIMPLE less targets in 44 & 45 than in 42. You think USN aviators were better at Midway?? They were decimated in the dog fights period. We won because they were brave and just kept coming. NROTC started because we were going to go through pilots like paper cups, and we did. Up until 80s, ALL NROTC Cadets had to take an aviator screening test.

That was awesome...thanks

Thanks for the great answers and the time you took for the episode. Your moderator really did a great job. With some of the more technical questions, I expected to hear Drachinifel from the off with his opinion on the topic😆

​​there going to decolonize Russia by colonizing Russia

Great episode 👏

This bit just found a place in my book of favorite quotes. Thank you, Captain Toti... "World War Two proved that there is such a thing as objective evil. Modern day culture would try to convince you that morality is relative and that evil is determined by some subjective human standard, but that’s a lie. The objective standard for good and evil is determined not by the wavering whims of some academic in ivy league, but by our creator. And despite the revisionist history that would try to convince you otherwise, America is a force for objective good in this world."

Damn the torpedoes.

I loved this episode. Thanks!!’

I agree, even if the IJN sunk every damn garbage scow at Midway, we stil just ramp up the shipyards and go on the defensive for 6 months and what, maybe the war lasts 6 months longer at best

Almost 2 hours? Woof! Liked! Already subscribed!

For the US Navy Aviation being less effective in 1944-1945 there's also the volume of anti-aircraft fire that both sides were facing, whether it was effective or not. Early in the war the anti-aircraft weapons wasn't nearly the umbrella to fly through, and pilots on both sides could be more aggressive and make much closer approaches before releasing their weapons. That sort of aggression seen before and during Midway proved to be suicidal for the Japanese pilots in the Guadalcanal campaign. The Japanese learned that lesson and did the best they could to improve their anti-aircraft umbrella. Your statement on the dilution of the aviator pool also dovetails with that, where fewer of the pilots would challenge the anti-aircraft umbrella and thus increase their odds for a hit (until the anti-aircraft fire was eroded).

I would love to hear more about the USS Robin, and what each side learnt from the experience. In the UK we remember thoughts about teaching the USN about fighter dirrection and control and learning some carrier damage control philosophies but what about the US view?

Outstanding as usual guys.

I think the most interesting thing I've learned from your podcast is how much the Navy DIDN'T know about waging war in the beginning of 1942, but they damn sure learned by 1944! Thanks again.

I was really hoping for more on Balao-class bilge pumps. Other than that, great as always.

Not expecting a reply but here's a counterfactual - what if instead of invading Peleliu in Sept. of '44 we had invaded Iwo Jima at that time before it was fully fortified?

Fantastick Episode Gentlemnen.... In its own way almost a recap of the first 200 +episodes! And Major Betgstrom, nice to meet you, look forward to seeing you again soon.

Thank you gentlemen. Once again, I learned a lot. As an aside, Shawn seems to be a very nice fit/addition to the team. Welcome, Shawn! Looking forward to your US Army (and other) input during the coming island hopping campaign. I'd guess quite a few people have no idea the extent to which US Army troops participated in the PTO during WWII. I was guilty of same for too many years.

Great show. QUESTION, for Bill Toti especially, if you do a future show: Granted, you have great sonar officers on subs, but they don’t have brains transplanted from killer whales or dolphins. If there’s a submarine to submarine engagement under water, how the heck do you locate the other vessel? How do you attack it, & avoid getting hit? Do you attack first, giving away your location? Or wait for the enemy sub to do that? This might be common today, but would’ve happened at least occasionally in the diesel-electric era.IIRC, there was a British sub that successfully sunk a German boat near the end of WW-2, maybe in the Baltic? Thanks!

Underwater demolition team . . . WWII navy vet William Hopper ("Paul Drake" of Perry Mason TV fame). Hopper had dark blonde hair before combat, mostly grey by war's end. Briing back the red poppy worn in past decades that symbolized the ultimate sacifice made by U.S. service men and women!

Great show! On the question about the three things done wrong by either side; Japan made fatal mistake attacking Dutch Harbor. As part of the Midway operation that made absolutely no sense. I agree Peleliu was the U.S.’s greatest mistake. That’s my two bit. Again great podcast!

Great show. Great topic. Keep rocking. Best show in the friking world.

Excellent work! When this series wraps up, I’d love to see these guys do the same thing with the WWII Eastern front.

"Some people went to command (submarines in the 1980's ) that should not have went to command." Truer words were never spoken. Captain Toti nails it once again.

Richard Pryor did a bit about how the only Americans the Japanese had met were Californians. He said if they had met Alabamans/Texans etc, they would never have gone to war with us.

Masterful program. Much thanks deserved.

These are good questions, but your answers really make them great!

I always wondered, on ambush , two hours sleep , then switch with your fox hole buddy , and he sleeps. Guys tend to snore, when sleeping. How did soldiers sleep , without giving away their position ?

Thanks guys. Entertaining and informative as always. Little bit disappointed that you didn't get to any Balao class bilge pump questions.

Love all the podcasts, I believe that most of these questions have been answered in previous podcasts. It was nice to have them on this podcast though. Keep up the good work, people are enjoying what you are doing.

I wish I could press the LIKE button harder for this episode. I really enjoyed the format, and all of the lines of thought and questioning the answers to the original question open up. With respect to the loss of USS Wasp, she was built to use up the balance of tonnage the US Navy had left under treaty restrictions, as a kind of red headed step-sister to the Yorktown class. My understanding of her capabilities and vulnerabilities comes from the guide Drach did on her: “Armor over the machinery, and aviation fuel tanks was reduced to save weight, and the torpedo defense system was effectively eliminated, in part due to the desire to operate the same size and number of aircraft as her larger half-sisters.” So, if we agree that Wasp was the worst loss suffered by either side to a submarine launched torpedo attack, that raises the question “Given her compromised torpedo defenses, could she have been deployed differently, in a position where she still could’ve supported the campaign in the Solomons, while not making her home at ‘Torpedo Junction’ or in the middle of ‘Torpedo Alley?’”

Very interesting, thanks.

26:46 And how many more attacks would have been made if the crews had confidence in the torpedos?

Wow a Nole on the show! I spent the first 25 years of my life in Tallahassee florida, proud Lincoln highschool graduate

I can't believe I've never heard or read about the disaster at West Lock. I've been reading about and watching documentaries on WWII since I was 11 in 1999. This disaster isn't just a tragedy. We actually suffered more dead from this than we did taking Kwadjelein.

Thanks!

Why was BB-56 scrapped?

One of the things our navy had to control their tendency to chase the Japanese navy at every opportunity, mostly for the "Ego benefits" of attacking the US navy's principal enemy, the IJN. The WAR MISSION is the primary objective in every operation. Consequently, Spruance's decision to protect the landing forces in the Marianas was by far the correct decision at the time. The Marianas were critical for our planned bombing of Japan so we must consider what might have happened if we had chased the Japanese fleet and through some querk of fate THEY would have won. Our whole warplan could have been upended. Yes, we need the Halsey's, Mitchener's and Patton's, but we also need the Spruance's, Gieger's and Bradley's.

I thought the Corsair had left-handed rivets

1:17 But the Japanese army absorbed lessons on defense and depth to cave fighting to offset the huge firepower advantages of the US.

THANK YOU, Commander Toti. I am humbled. Thank you for mentioning John Basilone. We in NJ are very proud of him.

A wonderful episode, lots of great answers to many really good questions. Looking forward to more such info, Thanks for the [resentation.

To add to the excellent points on the 42 vs 44/45 pilots training levels and focuses don't forget Japanese damage control techniques and AA defense systems were significantly improved by 44/45 as well. The fact their improvements tend to pale against the scale USN advances doesn't remove that fact for the pilots. Ofc you also have the double edged sword of increasingly poor Japanese crew training on particularly newer vessels - but looking at the Kakus survival compared to the early war is enlightening. Also, targets later war were less likely to be carriers - targets were typically more survivable when hit the later you go by design. Enemy always gets a vote.

Carriers named after birds and flying dragons, unless they were converted from other classes of ship hull in which case they often carried the original convention. Battleships, after provinces Battlecruisers, after mountains Cruisers, after rivers Light cruisers, after prefectures Destroyers, after weather phenomena (wave, wind, snow, etc.)